What did your grandparents pack for personal protection in the Golden Era?

[carebear]

Thanks, that is interesting. I'll keep an eye on that bill. However, it's only a temporary measure, and it doesn't seem that it would lift the ban on selling handguns or transporting them into the city. Someone like me who doesn't already own a handgun (illegally) in the District would have to break the law in order to take advantage of this measure.

Just another instance of the inanity of the DC government. Pass a law that both legitimizes the actions of people already breaking the law and encourages others to break other laws so they can take advantage of it.

Check out Parker v. DC

Assuming the US District Court doesn't engage in tortuous readings, DC's ban should be struck down as unConstitutional fairly soon. At the very least Parker will go to the Supremes and should have a solid chance at a win there.

DC's attorney's have been treated like red-headed stepchildren by plaintiff's attorneys and in questioning by the judges. I'm only a legal dilettante (crim.justice student with unfinished BA) but I've seen better lawyering on TV.

 

[up196]

From a similar thread about 2 years ago:

A 1930 vintage Colt's Detective Special (square butt) in a Lawrence #7 shoulder holster. The straps criss-cross in back, unlike more recent copies which loop around the shoulder above the holster and have a cloth strap going around the other arm and up behind the neck.


The same revolver, out, with the padded "C-clamp" for the cylinder visible.


A 1933 vintage Detective Special (first year for the round butt) with an Audley belt holster patented in 1914, having the metal trigger latch:


Same as above, illustrating how the latch catches the front of the trigger guard to secure the gun in the holster.


An Audley concealment holster, 1914 type, for the Colt's Pocket Hammerless.


The same as above, illustrating the belt loop. Pistol is a .380 made in 1921; ideal for meetings with Major Strasser.


Two "rear pocket" holsters, the top one is from Greenblatt's in New York, bottom one is an Audley (1907 patent) holding a .32 S&W Hand Ejector. Guns are held in place by a "lip" of leather which catches the cylinder and have to be twisted, grip toward the body, to allow drawing.


The Greenblatt holster in the pocket holding a Colt's Army Special, where it would be concealed by the suit coat or Police Uniform jacket. The slot just below the top of the holster is for a strip of leather, missing here, which would come down and attach to the button on the uniform pants.


The Colt's Army Special shown above was made in 1922. For any who are railroad buffs, it belonged to the Union Pacific Railroad.


I don't have a Berns-Martin type, but both the belt (the "Speed Draw") and shoulder models (the "Muzzle Up Shoulder Holster") are now made by Rusty Sherrick. His web site is www.c-rusty.com

 

[Rooster]

So, it's not a terribly uncommon sight to see some little blue haired old lady plunk down a side arm while looking for her checkbook at the grocery counter.

Ah, if only the rest of the country were Texas, it would be a much more pleasant place to live!:eusa_clap

 

[Stinchcomb]

Hey, Rooster, glad to see you here!

I'm a dyed in the wool S&W man.

My absolute favorite gun is the brand new S&W model 22 .45acp at the top.

Other than the 681, I don't own ANY gun that isn't "vintage" or at least "classically styled".

If you want old-fashioned style holsters, you're pretty well stuck with El Paso Saddlery (as far as I have been able to find). Of course, if you have to be "stuck" with anyone, EP saddlery is a good one to be stuck with! I just ordered a 1920 "Tom Threepersons" holster for the big N frame. I have a crossdraw one for my .38 masterpiece.

Wow, that Model 22 at the top would have been my guess as to the true antique in this pic. It looks right out of the 1930's. I might have to look at one of those for me. I'm a .45 ACP & Long Colt fan myself.

For classic holsters I would agree. El Paso Saddlery is who made all of my Cowboy action shooting holsters including my favorite, "Doc Holiday" cross draw. Their price and quality are outstanding.

The only true classic/antique firearms I own are a 1892 Smith & Wesson .38 Safety Hammerless nickel finish. Pictured here and a 1941 Enfield .303. Both are still excellent shooters. The rest of my collection is modern remakes of classics.

