What Does The FL Think of So-called Black Friday?

[Harp]

If I can scare some ambition, shave and shower, grab a sweater and Gloverall coat, an omelet and coffee await
at my favorite spoon, along with beautiful colleens who sweeten the sunshine; then off to the neighborhood bookshop
for any and all of Doris Lessing; particularly The Golden Notebook. The shop Black Friday discount is irrelevant to the quest.

...if I can only get started

 

[sheeplady]

Apologies if my comment on capitalism breaks the Lounge's rule on politics, but it doesn't really seem possible to comment on this thread without straying into politics.

I read this interesting blog post about capitalism, consumerism, and Black Friday. I thought it was very interesting the point the author makes about capitalism being different than consumerism. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-walsh/shopping-on-thanksgiving_b_4310109.html

The one thing I do know is a lot of minimalist back to the landers who strongly support the free market but who hate excessive consumption.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I read this interesting blog post about capitalism, consumerism, and Black Friday. I thought it was very interesting the point the author makes about capitalism being different than consumerism. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-walsh/shopping-on-thanksgiving_b_4310109.html

The one thing I do know is a lot of minimalist back to the landers who strongly support the free market but who hate excessive consumption.

I think Two Types makes a good point though -- and I'm trying to avoid politicizing this as best I can. "Marketism" in modern society really does seem to have taken on the trappings of a religion.

It has its equivalent of a god -- The Market.

It has its equivalent of the Holy Spirit -- "The Invisible Hand."

It has its devils -- Karl Marx, Ralph Nader, the Anticonsumerist movement, etc.

It has its apostles and theologians -- Adam Smith, Milton Friedman, etc. -- and it has its Sacred Scriptures, which are quoted as prooftexts: The Wealth of Nations, Capitalism and Freedom, etc. It even has its fringe extremists -- Ms. Rand comes to mind.

And it has its Holy Rituals, in which believers are encouraged to sacrifice their personal wealth to The Market in exchange for the blessings of promised Growth and Prosperity for all. The believers must demonstrate their faith over and over again, without ceasing, lest the Wrath of the Market cast them into the Pits Of Recession.

And now it has its High Holiday, Black Friday, where the High Priests of the faith, the Boys From Marketing, encourage all the faithful to spend, spend, spend so that The Market may prosper in the year to come.

If that ain't a religion, brothers and sisters, I don't know what is. "Happy Holidays."

 

[Lily Powers]

With all the knock-down, drag-out, fisticuffs among shoppers in some of the retail stores, I think it would be more appropriately named "Black and Blue Friday."

 

[Gregg Axley]

With all the knock-down, drag-out, fisticuffs among shoppers in some of the retail stores, I think it would be more appropriately named "Black and Blue Friday."

:eusa_clap

I had a brother in law stand in line last night, for a PS4. Even in a small town it was a bit crowded at the local walmart (which is a small one btw). He was given a wristband and asked to come back. He did, got his place in line, and bought one of these systems. The problem (he said) was exiting the store after purchasing it.
People wouldn't let him out, because they were just crowding everywhere. And you want to do this to save some money or time???
On the plus side, it wouldn't be a black and blue friday for him, because a former marine that is
6'6 and 340lbs doesn't get pushed around easily.
If he was in my town, which is a major city, the crowds would be worse, and the crowds in my city have no manners, or morals. Which is why I purchase my items online and have them shipped to my doorstep.
I have yet to stand in a store (black friday or not) and brave crowds for a deal. Everything I wear, electronics, etc all come from places online. They have actual stores, but not in my city, and why get out with the crowds that shove and scream, cough and sneeze, if I don't have to?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Radio Five here is talking about black Friday right now. Scrums and free-for-all's in Walmart-owned ASDA superstores when items were put on sale at 8 AM today. A disabled lady in the Belfast store knocked over trampled and broken arm. Huge stores with massive queues at opening time trying to buy one of only 16 Playstation 4 consoles in the store.

I think Two Types makes a good point though -- and I'm trying to avoid politicizing this as best I can. "Marketism" in modern society really does seem to have taken on the trappings of a religion.

It has its equivalent of a god -- The Market.

It has its equivalent of the Holy Spirit -- "The Invisible Hand."

It has its devils -- Karl Marx, Ralph Nader, the Anticonsumerist movement, etc.

It has its apostles and theologians -- Adam Smith, Milton Friedman, etc. -- and it has its Sacred Scriptures, which are quoted as prooftexts: The Wealth of Nations, Capitalism and Freedom, etc. It even has its fringe extremists -- Ms. Rand comes to mind.

