What am I missing here?

[tonyb]

I wouldn't pay that kind of dough for four reasons. The first is that I'm a cheapskate who appreciates the good stuff but not more than I enjoy scoring a bargain. The second is that I have faith that bargains will continue finding their way to me. Third is that I already have a large collection of vintage hats, some of which are the equal (or nearly so, anyway) of those lids, so it ain't like I'm in desperate need. And fourth is that if I were to pay that much money for only one vintage hat, my wife, who up to this point has been tolerant of the demands my collection has imposed on our household budget, as well our living space, would ask me just when it was that I lost my #%*&ing mind.

Still, to reiterate an entirely valid point that has been made here many times before: those hats are superior to anything to be had new at your retail hat emporium. And they're not just a little bit better, either. The money is truly better spent on one of those old lids than two of anything I've seen on offer these days from Stetson or Biltmore or Bailey or Borsalino or any of 'em.

 

[EricH]

Yep, Bolthead I'm serious. I got it for a song. I recognized the name from an old lounge thread. You can tell from looking at it that it is a top quality hat. My only complaint is the brims a bit narrower than I like. Eric

 

[Art Fawcett]

Hang on to that Oviatt Eric, under glass. Part of my thinking I didn't express in my last post was that I look at these as MUCH more than just hats. These are both irreplacable parts of American history and as such, demand a higher respect than the "just a hat" mentality. As "just hats" I can agree with most of you that it's alot of money for "just a hat" but, what's a part of history worth? To me? priceless.
TonyB, I understand your points and all are valid..been there..lol

 

[Mr. Lucky]

But then again, every once in a while, you get lucky.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110230839433&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

 

[feltfan]

I think they are finally bringing what the hats in question deserve. The Knox Forty was one rung under pure beaver ( Knox 100) and is unquestionably an unreproduceable hat today. I know of no hatter that can match it in quality, myself included.

I agree. Remember that Knox hat cost $40 in the 1940s, which
would be a bundle in today's dollars... even if it
weren't so special in other ways.

The comparison to Art's work is not exactly fair.
It's not like his hats are all simply reproductions. Some VS hats
do have the style of the time, but they're not the
same thing. One of the things I find appealing about
Art's work is that it is personal to him and his unique
design and color sense. He's also not afraid of coming up
with new, not necessarily retro designs in addition to the
vintage-inspired hats. The Winchester felt is very nice, but
it's really quite different from what's in those hats (not to
start that one again).

Me? I want more great vintage hats AND more
Art Fawcett hats. The problem is, any effective
therapy for that condition is bound to cost more
than a new hat from Art...

 

[Tango Yankee]

I have a bit of a different outlook Gents. My opinion? I think they are finally bringing what the hats in question deserve.

That's what I'm afraid of!

I wasn't familiar with Oviatt's and since I wasn't bidding didn't try to look it up. I've seen Knox 40s go for much less. Generally when we've seen a hat go that far over the $200 mark in recent months it was for a hat with an unusual color from Borsalino or a Stratoliner, that sort of thing. Size is also a factor, but generally for the prices to go that high the sizes were larger than 7 3/8. This is all just my impression, understand. I could be wrong.

What I saw when I looked at the auctions:

1. Nice older hats in common colors, good condition
2. Wide brims (brings higher price)
3. Tall crowns (brings higher price)
4. Size 7 3/8 (brings higher price)

It just seemed to me that in the recent past either of these hats would have brought a decent price, but that it would have been under $200. I've been buying hats for a bit over a year now. It wasn't that long ago that if I saw a hat I really wanted I could set my sniper for $202 and have a very good chance of winning. I'm sure that there are those who, at this time last year, would have said that in the previous year they could set their price at $102 and have a good chance at it, so perhaps what appears to be a jump to me is actually in line with past patterns.

This is typical of my luck--whenever I get interested in something it's usually about the time the prices start to take off! :eusa_doh:

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Spellflower]

Me? I want more great vintage hats AND more
Art Fawcett hats. The problem is, any effective
therapy for that condition is bound to cost more
than a new hat from Art...

:eusa_clap
That is one truly masterful piece of rationalization!

Considering that there are folks who pay even more for something like this, I guess it's not surprising. I certainly couldn't afford these hats, but there are certainly those who can, and they could do a lot worse for their money.

Wait a minute, what am I doing? Now the next seller with one of these beauties is going to see this thread and list with a reserve of $400!

