Waxed Leather Jackets

[toomanynotenough]

Stumbled across this Satchel & Page Montgomery Type 2 trucker and it is listed as being British waxed leather. It looks gorgeous.
Does anyone have experience with waxed leather jackets? I know waxed leather is popular in boots but i have not seen or heard much waxed leather in jackets.

Again the jacket looks fantastic.

https://www.satchel-page.com/products/montgomery?variant=31799235477636

 

[dannyk]

No, but Schott and 3sixteen did a collab a year or two ago now of something similar. They didnt call it waxed flesh, they called it oiled roughout. So not 100% the same, or could just be a tweak to the name but I actually thought it looked really cool. I would be so curious to see how it ages and to know if theres any bleed out/oil transfer to where youre sitting or what not.
https://www.schottnyc.com/products/3sixteen-roughout.htm

 

[ton312]

I like that jacket quite a bit but not enough for the $628 price tag.

 

[Monitor]

Looks okay, seems like a nice pattern but you can basically buy a Gap suede trucker jacket, wax it and done deal.

 

[Guppy]

I have yet to find a good Type II trucker in leather that I'd buy, but I think I'd buy this one if it were available.

 

[Guppy]

Stumbled across this Satchel & Page Montgomery Type 2 trucker and it is listed as being British waxed leather. It looks gorgeous.
Does anyone have experience with waxed leather jackets? I know waxed leather is popular in boots but i have not seen or heard much waxed leather in jackets.

Again the jacket looks fantastic.

https://www.satchel-page.com/products/montgomery?variant=31799235477636

I'm informed that they'll be restocking this jacket, and will start taking orders sometime in September, if anyone's interested.

 

[toomanynotenough]

Looks okay, seems like a nice pattern but you can basically buy a Gap suede trucker jacket, wax it and done deal.

I am curious as to why this type of leather is so rare in jackets. A few reasons come to mind but hard for an amateur like me to know exactly how much weight each reason has.
Definitely what you have mentioned, that basically waxed flesh leather doesnt allow for as much pricing differentiation as veg/chrome tan leather and therefore premium prices. If you can wax a cheap suede for similar products like canvas.
Is it hard for tannery's to get drape, flexibility, look right?
Is the market to small for anyone to care?
The waxed style doesnt offer the standard patina effects?

I personally like the waxed flesh/suede/roughout look. I own a Schott 375 which i like but it is a bit stiff.

 

[toomanynotenough]

I'm informed that they'll be restocking this jacket, and will start taking orders sometime in September, if anyone's interested.

Interesting. Anyone have any first hand experience with this jacket?

 

[Seb Lucas]

Waxed leather sounds like a marketing thing. Many leathers are tanned and processed using waxes. What exactly is the difference here?

 

[Monitor]

I am curious as to why this type of leather is so rare in jackets. A few reasons come to mind but hard for an amateur like me to know exactly how much weight each reason has.
Definitely what you have mentioned, that basically waxed flesh leather doesnt allow for as much pricing differentiation as veg/chrome tan leather and therefore premium prices. If you can wax a cheap suede for similar products like canvas.
Is it hard for tannery's to get drape, flexibility, look right?
Is the market to small for anyone to care?
The waxed style doesnt offer the standard patina effects?

I personally like the waxed flesh/suede/roughout look. I own a Schott 375 which i like but it is a bit stiff.

Well, reason why the called suede, or rather split hide, is rarely used in high(er) end jackets is because it's basically a waste product. Don't know how much you know about it but when people say suede, they usually refer to one of two things.

Primarily, the so called split hide is a layer shaved from the underside of the leather. It's split from the surface part to make the good leather thinner because contrary to what HH tells you, you can't go around making 10 oz jackets. Animal skin is thick. Like, super think.

