We Deserve Better--Or Do We?

[LizzieMaine]

I fully expect civilization to collapse into an Idiocracy-like debacle within the next century, but I'll be dead in another 20 or 25 years so there's really no point in my worrying about it. I've survived ten presidencies, three wars, a dozen recessions, acid rock, heavy metal, disco, punk, rap, bad sitcoms, made-for-cable movies, reality TV, and the 1978 Red Sox, so there isn't too much out there that can scare me.

I have as little to do with Modern Culture as possible, and I'm perfectly happy to leave it at that. All I can do is maintain my own integrity as best I can and try to point out the *real* issues to those who sincerely want to understand them. I just don't see any point in complaining about how low the armholes are when the whole suit itself is nothing but worthless polyester.

 

[sheeplady]

The corporations will give us anything we want if we show them that we will buy it. But we're showing them that we are more than willing to buy crap. Yes, WE. Because WE are all in this together whether WE like it or not. If you think the country is going to hell in a handbasket but it somehow isn't going to drag you with it, I have a reality TV series I'd like to sell you.

No, if the corporations want to sell us something they will make us want it. The corporations manufacture want. They've been doing that for a long long time. I'm convinced that people don't want half the crud that's out there themselves until they're told to do so. We've become a generation who is more interested in what our neighbor has in their home than what's going on in ours. Why do people line up outside stores for days for a new product? Because of hype.

I don't think that people have fundamentally changed in a few generations. To state that our taste has changed so much suggests a fundamental change in people. I feel more strongly that people always had certain traits- for instance- want and greed. But what has happened is that corporations have figured out how to manipulate this want really effectively. Our task is not so much to resist the media, as it is to resist this fundamental human trait. Our interest in reality TV isn't because we have fundamentally changed as a people, it's because reality TV is associated with a basic human trait of voyeurism. The companies have figured that out (they knew it for a long time) and are just playing to our base instincts.

As far as TV itself being a worthy medium for kids, it is capable of doing much good. Two words: Mister Rogers.

Agreed. Too bad we don't have anything like that on TV now.

 

[Futwick]

i have no idea who brittany kim gum-snapper-pop-rocker is

You're not missing anything.

but what i have seen as a grouchy 28 year old is that the culture surrounding that type of stuff has a strange uniformity to it. the fans of something (brittany kim so'n'so) that think they are so indy hip or edgy actually are pretty uniform considering that they all tune in, they all absorb it and hang on every note and reality TV seems to possess some super gravity.

None of them have been out of their mothers' backyards. They are largely idiots. When Justin Bieber was criticized for some dumb remark he made at a memorial for Anne Frank in Europe, it was disconcerting how many of his fans defended him by saying, "Who cares? I don't even know who Anne Frank is!" Just sheer stupidity. The problem, though, isn't the kids--it's their parents. Few of them are really fit to be parents. The kids are idiots because the parents are idiots. There should be an IQ test before you're allowed to have kids--about half the kids in this country wouldn't have been born and that's a conservative estimate. Now you take a show like "Tiaras and Toddlers" (which is about kiddie pageants). I read the other day that one of the girls on that show is already a millionaire just for being on this stupid show. Now imagine how many of these idiot parents now want to get their kids on this show or another like it so they too can be millionaires. Think that show's going away. Not on your life. Not when there's money to be made.

it loops in all the 10-20 year olds that either want to model their life off of or live like the people the see on TV.where the reality and individuality? or does TV dictate culture these days? all the little girls want to be like these wrecks that drive a Ferrari and have a chihuahua, this crap is not a positive influence. if any thing is is promoting reckless and hazardous behavior and presenting overly sexual images to young people that might not grasp exactly what they are viewing and what it means to dress like that

They also don't realize that getting stalked is part of being famous. If fame and fortune came in package deals like cable channels do, stalking would be part of Fame&Fortune basic. "Couldn't I just get the fame and fortune package without getting stalked?" "No, sir, stalking is part of every package. Take it or leave it."

i dont take myself seriously, all i am is a hardcore pre 60's jazz fan that sips stout coffee and loves noir films. thanks to my parents, if MTV came on...i would be intercepted with a swift directional correctional impact. and i thank them for doing so, otherwise i'd probably be a hipster jerk.

