Western, anyone?

[hatophile]

I wish I knew the dimensions. I have an O'Farrell Glenn Family era 50X that would probably be close too. If I could only find where it's at.


She would say don't you dare trim one hair in that stache!

This weekend I may pull out that Stetson and post it, see what you think. It's a Stetson Longhorn Jr.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

This weekend I may pull out that Stetson and post it, see what you think. It's a Stetson Longhorn Jr.

I think you're right on with a Longhorn Jr! Not too many of those around. I believe Jared & Michael Ray both have one. You guys should start a thread.

 

[belfastboy]

A couple of the wealthy families here put their civic responsibilities & money into public art, museums & libraries.

Then we have the stained Black Angel in a local cemetery dating back to the 1850's.

We have a 100' statue made of 70's & 80's Chevy Camaros stacked on top of each other....(tre modern & chic) and then we have the statues of our founding fathers that many are trying to topple for multiple reasons....mostly made up.

 

[hatophile]

I think you're right on with a Longhorn Jr! Not too many of those around. I believe Jared & Michael Ray both have one. You guys should start a thread.

Good Idea.

 

[FunnelVission]

Thanks! It’s a nice hat, but it’s a couple sizes too small for me so it will be put on the block soon.

As for the crease, I think of a four sided crease ending in a peak when I think of a Montana crease. To me, this hat has more of a Gus crease. Then again, the same creases have lots of different names and sometimes the nuances between them aren’t very meaningful.

Ah, I'd heard Gus crease and Montana crease used synonymous lol. Also seen it refered to as a varient of the bullrider style.
On the subject of the Gus crease, had my silverbelly hat turn dirt tan today. Dusty out in the vinyard today!

Picture is after blowing off most of it...

 

[Rumad]

A couple of the wealthy families here put their civic responsibilities & money into public art, museums & libraries.

Then we have the stained Black Angel in a local cemetery dating back to the 1850's.

That angel sounds intriguing. I’m gonna have to look that up.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Good Idea.

Perry, if you get to t out just for pics be sure & measure it up & anything else about it.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

That angel sounds intriguing. I’m gonna have to look that up.

Her marker is topped with ~6 ft angel looking down upon her grave. No matter what they clean it with, within a short time it turns black. No trees nearby that would produce tree sap; nothing in the soil.

I can't remember her name at the moment but the story goes that she was from back east, Philadelphia I think. Right after their marriage the couple came West but she didn't want to leave Philadelphia, civilization & family. This area was being settled around 1840. She died around 1850 of consumption or pneumonia. I have some 35mm slides of the angel I took but no way to digitize them.

 

[Rumad]

Her marker is topped with ~6 ft angel looking down upon her grave. No matter what they clean it with, within a short time it turns black. No trees nearby that would produce tree sap; nothing in the soil.

I can't remember her name at the moment but the story goes that she was from back east, Philadelphia I think. Right after their marriage the couple came West but she didn't want to leave Philadelphia, civilization & family. This area was being settled around 1840. She died around 1850 of consumption or pneumonia. I have some 35mm slides of the angel I took but no way to digitize them.

I appreciate you telling the story. The only thing I could find is in Iowa city. I thought you were a tad further south than that, so wrong one. Pretty neat to at any rate, and haunted. I’ll keep digging. Very interesting, HJ.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

We have a 100' statue made of 70's & 80's Chevy Camaros stacked on top of each other....(tre modern & chic) and then we have the statues of our founding fathers that many are trying to topple for multiple reasons....mostly made up.

I've seen the Cadillac sculpture in Nebraska.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I appreciate you telling the story. The only thing I could find is in Iowa city. I thought you were a tad further south than that, so wrong one. Pretty neat to at any rate, and haunted. I’ll keep digging. Very interesting, HJ.

Iowa? Never lived north of the Mason-Dixon line, & whenever I have to cross it I wait until after dark. Just kiddin'...

That reminds me of that great scene in Django Unchained when they are talking at dinner about how long & difficult it must be for the good Dr. King Schultz since he last conversed with anyone in his native tongue, in German.

Calvin Candie as played by Leonardo DiCaprio replies, "Hell, I can’t imagine two weeks in Boston!"

My apologies to all my northern friends!

Christoph Waltz played a great Dr. Schultz, by the way.

 

[Rmccamey]

Or a Tom Horn crease. Many names over time for a similar crease.

Ah, I'd heard Gus crease and Montana crease used synonymous lol. Also seen it refered to as a varient of the bullrider style.
On the subject of the Gus crease, had my silverbelly hat turn dirt tan today. Dusty out in the vinyard today!

Picture is after blowing off most of it...

 

[FunnelVission]

Or a Tom Horn crease. Many names over time for a similar crease.

View attachment 360155

Oh yeah, it's a bit like the tarantula and reptile world, only those have the ability to use the animal's Latin name to avoid confusion. Makes things confusing sometimes haha. This chart is from Stalker Hat's website and the Tom Mix, Montana, and Packer shown on this chart, all look fairly similar. It's fascinating how many variations there are, and different names for those variations. Some of these I wouldn't even notice a difference ('course, I'm pretty new to hats), like the Cattleman and Arena. Even the Roughstock looks pretty similar.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

This is what I was think of when I hear Montana crease:

Some folks call it a Montana Peak crease, but it’s also just called a Montana crease. This is from Resistol:

As there isn’t any body or organization which establishes uniform definitions the same names are used for different creases. Part of this could be regional or it could primarily be personal tradition. There might be a consensus of what defines the crease, but there will never be uniformity…and I like that.

