What has happened to society?

[Baron Kurtz]

Are we suggesting that attaining a specific age is worthy of respect?

For one, I can say that one of my grandmothers was a vicious, spiteful old cur, less worthy of respect than anyone i've encountered. A woman who used her infirmity as an excuse to belittle and torment anyone she encountered. Is this person worthy of respect? Just because she's old?

How can you respect someone who doesn't respect you? Surely actions, not age, is/are worthy of respect.

bk

(and i use "respect" not in the sense that the roaming bands of feral London youth use it - that is, abject deference - but in the traditional sense of general civility)

 

[Foofoogal]

I'm pretty sure there were tramp, whores & women with no manners back then too.

Wow, if that is not a can of worms. lol
To find a good woman you have to be a good man and vice versa.
Since the dawn of time there have been "good men and women" and "bad ones." [bad]

 

[Foofoogal]

but in the traditional sense of general civility

Kind of lost me here. Do you mean you were not generally civil to your grandmother?

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Double Baloney!!

Baloney! I really see your point about aging, behavior, etc. but experience in life demonstrate that anyone who uses that excuse is just looking to validate their bad behavior.

No 15 year old(whatever juvenille age) has earned the right to have their respect "granted" to most of their seniors. That is obnoxious and selfish talk. Children do not make the rules.

I am not saying you are engaging in it.

Edit: Just to clarify. I am reflecting more on the experience Foofoogal had than you specifically. I could have quoted better.

A great many young people haven't learned to respect themselves yet, I wouldn't expect them to have any respect for others - particularly self-assured adult strangers. (additional three characters added to make this message long enough to be accepted by the program!)

-dixon cannon

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Kind of lost me here. Do you mean you were not generally civil to your grandmother?

Until i reached the age when i realised she was not a respectable human being, regardless of her pious spouting. After that i had no dealings with her. She was less worthy of respect than a total stranger. I do not mourn her passing. (and i really am quite easy-going. She was a piece of work.)


IMO, a person you don't know deserves the basic level of respect. Someone you know - independent of age or relation - who shows you no respect, or even worse, does not deserve your respect.

bk

p.s. yes, I understand the above seems Rumsfeldian. i tried to keep it untangled, honestly.

 

[surely]

Surely, you jest!

you got it: I surely do!

Dollydaydream: I actually agree with you! But the "nice" people here don't like demeaning words like drivel. Now something witty like verbarrhea may sneak past the editors.

 

[Brad Bowers]

IMO, a person you don't know deserves the basic level of respect. Someone you know - independent of age or relation - who shows you no respect, or even worse, does not deserve your respect.

bk

p.s. yes, I understand the above seems Rumsfeldian. i tried to keep it untangled, honestly.

In others words, respect someone until you know better.

Brad

 

[Baron Kurtz]

unless knowing better involves unknown unknowns. then you're in a world of trouble.

bk

 

[Foofoogal]

I cannot answer without getting into religion so will not.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

other than my mention of my grandmothers "pious spouting" (i'm showing my leftist roots!), i fail to see what religion has to do with the matter at hand.

bk

 

[RondoHatton]

What happened to everyone's manners?

The attitude prevailing seems to be "This is MY turf (the entire world), F*** you, I'll wear baggy shorts, cap on backwards like a cartoon child, I'll run red lights, what's a deadline?, hey, I'M on the phone!, I'll go as fast/slow as I wanna, aren't I pretty, what are you looking at", etc etc etc.

Cancel my rhumba lesson!

Our city fathers and muthas densify, densify, densify then wring their hands about increased crime, ohno, we can't outlaw GANGS, we'd better outlaw GUNS...

 

[AmateisGal]

Here's something that truly shocked me.

My teenage stepson told me that his student teacher pulled him and another kid out of class yesterday for messing around. While talking to them, he said, "You GD (I won't spell it out, but think you know what I mean) kids are this close (and he then used his fingers to illustrate HOW close) to driving me insane."

Without missing a beat, my son's friend said, "Oh yeah? Well, your (male anatomy) is this big!" And he imitated his teacher's whole "measuring" thing with the fingers.

To my surprise and quite frankly, HORROR, the teacher began to laugh and the incident was forgotten.

There are three things that truly bother me about this. One, that the teacher would cuss like that in front of his students, two, that my son's friend had the AUDACITY to say that to a teacher, and three, that there was no punishment involved for either party.

I once told a girl (probably 10 or 12) to quit throwing rocks at a moving train. She shot me a petulant scowl, informed me that she was doing nothing wrong, then turned her back on me and continued throwing rocks.

 

[CharlesB]

Here's something that truly shocked me.

My teenage stepson told me that his student teacher pulled him and another kid out of class yesterday for messing around. While talking to them, he said, "You GD (I won't spell it out, but think you know what I mean) kids are this close (and he then used his fingers to illustrate HOW close) to driving me insane."

Without missing a beat, my son's friend said, "Oh yeah? Well, your (male anatomy) is this big!" And he imitated his teacher's whole "measuring" thing with the fingers.

To my surprise and quite frankly, HORROR, the teacher began to laugh and the incident was forgotten.

There are three things that truly bother me about this. One, that the teacher would cuss like that in front of his students, two, that my son's friend had the AUDACITY to say that to a teacher, and three, that there was no punishment involved for either party.

I once told a girl (probably 10 or 12) to quit throwing rocks at a moving train. She shot me a petulant scowl, informed me that she was doing nothing wrong, then turned her back on me and continued throwing rocks.