 

[Rooster]

The actual peer-reviewed studies show that concealed handguns are used by law-abiding citizens in the prevention of crime hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of times a year. Note that a successful use includes the draw or presentation of the firearm without a shot being fired or anyone injured at all, just a crime prevented. You can check it out yourself.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

The records of concealed carry, now legal in one form or another in 48 states in the union (for decades for some, but most since the mid-80s, two of which actually require no permit at all for law-abiding citizens - VT and AK) show criminal usage (which includes accidental or mistaken shootings) at less than 1% of permit holders. Similar to the numbers for police, for what it's worth. Training is not required nor uniform in all of those 48 states and yet the numbers are consistently low across the board. There's also no evidence that concealed carry permit holders act in any more careless or reckless way in terms of where they go or how they behave while armed. Again, folks who carry legally, knowing the legal and moral burden involved, statistically apparently tend to be more peaceable and cautious than those who live life never considering such things.

Even if all that weren't the case, you probably and hopefully would never need to use a legally carried weapon, heck, even most cops don't, but that's not the point. The point is that you can't predict trouble and if you ever do need to defend yourself with lethal force, you need that weapon badly and there's nothing else that will do the job.

Thank you Matthew for posting that info. I knew it to be the case, but had no time to look up the info on the net.
I know many people who carry, both legal and illegal. None of them are criminals or thugs, and none of them have ever gotten into any trouble because they carry.
I personally feel it's a personal choice. If you feel that no one will ever cause you any physical harm and don't feel the need to carry more power to you. If you feel the opposite, more power to you too.

 

[Rooster]

Thanks up196 for all the gun and holster pictures. I learn something new every day!:eusa_clap

 

[Rooster]

Hey, Rooster, glad to see you here!

I'm a dyed in the wool S&W man.

My absolute favorite gun is the brand new S&W model 22 .45acp at the top.

Other than the 681, I don't own ANY gun that isn't "vintage" or at least "classically styled".

If you want old-fashioned style holsters, you're pretty well stuck with El Paso Saddlery (as far as I have been able to find). Of course, if you have to be "stuck" with anyone, EP saddlery is a good one to be stuck with! I just ordered a 1920 "Tom Threepersons" holster for the big N frame. I have a crossdraw one for my .38 masterpiece.

Hey Chris, what's the recoil like on that S&W M22? I'm not a big fan of recoil having carpel tunnel and tennis elbow. I like .38 special and 9mm, these don't aggravate my occupational induced maladies as bad as my 1911 does.

 

[jph712]

I've stumbled across a nice Remington-Rand 1911 Govt model, mfg 1943 that i picked up for a song....and I'm thinking about having a local gunleather guy make me a 1950's style shoulder holster.


Have you seen the Bruce Willis movie "Last Man Standing"? His character carries two 1911s in shoulder rigs. Cool looking film set in Prohibition Era. At one point I knew the source of the holsters, will look around and see if I can't find it again.

I too have a 1943 Remington-Rand 1911A1, I bet I paid less than you seeing as I've had mine for 20+ years. Mine was made in April of '43 according to the serial number. How about yours?

JPH712

 

[Fatdutchman]

The model 22 is sort-of a copy of the "1950 military" model revolvers (which were later given the model number designations). Actually, the original 1950 .45acp's did not have the shrouded ejector rod, but the "sister guns", the .44 special military, and the .38-44 Outdoorsman did.

My particular piece shoots VERY well. It is well made and finished. I do NOT like the stupid little lock on the side (no one does), and I have serously considered removing it and filling the hole, but then I'd have to have it reblued, since I can't do that. I have since replaced the grips. I can shoot it with the small original hadle, but my long fingers cause me to get rapped in the knuckle by the triggerguard. Plus, I can't get a consistent grip on the gun. I got some cocobolo "retro target" grips from Ahrends. (yeah, I know, I "should" be able to make my own grips....have you ever made a set of wraparound S&W grips? It's a nightmare. Each panel has to be precisely inlet to three different levels, matching the frame, and each other....I've done it a couple of times before, and don't care to do it again! The .38 Masterpiece has fingergroove grips of curly walut that i made for it. Ahrends charges $60. Well worth it!) Now, I had to knock off the sharp edge on the left side of the grip where the speedloader cut out is, since I can't have the sharp edge against my thumb, which required refinishing. Well, I didn't know before that cocobolo is one of those stinkin' oily woods like rosewood that are almost impossible to finish, so I just had to shellac it and wax it, which is fine, but doesn't exactly bring out the color and life of the wood...