 

[FunnelVission]

This is what I was think of when I hear Montana crease:

View attachment 360238 View attachment 360239

Some folks call it a Montana Peak crease, but it’s also just called a Montana crease. This is from Resistol:

View attachment 360240


As there isn’t any body or organization which establishes uniform definitions the same names are used for different creases. Part of this could be regional or it could primarily be personal tradition. There might be a consensus of what defines the crease, but there will never be uniformity…and I like that.

Makes sense. Also keeps things interesting! Wasn't the origin of hat creases just a result of use, with the whole deliberately placing specific creases thing, relatively new? If so, it makes sense that the naming scheme would be very fast and loose. Early hatters could pretty much call the creases whatever they'd like, so long as they were consistent, I'd think.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Makes sense. Also keeps things interesting! Wasn't the origin of hat creases just a result of use, with the whole deliberately placing specific creases thing, relatively new? If so, it makes sense that the naming scheme would be very fast and loose. Early hatters could pretty much call the creases whatever they'd like, so long as they were consistent, I'd think.

I think most hats back in the day came open crown and uncreased and the owners shaped them either intentionally or just through use. Otherwise, the store selling them could give them their initial crease, but that doesn’t mean they stayed in that shape. The felt back then wasn’t as firm/hard as most current western felt and the shapes were more easily changed. The old hats tend to show irregular and asymmetrical creases.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Oh yeah, it's a bit like the tarantula and reptile world, only those have the ability to use the animal's Latin name to avoid confusion. Makes things confusing sometimes haha. This chart is from Stalker Hat's website and the Tom Mix, Montana, and Packer shown on this chart, all look fairly similar. It's fascinating how many variations there are, and different names for those variations. Some of these I wouldn't even notice a difference ('course, I'm pretty new to hats), like the Cattleman and Arena. Even the Roughstock looks pretty similar.

Pre Civil War southern planters wore big brim, low telescope crowned hats for sun & rain protection. Civil War officers were allowed to wear civilian hats & often preferred the same big brim, low crown "slouch hats", especially cavalry units riding on horseback (think Geo. Armstrong Custer). Their hats were soft so as to pin up the brim of the riders dominant hand side for using swords & rifles.

When John B. Stetson designed the Boss of the Plains hat in 1865 he did so out of beaver for better weather protection, retained the big brim & opened up the crown from the telescope for the same reason. With an open crown rain no longer collected in the sunken telescope of a crown. The demand for taller open crowns came about in the SW because they were thought to be cooler in the summer & warmer in the mild winters.

Creases came about largely as a regional thing, to denote if you were local to the region or not. And you probably couldn't wear a tall open crown & keep it on in the winter winds of Wyoming or Montana, for example. The big exaggerated creases came with the Wild West Shows. The medium crown hats with rolled fenders came from rodeo competitors such as barrel racers & 1950's TV Westerns.

There are still regional differences, from the Hemphill Open Road crease of the east TX country, to the taco style worn by the ropers of west TX, to the vaqueros style of CA. Most of the rest is now just window dressing.

 

[hatophile]

Perry, if you get to t out just for pics be sure & measure it up & anything else about it.

Yes for sure Jack!

 

[FunnelVission]

Pre Civil War southern planters wore big brim, low telescope crowned hats for sun & rain protection. Civil War officers were allowed to wear civilian hats & often preferred the same big brim, low crown "slouch hats", especially cavalry units riding on horseback (think Geo. Armstrong Custer). Their hats were soft so as to pin up the brim of the riders dominant hand side for using swords & rifles.

When John B. Stetson designed the Boss of the Plains hat in 1865 he did so out of beaver for better weather protection, retained the big brim & opened up the crown from the telescope for the same reason. With an open crown rain no longer collected in the sunken telescope of a crown. The demand for taller open crowns came about in the SW because they were thought to be cooler in the summer & warmer in the mild winters.

Creases came about largely as a regional thing, to denote if you were local to the region or not. And you probably couldn't wear a tall open crown & keep it on in the winter winds of Wyoming or Montana, for example. The big exaggerated creases came with the Wild West Shows. The medium crown hats with rolled fenders came from rodeo competitors such as barrel racers & 1950's TV Westerns.

There are still regional differences, from the Hemphill Open Road crease of the east TX country, to the taco style worn by the ropers of west TX, to the vaqueros style of CA. Most of the rest is now just window dressing.

Very interesting! I'm kind of surprised the felt was thinner, especially given the greater abundance of fur bearers (and lack of regulations for taking said fur bearers). I suppose it had something to do with the felting process, and lack of modern machinery to assist in the process. So would a hat at that time period be a bit like if you had a western hat made out of dress weight felt? I wonder how well they held up over time compared to what's available today?

Thanks for the lesson, it's such a fascinating subject!

Edit: Forgot to also quote deadlyhandsome, but the post is directed at both of you.

 

[jlee562]

Very interesting! I'm kind of surprised the felt was thinner, especially given the greater abundance of fur bearers (and lack of regulations for taking said fur bearers). I suppose it had something to do with the felting process, and lack of modern machinery to assist in the process. So would a hat at that time period be a bit like if you had a western hat made out of dress weight felt? I wonder how well they held up over time compared to what's available today?

Thanks for the lesson, it's such a fascinating subject!

Edit: Forgot to also quote deadlyhandsome, but the post is directed at both of you.

vintage felts are denser than their modern equivalents. On the earlier hats we can probably attribute that to the use of mercury on the fur before the felting process. Also, the felts were likely just processed longer during the felting process. Sometimes they were stored for a while and 'aged' before use. Not much has changed as far as machinery goes.

here's a comparison of an early 1900's nutria Boss Raw Edge, and its modern counterpart.



To be fair, the modern felt is particularly thick (minimally pounced for an almost longhair appearance methinks), but there is quite the difference.