I do take my family seriously and I feel I owe them to make them the best human beings that I can. I can't withdraw from the world and say screw it. I owe my kids more than that and I expect that I'll have grandchildren at some point and I want my kids to instill the same values. All my kids play piano, cello and bass. I'm teaching one guitar. Actually, she's teaching me since she's already better. See, my wife and I are both musicians. My wife was classically trained on both piano and cello and I was trained for double bass. We taught our kids music. My wife trained the kids to read music before they were old enough to read words. They could play Beethoven on the piano at 5. Sometimes we all play together as a string quintet. That's how my wife learned music because her mother was also a musician and brought her up the same way and she and her family were a mini-orchestra. And we want our kids to do the same when they have kids.

And, yeah, I love the 50s jazz. Bop and cool jazz are really my gig although I do listen to a huge amount of free jazz and avant jazz.

 

[Futwick]

No, if the corporations want to sell us something they will make us want it.

Yes, but we should know when we're being sold a steaming pile of crap. If you're at a restaurant and order this delicious-looking dinner and they bring you out a shriveled, maladorous, unidentifiable pile of something, do you just eat it and pay for it or do you give the establishment a piece of your mind and walk out?

I'm convinced that people don't want half the crud that's out there themselves until they're told to do so. We've become a generation who is more interested in what our neighbor has in their home than what's going on in ours. Why do people line up outside stores for days for a new product? Because of hype.

But whose fault is that? I blame the consumer because if the consumer doesn't say, "No, you give me something better if you want my money" then the consumer shouldn't expect anything better. If I'm a manufacturer and you're buying what I'm selling, why should I change it? You're buying it. Yes, I know the corporations create demands and then fill them. I know they use bait&switch. But if we as consumers let them get away with it then it goes on us. We have to stop being sheep and start demanding a better product.

 

[LizzieMaine]

You have much more faith in the Invisible Hand Of The Market than I do. When people start "demanding a better product," all the Boys will do is figure out a way to take the same old worthless product and wrap it up in a fancier package and bamboozle you into buying it again. Think of all the ways in which "alternative" culture is commodified in modern society -- "Be a bold rebel, shop at American Apparel!" -- or the ways in which "alternative" health products are turned into swindles and scams by operators little removed from the days of the medicine show. Or the ways in which "upscale" restaurants take sixty cents worth of ingredients and get you to pay twenty dollars for the privilege of eating it. As long as you see your main role as being that of Consumer, defined by what you consume, you're still playing right into their game. Even an educated sucker is still a sucker.

You can't change the system, you can't improve the system. The Invisible Hand has its middle finger pointed straight at you. The only alternative is to completely reject it, and modern society doesn't have the spine for that.

 

[sheeplady]

Yes, but we should know when we're being sold a steaming pile of crap. If you're at a restaurant and order this delicious-looking dinner and they bring you out a shriveled, maladorous, unidentifiable pile of something, do you just eat it and pay for it or do you give the establishment a piece of your mind and walk out?

But whose fault is that? I blame the consumer because if the consumer doesn't say, "No, you give me something better if you want my money" then the consumer shouldn't expect anything better. If I'm a manufacturer and you're buying what I'm selling, why should I change it? You're buying it. Yes, I know the corporations create demands and then fill them. I know they use bait&switch. But if we as consumers let them get away with it then it goes on us. We have to stop being sheep and start demanding a better product.

Well, to be quite frank, I think it's difficult to find good products out there. I'm not going to choose between crud and more crud. I don't want to buy things that are made with slave labor, that manipulate and take advantage of employees (which I believe reality TV does, to a great extent), or that I simply don't like. The best thing for me is to remove myself from the cycle. Until we all decide to check out, it's not going to change.