So, on careful consideration as a um, professor of millinology, it is my considered and expert opinion that these hats are greatly overvalued, and clearly are not worth half what people are paying for them. My advice is for buyers to save their money and buy a nice new baseball cap. After all, baseball season is upon us, and those hats are much less likely to make people say stupid things to you.

 

[univibe88]

But then again, every once in a while, you get lucky.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110230839433&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

:eusa_clap

What are your plans for that hat? Are you going to have it reblocked and a new sweatband put in? Make sure to post some more pics when you get it. I'm curious about the WPSI.

I think you got yourself a real treasure there!

 

[M_Jones]

Well I'm home sick today so I'll post my thoughts.

1. It is a large size, has a wide brim and a very tall crown.
2. It is a "neutral" color. Violet fedoras are rare and all but not everyone is comfortable wearing one. Brown is very versatile.
3. There is some amazing history behind the brown Oviatt like others have posted.
4. Priorities. Some people, myself included, would never spend $22,000 on a car or $1000 for a TV. The very notion is alien to me.
5. It is, as others have posted, an irreproducible hat nowadays.
6. the bidding war occurred because the runner up wanted the hat to display at the upcoming Oviatt anniversary celebration.
7. The winning bidder could not be around for the close of the auction and wanted the hat more than anything as it is the grail hat that he has wanted since he started wearing hats so he put in an absolutely insane max. bid in hopes of capturing it.
8. The buyer is single and probably will continue to be if he keeps spending this kind of money on hats.
9. The buyer almost threw up when he saw how much the hat went for and feels extreme buyers remorse that can only be lessened by receiving the hat.

I hope this answers your questions SMSgt. While not exactly the same, I seem to remember losing a certain green lid to you a few months ago that went for a a handsome price. In fact you have been my opponent on eBay for a lot of hats.
Perhaps the question you should be asking is how the winner won with a Senior Airman's pay!

 

[feltfan]

:eusa_clap
That is one truly masterful piece of rationalization!

In the immortal words of Louis Jordan,
"What's The Use Of Getting Sober
(When You're Gonna Get Drunk Again)".

EricH, it sounds like your hat is a Borsalino that
was sold at Oviatt, not an Oviatt label hat manufactured
by Borsalino? Pictures, please.

 

[bolthead]

M.Jones....

9. Just about killed me.

 

[Mr. Lucky]

:eusa_clap

What are your plans for that hat? Are you going to have it reblocked and a new sweatband put in? Make sure to post some more pics when you get it. I'm curious about the WPSI.

I think you got yourself a real treasure there!

Thanks! Not to derail the thread too much, but, yep, new sweat band. I don't know about a re-block though, I kind of like the character of the hat as is. We'll see upon arrival.

 

[Tango Yankee]

I hope this answers your questions SMSgt. While not exactly the same, I seem to remember losing a certain green lid to you a few months ago that went for a a handsome price. In fact you have been my opponent on eBay for a lot of hats.
Perhaps the question you should be asking is how the winner won with a Senior Airman's pay!

It certainly does if you were the buyer of the Oviatt, and I see that you are! Congratulations! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap We will, of course, be looking forward to your impressions of it and photos of you in it!

In general, the prices seemed to me to be a bit of a leap from what we were seeing previously and I couldn't make out why. I'm sure we all have spotted a hat that, for whatever reason, we just had to have and bid accordingly. Sometimes we get lucky and the price stays relatively low; other we're not. Still, when it gets down to it, a hat is worth exactly whatever the winning bid was at that particular moment in time.

As for the green hat, you must be talking about the Whippet. I do like green hats, so I upped my usual max bid on that one. It turned out to not be quite as green as it appeared in the photos, but still nice. On the other hand, you won a Lundstom with a somewhat exuberant bow treatment that I liked and bid on-but not with the same determination. As you say, we've been bidding on and/or watching a lot of the same hats. I'd reassure you that I'm out of the big bidding wars for a while but I suppose after buying that hat you may be as well!

As for asking how a Senior Airman can afford that hat on a SrA's pay, well, I won't. I was asked the same question too many times when I bought my first new car as a SrA back when a SrA's base pay was $1,000 a month less than it is today. It wasn't an expensive car, either, but back then very few airmen were able to afford new cars.