I briefly taught at a very poor middle school that had kids up to 14 in it, in the ghettos of north Camden, NJ. It wasnt about money but about making a difference. As the new guy, I always got the worst of the worst. When faced with going insane and them being unruly I stopped the class and addressed them.

What I said was this...

"I'm the new guy, I'm not from your city and never grew up on dangerous streets. I know Im not like you and you look at me as different. I also know that with no track record here, you really have no grounds by which to trust me or show me any more respect than is necessary here at a bare minimum. You guys are 13 or 14 yrs old, by now the idea of "respect" has started to assemble itself in your minds and I know that. Here is the deal,I dont know you either and Im an adult so based on your behaviour I could show you no respect because you're really still kids. Instead, I will show you respect. Im not your friend or your peer and I am an adult unlike you all, obviously. That being said, I will talk to you like adults and treat you like one for all that entails if you are willing to show me the same respect and courtesy that I will show you...

I left it at that and those kids were never trouble to me again

 

[Foofoogal]

other than my mention of my grandmothers "pious spouting" (i'm showing my leftist roots!), i fail to see what religion has to do with the matter at hand.

Truly, I am not judging you as I don't know you or your grandmother and only you could know.

I knew a man once that hated life period. The nicer you were to him the meaner he got so I understand.

I just meant that the Bible which is my religion says to honor your mother and father which comes with a promise of long life if you do.
It doesn't say only if they are nice or angels. I would think this would apply to grandparents as well.
As I truly want to live to be 109 I take it quite literally though all of my parents and grandparents are now gone.

 

[Paisley]

Re: respecting the young

It's important to respect young people in dance class. That teenager with the braces might be your teacher.

 

[Foofoogal]

I think I am getting way off track here but I do want to state I do love young people and feel very sorry for them. Just watched Oprah with Bill Cosby and it was all about this subject.
I always say be careful how you talk about that young pregnant teen for instance. You never know if one day it may be your grandchild.
I don't know what the remedy is and it seems some don't think there is even a need for a remedy. I just pray like I said before the pendulum will swing back the other way some and soon.
How low do we go is still the ?

A great many young people haven't learned to respect themselves yet, I wouldn't expect them to have any respect for others - particularly self-assured adult strangers.

I do think this is really true.
Nana signing off for now.

 

[blacklagoon]

A good example of how times change,for the worse in my opinion,is the eurovision song contest.when it began,it was a strange yet wonderful insight into other countries,their music and their cultural dress.now,every country enters a group or singer,and they all go out of their way to be rock/punk in some way shape or form.they dress in leathers and there is no individuality anymore.the songs,instead of being about their country,culture and people,revolve around the latest goth/punk/rock crazes.before,people called it cheesey and corny,yet,that is how it has become again.when i saw the entrants this year,i saw the usual aggressive new images and hobbies they have,and it made me feel pretty sick.I use to love the individuality of mary hopkins,abba,cliff richard and a string of unknown amateurs.nowadays,all entrants are trained to a professional degree,and it is like watching a video.
Gone are the days when countries smiled and sung of a meadow,romancing a lady and being a peaceful friend to all.now,all they want to sing about is being a dominant aggressor and shove their studded wrist band tattooed fist into the camera.unlike the old days,i have noticed how every contestant knows exactly which camera is on at which exact moment a word in their song is spoken.it has become like pop idol etc with simon cowell.
The people behind the eurovision song contest forced the change,by demanding this new format,and insisting bands followed suit.coupled with films,all children will grow up only seeing snarling aggressive violent role models on the screen.dignity,politeness and respect is slowly/( superman speed of light quickly ), being replaced by aggressive,confrontational insulting attitudes,as the way individuals must be to progress forward on this modern age.

 

[ShortClara]

Rather than me earning a teenager's respect, which may be difficult as I walk down the street or pass them in Sears, it perhaps would be better that they showed me respect unless I show myself to not deserve it. The concept of only showing respect to someone who earns it is an excuse for bad behavior. In fact wouldn't it be even classier to show respect even if the other person didn't deserve it?

If you show respect to someone who doesn't deserve it, it's a lie and I don't like to perpetuate the lie. Now, I will show basic human manners and kindness to all, but true respect is only ever earned from me, just like love. If you love or respect all, it's meaningless, like giving a prize to every kid in the class. It's all in how you look at respect, and to me it's hard to earn and sacred. I'm nice, decent and kind to all though (well, I sure try to be!) Maybe that's what you meant, or not

I'm an Ayn Rand-ian, so there you go

 

[surely]

ShortClara, have you read Gurdjieff? He fits nicely with Rand.

 

[reetpleat]

If you show respect to someone who doesn't deserve it, it's a lie and I don't like to perpetuate the lie. Now, I will show basic human manners and kindness to all, but true respect is only ever earned from me, just like love. If you love or respect all, it's meaningless, like giving a prize to every kid in the class. It's all in how you look at respect, and to me it's hard to earn and sacred. I'm nice, decent and kind to all though (well, I sure try to be!) Maybe that's what you meant, or not

I'm an Ayn Rand-ian, so there you go

As far as I am concerned, every human being deserves respect because they are hum an beings. I don't treat people with disrespect just because they don't treat me or others well. I am not give them any particular undesved special consideration. But often, the lest of us is the one that needs a little respect the most.