Any movement is faced with a question of to work *within* the system or to *destroy* the system. I think fundamentally we disagree as to if the system is fixable or not. You seem to be proposing that we work within the system- voting with our dollars to choose better "products" (be them media or otherwise). From my vantage point, there is nothing that worth wild out there, the system is fundamentally broken. I have never been a fan of choosing the "lesser evil"- be it a politician, a product, etc. The lesser evil is still evil. The company who makes the lesser evil product is still manipulating you and you are still feeding the system. You can't win the war by voting with your dollars for the lesser evil product. You need to starve the beast by cutting off all funds.

 

[Foxer55]

Futwick,

None of them have been out of their mothers' backyards. They are largely idiots. When Justin Bieber was criticized for some dumb remark he made at a memorial for Anne Frank in Europe, it was disconcerting how many of his fans defended him by saying, "Who cares? I don't even know who Anne Frank is!" Just sheer stupidity. The problem, though, isn't the kids--it's their parents. Few of them are really fit to be parents. The kids are idiots because the parents are idiots. There should be an IQ test before you're allowed to have kids--about half the kids in this country wouldn't have been born and that's a conservative estimate. Now you take a show like "Tiaras and Toddlers" (which is about kiddie pageants). I read the other day that one of the girls on that show is already a millionaire just for being on this stupid show. Now imagine how many of these idiot parents now want to get their kids on this show or another like it so they too can be millionaires. Think that show's going away. Not on your life. Not when there's money to be made.

I'm am currently getting instruction for mentoring "Miilenial" kids in some particular skills training. One of the instructors, a high school teacher, has the following comment about kids today.

"They are really smart kids, they can factor polynomials all day long and just the request for some information means they will generate piles of spread sheets from the most complex computer programs available. Instantly. But they can't find their ass with both hands. If you ask them to go to the store and bring back a particular item, they can't do it. They are getting no practical sense of life. The teacher says they are the most well trained bunch of people that ever lived but their educations are intensely focused on technology use and little training in common sense, history, or reality ever happens because there's no time to do it. These kids lives are managed down to the micro second by schools, teachers, and parents for maximum training and engorgement with productivity."

Oh, and apparently they don't take failure and criticism well at all because they have never learned about failure. They live the perfect lives.

 

[vitanola]

You have much more faith in the Invisible Hand Of The Market than I do. When people start "demanding a better product," all the Boys will do is figure out a way to take the same old worthless product and wrap it up in a fancier package and bamboozle you into buying it again. Think of all the ways in which "alternative" culture is commodified in modern society -- "Be a bold rebel, shop at American Apparel!" -- or the ways in which "alternative" health products are turned into swindles and scams by operators little removed from the days of the medicine show. Or the ways in which "upscale" restaurants take sixty cents worth of ingredients and get you to pay twenty dollars for the privilege of eating it. As long as you see your main role as being that of Consumer, defined by what you consume, you're still playing right into their game. Even an educated sucker is still a sucker.

You can't change the system, you can't improve the system. The Invisible Hand has its middle finger pointed straight at you. The only alternative is to completely reject it, and modern society doesn't have the spine for that.

I love you.





Oh, and welcome to Costco.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

It's all about appealing to the lowest-common-denominator. Why make something that is actually new and edgy, when there's a chance it could be a flop? If you just follow the same formula, for music or television, you'll get similar results. It's a safe investment, with a high yield. Who can blame the men in charge for trying to make some money?

As has been said before, the best way to fight it is to avoid it. Obviously, one cannot stop their kids from discovering it, and being part of it, but good parenting can curb it. My parents raised us to not be followers. All three of us go to our own drums, and none of us are even close to being the same. We all have our goods and bads about us, but I'm thankful we were taught not to buy into the next and biggest thing.