And it has its Holy Rituals, in which believers are encouraged to sacrifice their personal wealth to The Market in exchange for the blessings of promised Growth and Prosperity for all. The believers must demonstrate their faith over and over again, without ceasing, lest the Wrath of the Market cast them into the Pits Of Recession.

And now it has its High Holiday, Black Friday, where the High Priests of the faith, the Boys From Marketing, encourage all the faithful to spend, spend, spend so that The Market may prosper in the year to come.

If that ain't a religion, brothers and sisters, I don't know what is. "Happy Holidays."

Also note the vast number of True-Believer evangelists and pursuers of witches who roam our communities, seeking to hunt out the heretic non-believers.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

You know, when you think about it, Black Friday definitely hits five of the classical "Seven Deadly Sins" -- Wrath, Greed, Gluttony, Envy, and Pride. You might arguably put Lust in there too.

If they can think of a gimmick to appeal to Sloth, they'll have hit the Jackpot of Human Degeneracy. Maybe a knockdown midnight sale on mattresses?

What's interesting is that the typical modern interpretation of "Sloth" as equivalent to "laziness" is not really accurate. In fact, the traditional interpretation of Sloth is a lack of passion or love for things that a really important, primarily God and His kingdom. It's basically a person who's dead inside and has no fervor for anything and no love for God above all else. I'd say you could shoehorn that one into Black Friday without too much effort.

By far though, Boxing Day is even stupider. The day after Christmas, the day after everyone just got a whole bunch of gifts, we're going to have mad sales so everyone can go out and buy even more stuff.

I make a point of calling Boxing Day by its traditional name, St. Stephen's day, whenever possible.

 

[Foxer55]

I think Black Friday was originally a novel if not positive phenomenon for businesses particularly the mom & pop shops. Just think, many years ago it was a time for people to go out and enjoy the festive holiday times, meet some friends, have some fun, and get a few early gifts for Christmas. I can recall when I was young going into center city Philadelphia with my mother and aunts to the BIG department stores like Strawbridges and Wanamakers. It was fun! I would ogle all the toy trains and cool stuff and they would all coo and shriek over various finds they wouldn't have seen otherwise. Sometimes my friends and I ourselves would take the "El" into center city and roam around the stores all day long being overwhelmed by all the neet stuff for kids.

Today, I'm not sure I would even want to go into center city Philly. Black Friday has become a focal point of greed, excess, impoverishment, crime, chip-on-the-shoulder, somebody-owes-me, I-deserve-it, resentful, angry, victim centered culture.

 

[ButteMT61]

Read today's news headlines. Nothing more need be said.

 

[Two Types]

I think Two Types makes a good point though -- and I'm trying to avoid politicizing this as best I can. "Marketism" in modern society really does seem to have taken on the trappings of a religion.

It has its equivalent of a god -- The Market.

It has its equivalent of the Holy Spirit -- "The Invisible Hand."

It has its devils -- Karl Marx, Ralph Nader, the Anticonsumerist movement, etc.

It has its apostles and theologians -- Adam Smith, Milton Friedman, etc. -- and it has its Sacred Scriptures, which are quoted as prooftexts: The Wealth of Nations, Capitalism and Freedom, etc. It even has its fringe extremists -- Ms. Rand comes to mind.

And it has its Holy Rituals, in which believers are encouraged to sacrifice their personal wealth to The Market in exchange for the blessings of promised Growth and Prosperity for all. The believers must demonstrate their faith over and over again, without ceasing, lest the Wrath of the Market cast them into the Pits Of Recession.

And now it has its High Holiday, Black Friday, where the High Priests of the faith, the Boys From Marketing, encourage all the faithful to spend, spend, spend so that The Market may prosper in the year to come.

If that ain't a religion, brothers and sisters, I don't know what is. "Happy Holidays."

Blimey, you've thought about it a lot more deeply than me!

Well done!

 

[gear-guy]

+1 Butte

 

[Alice Blue]

Well put, and this reminds me of Harvey Cox's famous 1999 essay "The Market As God." http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1999/03/the-market-as-god/306397/

I think Two Types makes a good point though -- and I'm trying to avoid politicizing this as best I can. "Marketism" in modern society really does seem to have taken on the trappings of a religion.

It has its equivalent of a god -- The Market.

It has its equivalent of the Holy Spirit -- "The Invisible Hand."

It has its devils -- Karl Marx, Ralph Nader, the Anticonsumerist movement, etc.

It has its apostles and theologians -- Adam Smith, Milton Friedman, etc. -- and it has its Sacred Scriptures, which are quoted as prooftexts: The Wealth of Nations, Capitalism and Freedom, etc. It even has its fringe extremists -- Ms. Rand comes to mind.

