Wearing a vintage tie

[Mojave Jack]

I've been looking for a good vintage tie for the upcoming Queen Mary summit, but I admit to being a little baffled on them. A few questions, gentlemen, if you don't mind.

1) Where should the tip of the tie fall? I've seen photos where the tip of the tie is just below the sternum, and in others it appears longer. Is that a matter of the particular years, that is, did it get longer gradually over time? What would be the proper length for about 1936?

2) How long should a vintage tie be for someone 6' tall, i.e. in total length, not just a repeat of the above question?

3) How wide were the ties from the 30s? Some seem to flare pretty wide, but I'm not sure if they just look wider just because they are shorter or not. Also, some seem to have concave curves to the edges, rather than being straight down the edges. Am I seeing things, or were they slightly curved?

4) What is the knot most commonly used in the 1930s?

5) And a related but separate question, what kind of collar was most commonly worn with a suit? What collar would be most appropriate with a tweed sportcoat?

Thanks in advance for the help, folks!

 

[Chad Sanborn]

I think the length of the tie is a matter of personal taste. Too short or long and it looks like you tied it wrong. Though back in the day, they did tie them shorter, but they also wore a vest to cover it.
All of my ties are about 4-5 inches in width at the widest point, and hang down to a point just above my beltline. The tip of the tie is a hairswidth away from the top of the britches I am wearing. One thing to consider when putting on a tie, is the proportion of your upper body to your lowerbody. Try to find a length that evens you out.
As to the width, I like wider ties. But I am a slimmer person and this ads the illusion of girth. Again find one that flatters you.
I always use a full windsor knot. It gives you the most even looking knot, and a nice dimple in the part that hangs down.

Chad

 

[Mr. Rover]

Personally, I try to get vintage ties to end as close to the waistband as I can. With vintage ties, it sometimes leaves a bit of space, with modern, a little lower. Shooting for the waistband keeps the vertical line, and is more pleasing to the eye.
Generally, you can tell a tie is vintage by the lack of padded lining and having stitching at the tip. A look I see alot is the tighter, smaller V in the collar framing a 4-in-hand knot.
I think a button-down and a straight collar will look fine with a tweed sportscoat. If you wanted to look a bit British countryman, you could get a spread collar and tie your tie with a Windsor Knot.


ray

 

[BellyTank]

How high your trousers are is a key factor in tie length. If you wear (vintage style) high waisted pants, the tie should finish above the waist, making it pretty short.
Ray's right about vintage ties- no padding/interlining/lining- gives you the small knot-flared tie effect, makes the most of the width.

You see a lot of low waisted trousers nowadays and ties reaching beyond the waistband, giving the effect of a too-long torso- disproportionate body effect.

I took the lining out of a cheap polyester navy/red stripe tie and re-sewd it and now it ties just like a vintage one with a tiny knot and a flappy tail.

B
T

 

[Mr. Rover]

Is there a certain wrinkle-factor? A guidance counselor at my high school is a tie collector, and he always tries to date my ties. He mentioned something about how much a tie wrinkles revealing age. Anyone got any background about that?

 

[Mojave Jack]

Thanks, guys! Very helpful.

I was looking at some of the ties from a web site someone else posted, Vintage Swank, and saw some pretty nice vintage ties from the 30s and 40s. The prices run around $30-50. Are those good prices? Unfortunately around here we don't have much on the way of second-hand stores, so the web is about my only resource.

 

[BellyTank]

Jack:
There are a lot of places on the 'net selling vintage ties-
$40-50 should get you a nice, collectible 'Palm Tree' tie, or an equally collectible design-

A so-so but vintage tie should cost peanuts but on the 'net, everything's a commodity-

Ray:

Wrinkle factor would be particular to fabric type- maybe he means that silk or rayon or what have you can be recognised by the 'wrinkle factor'..?

You could always look at the label...

B
T

 

[Chad Sanborn]

I should also point out that you will need a tie clip as opposed to a tie pin. Nothing wrong with a pin, but each time you use it, you risk putting a 'run' in the tie. The tie pin actually pokes a hole in the tie. If you are lucky you can get the fibers to spread around the pin. Usually though, you end up breaking some of the ties fibers and will cause the tie to get a run like womens pantyhose do.