The only 'reality' shows I like are Duck Dynasty, American Pickers, Pawn Stars, Counting Cars, and Fast 'n Loud. All, except Duck Dynasty (that one's just good for its comedic value), have an educational point to them. You can learn about what are good and bad investments as a collector, history, and not only what are solid investments for automobiles, but some of how the projects are done. There is some good mixed in the bad of all the garbage on televison.

As for music, I would say 99% of it is a lost cause, at least of what's on the radio.

 

[scottyrocks]

The system has always been set up for money-making. The problem now, though, is acceleration.

All the crap they peddle is now supported not just by a few radio stations, newspapers, magazines, and TV channels, but the internet in general, facebook, twitter, and the like.

Older media were not infinitely renewable, that is, you had to wait a good several hours before you could see anything new and/or updated. Today’s media has you wait a matter of moments. Internet, facebook, twitter, etc – there’s new stuff every minute. Every minute is an opportunity for the public to feed like leeches on the latest craze, or the latest development of their current craze. It’s insane.

Virtually everyone around me is under the influence. Iphones, ipads, cars with every last unnecessary ‘convenience imaginable. I don’t need to know on my phone at a moment’s notice what’s going on in Kimmy’s bedroom. In fact, I never need or want to know what’s going on in Kimmy’s bedroom.

I live my life in what I’ll call a crotchety old man’s mindset, except I’m generally content. I use my computer to read what’s going on here, and some other places, I watch the occasional movie on TV (‘Artists and Models’ is on now), vintage TV shows, as well as modern TV shows that weren’t created to be offensive (‘Mythbusters’ is a good example).

But we are a small minority. Most of the country sucks up all of today’s crap and can’t wait for more more more, which explains the proliferation of today’s ‘Igottaknownow!’ culture. I don’t see anything that’s gonna turn it around.

 

[Gregg Axley]

I'm glad I don't know who some of the "new" people are in the world of TV.
I don't have a phone or car that can connect to the net, and I like it that way.
If I want to get away from it all, I get in my street rod, because that doesn't even have a radio in it!
There isn't much on TV these days that doesn't apply to the "lowest common denominator" as Tom said.
When my few shows go into re-runs, it's time to get the DVD's out, of tv shows from the 50's through the early 70's.

 

[Futwick]

Futwick,



I'm am currently getting instruction for mentoring "Miilenial" kids in some particular skills training. One of the instructors, a high school teacher, has the following comment about kids today.

"They are really smart kids, they can factor polynomials all day long and just the request for some information means they will generate piles of spread sheets from the most complex computer programs available. Instantly.

HE might be talking about the brighter ones, the above average ones. Most of the kids I run across today are not even familiar with the term "polynomial". What they are experts at is playing with their Xboxes and Playstations.

But they can't find their ass with both hands. If you ask them to go to the store and bring back a particular item, they can't do it. They are getting no practical sense of life. The teacher says they are the most well trained bunch of people that ever lived but their educations are intensely focused on technology use and little training in common sense, history, or reality ever happens because there's no time to do it. These kids lives are managed down to the micro second by schools, teachers, and parents for maximum training and engorgement with productivity."

Oh, and apparently they don't take failure and criticism well at all because they have never learned about failure. They live the perfect lives.

I'll pile more despair on top of that--many school districts in this country no longer teach cursive writing to their students. Someone told me that a 21-year-old went into a bank to open an account and couldn't sign the documentation. He printed his name. When told he had to sign it in cursive, he didn't know what that meant. As it turns out, cursive writing has been dropped from the curricula of many school districts and many more districts are in the process of phasing it out or are contemplating doing so. What next--reading?

 

[Futwick]

Virtually everyone around me is under the influence. Iphones, ipads, cars with every last unnecessary ‘convenience imaginable. I don’t need to know on my phone at a moment’s notice what’s going on in Kimmy’s bedroom. In fact, I never need or want to know what’s going on in Kimmy’s bedroom.