Rooster, I don't think it kicks much (if any) more than my .38! A revolver fits my hands far better than any automatic does. The big Smith is much easier for me to handle than my .45 auto.

I don't think I had ever handled a big N frame gun before this one, and the first impression I got was how huge the cylinder is!!! It's like a soup can. After handling the gun for a while and getting used to it, I then picked up my .22 Masterpiece and it looked so tiny!!!

This particular gun is the "Thunder Ranch" model 22, which was made in a small run last year. There are a few distributors that may still have a few. I found one at Davidson's and had my local dealer order it for me. I doubt they have any left now. Lew Horton I think has some still. They are coming out with a new run of this gun sometime this year, along with a "1917", and a "model 21" .44 special (still with that hideous round butt...), which are to be had in blued, nickel, or a "case hardened" frame. They're not out yet, but they are supposed to be sometime this year.

The .38 Masterpiece is from the '70's probably, and is virtually brand new. I also have a model 10 probably from the '70's (tapered barrel...I hate heavy barrels). The model 17 6" .22 is probably also from the 70's. The .22 Masterpiece is an old five screw. My grandfather's gun. He traded a .410 pump shotgun for this gun when I was a teenager. I have a nickel .22 kit gun that was my grandfather's. It's an old one from the 50's with the flat thumbpiece. At the moment, it's sightless...I haven't gotten around to installing new ones yet.

 

[Les Gillis]

Vintage Style Shoulder Rigs

I have an Untouchables style shoulder rig for a S&W M&P from A.E. Nelson Leather. It's a spring retention holster with crossed leather straps. It's just like Robert Stack wore in the Untouchables on TV. They can make one for almost anything. The one I use for my M&P was actually made for a P-08 Luger; but the M&P fits in just fine.

I've just ordered a new one for a S&W Model 21. It's not in yet. They don't have them listed on their website; but it's a bargain for $66.00. You just have to call or email. A guy in my club spent a ton of cash having a Bruce Willis style twin 1911 style rig made and another guy in the club had A.E. Nelson make a twin "Untouchables" rig for $125.00. I can post a picture of mine with my M&P later tonight.

http://nelsonleather.com/index.html

 

[rongoms]

I've stumbled across a nice Remington-Rand 1911 Govt model, mfg 1943 that i picked up for a song....and I'm thinking about having a local gunleather guy make me a 1950's style shoulder holster.


Have you seen the Bruce Willis movie "Last Man Standing"? His character carries two 1911s in shoulder rigs. Cool looking film set in Prohibition Era. At one point I knew the source of the holsters, will look around and see if I can't find it again.

I too have a 1943 Remington-Rand 1911A1, I bet I paid less than you seeing as I've had mine for 20+ years. Mine was made in April of '43 according to the serial number. How about yours?

JPH712

March '43 (my birthday month too, it's an Omen!)

I only paid $450, so io'm not feelign too bad. ;-)

 

[Les Gillis]

S&W 21

The S&W 21s in .44 Special are out. I picked up one at a gun show a few months ago in blue. They've had a Thunder Ranch version out for sometime in .44 Special. It has a gold logo. The one I found didn't. Yes, it does have the "hideous round butt." It was just such a deal. I'm looking into some conversion grips that would make it look like the post war square butt.

 

[Atticus Finch]

The actual peer-reviewed studies show that concealed handguns are used by law-abiding citizens in the prevention of crime hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of times a year. Note that a successful use includes the draw or presentation of the firearm without a shot being fired or anyone injured at all, just a crime prevented. You can check it out yourself.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

The records of concealed carry, now legal in one form or another in 48 states in the union (for decades for some, but most since the mid-80s, two of which actually require no permit at all for law-abiding citizens - VT and AK) show criminal usage (which includes accidental or mistaken shootings) at less than 1% of permit holders. Similar to the numbers for police, for what it's worth. Training is not required nor uniform in all of those 48 states and yet the numbers are consistently low across the board. There's also no evidence that concealed carry permit holders act in any more careless or reckless way in terms of where they go or how they behave while armed. Again, folks who carry legally, knowing the legal and moral burden involved, statistically apparently tend to be more peaceable and cautious than those who live life never considering such things.