And it has its Holy Rituals, in which believers are encouraged to sacrifice their personal wealth to The Market in exchange for the blessings of promised Growth and Prosperity for all. The believers must demonstrate their faith over and over again, without ceasing, lest the Wrath of the Market cast them into the Pits Of Recession.

And now it has its High Holiday, Black Friday, where the High Priests of the faith, the Boys From Marketing, encourage all the faithful to spend, spend, spend so that The Market may prosper in the year to come.

If that ain't a religion, brothers and sisters, I don't know what is. "Happy Holidays."

 

[dh66]

Well said Lizzie

Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2

 

[TimeWarpWife]

Back in the 70s, my mom, grandmother, a cousin, and I would go Christmas shopping the day after Thanksgiving. Back then it wasn't called "Black Friday" and there were more people than on a normal Friday out shopping that day. But, I think it was more because people's jobs gave them Thursday and Friday off as paid holidays - my parents got both days off - so many decided to do some early Christmas shopping. I have fond memories of it, but then people weren't getting assaulted and killed by other shoppers to save $10 on a TV. People were more hospitable and polite back then. You couldn't pay me to go out and shop on "Black Friday" now days anymore than I'd go out on New Year's Eve. I stay home where it's relatively safe. And btw, I believe Capitalism is a good thing, unfortunately, like all things there are some people who give it a bad name.

 

[Foxer55]

Based on what I have noticed by the stores, I think there is a lot of price gouging going on right now. The economy sucks and this is probably going to be a bad, bad season for retailers so they are trying to hype "Sales!" as much as they can. Anybody with an ounce of brains will just keep their money in their pocket until after the holidays. I also think that since the economy has been sooo bad, there has not been much production going on so the inventory is mostly leftover and unwanted junk. Ha! Just think, "Sales!" for a lot of junk.

 

[vitanola]

It has its apostles and theologians -- Adam Smith, Milton Friedman, etc. -- and it has its Sacred Scriptures, which are quoted as prooftexts: The Wealth of Nations...

Miss Maine, Adam Smith wrote some pretty good stuff. Of course his greater work, "The Theory of Moral Sentiments" is largely unknown to modern free market absolutists.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Miss Maine, Adam Smith wrote some pretty good stuff. Of course his greater work, "The Theory of Moral Sentiments" is largely unknown to modern free market absolutists.

Obviously a deuterocanonical text.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I don't have a problem with people shopping respectfully and responsibly any day of the year. The deals make things perhaps out of reach for some people affordable. There are lots of mom and pop businesses that rely on holiday sales. I'm against the mob mentality and people acting like animals but not everyone acts that way. Many Black Friday deals are now online so that you don't have to line up in the middle of the night.

As for working on Thanksgiving, not everyone celebrates it just like not everyone celebrates Christmas. Also, not everyone has a family to be with, or if they do they'd rather be working. People working on holidays often get time and a half and some want that. When I worked at LL Bean many years ago there were lots of people who wanted to work on Christmas.

I don't think anyone should be forced to work on ANY holiday, and that includes Jewish holidays if they are observant.

 

[Foxer55]

LizzieMaine,

I think Two Types makes a good point though -- and I'm trying to avoid politicizing this as best I can. "Marketism" in modern society really does seem to have taken on the trappings of a religion.

It has its equivalent of a god -- The Market.

It has its equivalent of the Holy Spirit -- "The Invisible Hand."

It has its devils -- Karl Marx, Ralph Nader, the Anticonsumerist movement, etc.

It has its apostles and theologians -- Adam Smith, Milton Friedman, etc. -- and it has its Sacred Scriptures, which are quoted as prooftexts: The Wealth of Nations, Capitalism and Freedom, etc. It even has its fringe extremists -- Ms. Rand comes to mind.

And it has its Holy Rituals, in which believers are encouraged to sacrifice their personal wealth to The Market in exchange for the blessings of promised Growth and Prosperity for all. The believers must demonstrate their faith over and over again, without ceasing, lest the Wrath of the Market cast them into the Pits Of Recession.

And now it has its High Holiday, Black Friday, where the High Priests of the faith, the Boys From Marketing, encourage all the faithful to spend, spend, spend so that The Market may prosper in the year to come.

If that ain't a religion, brothers and sisters, I don't know what is. "Happy Holidays."

The problem with this view of the situation is The Boys In Marketing are gods because someone turned them into gods. I certainly don't blame The Boys In Marketing. If there is blame to be cast its in the direction of their creators.

 

[vintageTink]

Do the boys in marketing look like Don Draper?