I could kill the next idiot I see driving down the road with a cellphone to their ear. And it's not just kids. I see more older people doing it than younger people. And texting while driving is insane. How could anyone dare to take their eyes off the road for that long??

I live my life in what I’ll call a crotchety old man’s mindset, except I’m generally content. I use my computer to read what’s going on here, and some other places, I watch the occasional movie on TV (‘Artists and Models’ is on now), vintage TV shows, as well as modern TV shows that weren’t created to be offensive (‘Mythbusters’ is a good example).

I love "How It's Made." I can watch that all day. They should just have a "How It's Made" channel. I wouldn't watch anything else.

 

[R.G. White]

I'm a teenager, so I'll put my two cents it. First off, I agree with you when it comes to television. It's complete crap.
But music is a different story.
I feel like you're clumping all modern music into something it's not. There is a lot of good stuff out there, it's just that unfortunately none, or most, of it is not played on the radio. Music has always been diverse and it still is. I listen to some of the stuff my friends listen to... bands I've never heard of... and most of it is really good stuff. It certainly isn't what I like to listen to personally, but it's still good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I bet if you turned on the radio thirty years ago there was a lot of worthless junk being played too. Maybe the worthless junk today is more widespread, and the good stuff not as known as it should be, but that does not mean there isn't any good music being played in our modern era.

 

[Pompidou]

Thirty years ago I was four, and totally hooked on cheesy 80s pop like My Sherona - any of that synthy, bass heavy, power chords only stuff that's impossible to listen to without irony today.

 

[bburtner@moran]

LizzieMaine,I like your style!!!!!!!!!

 

[Foxer55]

Futwick,

I'll pile more despair on top of that--many school districts in this country no longer teach cursive writing to their students. Someone told me that a 21-year-old went into a bank to open an account and couldn't sign the documentation. He printed his name. When told he had to sign it in cursive, he didn't know what that meant. As it turns out, cursive writing has been dropped from the curricula of many school districts and many more districts are in the process of phasing it out or are contemplating doing so. What next--reading?

The laugh may be at our expense. We are becoming dinosuars. As technology increases at ever blinding speed many of the cultural and social standards we were part of will disappear completely. Its being driven by money more than intellectual pursuit and it is outpacing law and social acceptance. There's a brave new world coming and it ain't gonna be pleasant. At least not to us.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I'll pile more despair on top of that--many school districts in this country no longer teach cursive writing to their students. Someone told me that a 21-year-old went into a bank to open an account and couldn't sign the documentation. He printed his name. When told he had to sign it in cursive, he didn't know what that meant. As it turns out, cursive writing has been dropped from the curricula of many school districts and many more districts are in the process of phasing it out or are contemplating doing so. What next--reading?

Not only that but many schools don't offer shop courses anymore either. A few years ago a study by the Army found that half of their recruits had never even changed a tire.

 

[scottyrocks]

My dad was an industrial arts, or 'shop' teacher. He retired in '96, and several years before that, shop began to be phased out for 'technology.' In essence, it bacame another textbook-based course, and was no longer hands-on, which was important for many middle school boys who were at their best when working with their hands.

I often wonder what happens to people as they move up towards the top of their respective food chains. They seem to lose all ability to use any common sense. And these are people who make the decisions that affect so many of us in various aspects of our lives.

 

[Futwick]

Not only that but many schools don't offer shop courses anymore either. A few years ago a study by the Army found that half of their recruits had never even changed a tire.

The day my oldest got her license, I taught her to change a tire. I showed her and then made her do it herself. I taught her to use a tire pressure gauge and how to fill her tires with a compressor. That way, if she gets a flat somewhere, she's not dependent on a stranger who might to turn out to be the biggest creep in the world. As far as kids not knowing, I was at a gas station once and a MAN asked me if I would check his front tire and admitted he didn't know how--a man. And, no, I didn't work there and, yes, I checked it for him.