The clip goes around the tie and the shirt holding it in place. My tie clip also matches my cufflinks!

Chad

 

[The Wingnut]

I don't pay more than $15 for a tie. $30 - $50 is downright silly unless you're going for something super rare. Even then I call into question paying that much for something so insubstantial.

I've got quite a collection ranging from early '30s to late '40s. Lots of neat designs and styles. You just need to know where to look.

In the '30s, printed ties were anywhere near as common as brocade ties. I actually like '30s brocade more than '40s prints, but they're a bit hard to find.

The major difference with modern ties is the length. The common waistline is much lower now, and most guys want the tie hanging below their belt buckle. Vintage ties were usually tied to fall about an inch or two above the waistline, and that waistline was up over your bellybutton.

Another major difference is construction. There's a lot of padding inside a modern tie, vintage ties are usually nothing more than the outer silk shell and a 'cheesecloth' inner. A vintage tie will drape, fold, flip. Modern ties are almost stiff.

 

[Veronica Parra]

I was looking at some of the ties from a web site someone else posted, Vintage Swank, and saw some pretty nice vintage ties from the 30s and 40s. The prices run around $30-50. Are those good prices?

Some of the ties here are fantastic. The prices are not. There are plenty of dealers who can't give away their '30s ties -- there has never been a big vintage market for them, and now even less so. Frankly, the low demand does not justify VintageSwank's high prices.

-- Marc

 

[Brad Bowers]

There are plenty of dealers who can't give away their '30s ties

Send 'em to me! I can't find anything vintage around here.

Brad

 

[scotrace]

Lucky

I picked up a half dozen great 40's ties for around $20 recently. I've found that I have to tie them so that the narrow end is very short, but I love 'em.

 

[BellyTank]

Scott- you need higher waisted pants man!

Look at Bogart-

B
T

 

[scotrace]

Absolutely

But as you know, "pretty thin on the ground."
All my pants are "long rise."

 

[Mojave Jack]

I don't pay more than $15 for a tie. $30 - $50 is downright silly unless you're going for something super rare. Even then I call into question paying that much for something so insubstantial.

I've got quite a collection ranging from early '30s to late '40s. Lots of neat designs and styles. You just need to know where to look.

OK, Vintage Swank is out! Anybody near the Palm Springs area that can recommend a good place to find vintage ties?

Another major difference is construction. There's a lot of padding inside a modern tie, vintage ties are usually nothing more than the outer silk shell and a 'cheesecloth' inner. A vintage tie will drape, fold, flip. Modern ties are almost stiff.

Is that literally chessecloth, the stuff that is almost like gauze? Most of my modern ties have that thick padding, that looks like burlap but not quite so coarse. Many if my silk ties are pretty floppy, though, which I've always preferred anyway. Are vintage ties even floppier than a good silk tie?

 

[BellyTank]

The linin, or padding differs from tie to tie but yes, sometimes it is just thin gauze. From what I have observed, ties started getting padded out in the '70s-
all my earlier ties are without. It also depends though on the fabric of the tie and the desired effect.

B
T

 

[Veronica Parra]

You're cordially invited to go to the "Display Case" section of the Forum and check out the "Show us your TIES" thread. Post those ties up, mates!

 

[Mr. Rover]

My silk 30's tie has the gauze cheesecloth, whereas my "cravats" don't have lining at all.

 

[Daniel Riser]

It was very common in the thirties to sans the lining because manufacturers were trying to save money during the depression.

If you want a thirties tie just PM me. I have a few I was going to sell at the QM.

Look forward to seeing you there. Watch in the events section as there will be a big update on the QM summit coming from your two hosts, Bogie1943 and myself.

Thanks.

Dan

 

[Daniel Riser]

Also...

It was quite common in the early thirties in the movies and in real life, to tie it so the back was slightly longer than the front, why I don't know. Personally I am not a fan of it.

Also Fred Astaire quite often tied his tie long enough that he would tuck the tapered end into his trousers, that would serve two purposes. One, when he buttons his jacket, his longer-than-usual tie wouldn't show and... it served as a temporary tie clip without the... tie clip.