Even if all that weren't the case, you probably and hopefully would never need to use a legally carried weapon, heck, even most cops don't, but that's not the point. The point is that you can't predict trouble and if you ever do need to defend yourself with lethal force, you need that weapon badly and there's nothing else that will do the job.

Hi Carebear and All,

Thank you for posting that link. I have long wondered if there are not many instances of folks thwarting a would-be criminal by displaying a firearm. I would also suspect that most such instances would go unreported.

Of course, by the time a firearms case comes to my attention, normally things have already gone to hell in a handbasket. So my views on packing weapons my be a bit skewed by the cases I see in court versus all those that never make it to a criminal docket.

Atticus

 

[Fatdutchman]

The Thunder Ranch model 21 was horrible, with that ugly gold crap on the sideplate. They're probably easier to find than the model 22, because no one wanted that silly logo on the side. As I understand it, the folks at Thunder Ranch had nothing to do with the gold logo, but the Smith and Wesson marketing executives thought that they needed something flashy to sell the gun....they learned their lesson, I think! The newer ones are not "Thunder Ranch" models anyway, and don't have any kind of logo other than the traditional S&W markings.

An enterprising gunsmith could easily fabricate a steel extension and solder it to the grip frame to make it into a "proper" square butt, using real square butt grips. I considered buying one of the gold-logo'd model 21's last year and doing this...

Lew Horton has also had some 3" adjustable sighted .44 specials for some time too. I think they're all nickeled. I think the 3" (especially with adj. sights) is an oddball thing, but some people like them.

 

[Les Gillis]

Thunder Ranch

The 21 I picked up doesn't have the gold logo. It's just like the Thunder Ranch without the logo. The Ahrends grips that came on the gunfit my hand okay; but they have an ugly painted finish that looks like simulated woodgrain. I found some reproduction old style round butt grips for it and they just don't look in proportion to the rest of the gun. Midway has some sb conversion grips I may order. I'd much rather have a square butt; I don't think it bothers me enough to do more than change the grips though.

 

[carebear]

Hi Carebear and All,

Thank you for posting that link. I have long wondered if there are not many instances of folks thwarting a would-be criminal by displaying a firearm. I would also suspect that most such instances would go unreported.

Of course, by the time a firearms case comes to my attention, normally things have already gone to hell in a handbasket. So my views on packing weapons my be a bit skewed by the cases I see in court versus all those that never make it to a criminal docket.

Atticus

Definitely true. It also depends on what part of the country you're in. A justifiable shoot in rural Georgia will never see an indictment, a perfect shoot in a less rights-respecting venue could go all the way to appeal at the state supreme court.

In general though, the worst case scenarios, both of carriers making horrible mistakes and folks being railroaded unjustly, don't seem to come to pass much.

 

[Harry Pierpont]

American Rifleman

Hi Carebear and All,

Thank you for posting that link. I have long wondered if there are not many instances of folks thwarting a would-be criminal by displaying a firearm. I would also suspect that most such instances would go unreported.

Of course, by the time a firearms case comes to my attention, normally things have already gone to hell in a handbasket. So my views on packing weapons my be a bit skewed by the cases I see in court versus all those that never make it to a criminal docket.

Atticus

The National Rifle Association magazine "American Rifleman" has "The Armed Citizen" every month with stories of everyday people defending life and property legally with firearms.

 

[Feraud]

Let's make this thread fun.
These may fall into the antique side of vintage but are cool none the less.
From top to bottom:
Single shot .50 caliber, .44 Dragoon (the favorite), Colt Army, and pocket pistol.


I have a conversion cylinder for the '58 Remington. Instead of shooting loose ball and powder it take a .45 long colt cartridge. We have lots of fun with that one.

 

[scotrace]

Point me

Where's the best place to go learn more? I'd like to know how to disassemble/reassemble and older firearm, as well as learn spec differences, ammunition variables, etc.

Maybe best to take a class?

 

[WH1]

The National Rifle Association website is always a good starting point for firearms related information. They have several outstanding education programs for people of all skill levels. The NRA certifies instructors and ranges, their is a link under the programs tab, to find these services in your area.

http://www.nra.org/home.aspx

Another good resource is your local shooting shop or range. Check the yellow pages or online for a list in your area.