I do hope that when you open the box and try it on any vestiges of buyer's remorse evaporate!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[EricH]

Here's the pics Feltfan

The Borsalino production tag is under the sweat. Eric



http://gallery.mac.com/erich222#100193&bgcolor=black&view=grid

 

[Tango Yankee]

I'm amazed these days at how Fedora Lounge information is being used to give weight to hat auctions, including my Cavanagh Edge research,
Those prices were pretty much unheard of a few years ago.

Brad,

Since the Lounge is pretty much the only place online where such information can easily be found I'm amazed that it doesn't happen more often. Even in auctions that do not cite the Lounge I have seen terms ("bash" comes to mind) and descriptions that indicated the seller had been here.

Those sellers, and we Loungers who came here for information and stayed for the camaraderie, owe the contributers such as yourself, Marc, Art, etc. a huge debt for being so generous with your time and knowledge. :eusa_clap

Of course, it has been a double-edged sword. I'm sure there have been quite a lot of people like myself who stumbled upon this forum and found a somewhat dormant interest in hats roused, who then went fishing in the bay, raising demand and prices.

Regards,
Tom

 

[Spellflower]

To paraphrase a guy on a non-hat forum that I read, the bidder with the best information always wins on ebay. In the old days (before my time) fedoras on ebay cost a fraction of what they go for now. If prices are rising because people are ignorant of their true value (like I was when I'd read only enough posts to think any vintage hat was worth bidding on), then that's a bad thing. But if they're rising because people with good information respect their uniqueness and quality, then that's only fair. Or at least it's only as fair as anything else in America, and a lot more fair than many things .

 

[barrowjh]

In contrast to those prices, I recently won a panama for what I thought was a fair price for a 60-yr old Montecristi, but the seller is devastated, he was expecting $200 or more. This is the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...em=270218222933&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI

I watched it go through a regular 1 week listing and nobody bid on it. I was leary of paying over $70 for a straw without being able to verify whether or not it had dried out. The seller re-listed on a 3-day and I went to Panama Bob's site and saw that a 500+ weave count Montecristi was worth $299 new. I saw that only one other person was bidding, and I decided to enter the fray just to see if it could be landed for under $100.

I have since told the seller that I was apprehensive (buyer's remorse) about whether or not I made a fool of myself for bidding that high. As I indicated before, the seller is devastated, hurt that I would even suggest it might not be as good as advertised. I don't know if he is a FL member, but he seemed to be a knowledgeable hat lover, and now I empathize with his pain; if the hat is as good as advertised, maybe the winning bid was an insult to the hat.

I told him that maybe it was just the proliferation of 7 1/8 hats. I also passed along to him something I heard when I visited Winchester Hat Co. a few weeks ago - they dropped the comment that this was shaping up to be a bad year for hats, and off-handedly mentioned 'election years are always awful for hats.' Anyone else ever heard that? Certainly seems inconsistent with the two auctions that started this thread, but those were extraordinary hats. From what I can tell, the custom hatters on here are busy as hell, no election year effect for them, but again, maybe their clientele (us) is just different from the casual hat buyer.

 

[Spellflower]

'election years are always awful for hats.'

Sure, sure, they're also bad for arugula harvests, boat insurance sales, and consumption of plastic cocktail swords!

 

[univibe88]

Damn, and I was just thinking about an arugula salad for dinner. Now what am I going to do?

 

[M_Jones]

I'm glad I made you laugh Bolthead but it was true. I have to get up early for work and bid in the wee hours of the morning (er, well to some people). Work was very busy and I forgot all about the hat until I got home. I saw that I won the hat but when I saw the price I didn't feel so well.

SMSgt.- Thank you and I am looking forward to the hat. You are spot on about the hat "we have to have" but in retrospect I wouldn't have gone that high. Oh well...

I was indeed referencing the Whippet and it is because of that auction I bid so high on the Oviatt-I thought for sure the Whippet was mine. By the way how about a photo essay on that hat, I have been waiting for it for a long time now. At least I know who I lose to a lot of the time and know that you appreciate them. As far as the Lundstom goes-the break where the brim meets the crown is weak and the hat was renovated so the back is now the front and the entire body was flipped inside out. Saying all of that-I love it! Wanna trade for the Whippet? lol

The good news (for you folks) is that soon I will be selling a large portion of my collection as the bug has been gorged.

fftopic: I am amazed what my fellow Airmen can afford. I worked with an Army Sergeant for two years and he bought a new car at least every six months. An Airman I worked with calculated once that after his bills he made $45 every paycheck. Suffice it to say he was glad to move into base housing.lol