That shaved layer is suede and suede is abundant as near all raw leather needs to be shaved, henceforth there's tons of it which is what makes it cheap. Like, dirt cheap. And AFAIK, there's no quality variation in suede. It's all pretty much the same stuff, though not necessarily bad. Suede is durable, sure, but you can forget all about character & patina. Suede won't drape very well. It won't crease well, often not at all and the terms grain and texture lose all meaning when talking about suede.
Not all the jacket talk is lost as there is a whole set of features unique to suede that you can now discuss, such as how filthy and grimy and how stained your jacket got. And how you can't ever clean any of it because fibers.

Good suede (and I'm sure it has a proper name, I just don't know it) is actually a top grain leather that's during the construction of a jacket been turned backwards. Meaning what's hidden behind the lining on a regular leather jacket is now on the face of the jacket, with the smooth, shiny & proud surface becoming shrouded by the lining. That's a good suede and costs a lot as it's technically not even suede but regular top grain leather used in an unnatural, perverted way to construct an abomination.
Regardless, this is what would justify the price tag and it's what some Japanese makers actually do. That stuff costs money as you got all the benefits of a full grain leather which you can't ever in your life enjoy 'cause the ugly side is up but at least you know that technically, they're there.

But waxing a regular suede and calling it something special... Truth be told, the wax in that jacket probably costs more than the suede panel they've constructed the thing with.

 

[El Marro]

Well, reason why the called suede, or rather split hide, is rarely used in high(er) end jackets is because it's basically a waste product. Don't know how much you know about it but when people say suede, they usually refer to one of two things.

Primarily, the so called split hide is a layer shaved from the underside of the leather. It's split from the surface part to make the good leather thinner because contrary to what HH tells you, you can't go around making 10 oz jackets. Animal skin is thick. Like, super think.

That shaved layer is suede and suede is abundant as near all raw leather needs to be shaved, henceforth there's tons of it which is what makes it cheap. Like, dirt cheap. And AFAIK, there's no quality variation in suede. It's all pretty much the same stuff, though not necessarily bad. Suede is durable, sure, but you can forget all about character & patina. Suede won't drape very well. It won't crease well, often not at all and the terms grain and texture lose all meaning when talking about suede.
Not all the jacket talk is lost as there is a whole set of features unique to suede that you can now discuss, such as how filthy and grimy and how stained your jacket got. And how you can't ever clean any of it because fibers.

Good suede (and I'm sure it has a proper name, I just don't know it) is actually a top grain leather that's during the construction of a jacket been turned backwards. Meaning what's hidden behind the lining on a regular leather jacket is now on the face of the jacket, with the smooth, shiny & proud surface becoming shrouded by the lining. That's a good suede and costs a lot as it's technically not even suede but regular top grain leather used in an unnatural, perverted way to construct an abomination.
Regardless, this is what would justify the price tag and it's what some Japanese makers actually do. That stuff costs money as you got all the benefits of a full grain leather which you can't ever in your life enjoy 'cause the ugly side is up but at least you know that technically, they're there.

But waxing a regular suede and calling it something special... Truth be told, the wax in that jacket probably costs more than the suede panel they've constructed the thing with.

Monitor,
I absolutely love this post, freaking hilarious and very true as well. I had a long hard day at work today and I am tired, but reading this put a big grin on my face!
Thank you!

 

[toomanynotenough]

Well, reason why the called suede, or rather split hide, is rarely used in high(er) end jackets is because it's basically a waste product. Don't know how much you know about it but when people say suede, they usually refer to one of two things.

Primarily, the so called split hide is a layer shaved from the underside of the leather. It's split from the surface part to make the good leather thinner because contrary to what HH tells you, you can't go around making 10 oz jackets. Animal skin is thick. Like, super think.

That shaved layer is suede and suede is abundant as near all raw leather needs to be shaved, henceforth there's tons of it which is what makes it cheap. Like, dirt cheap. And AFAIK, there's no quality variation in suede. It's all pretty much the same stuff, though not necessarily bad. Suede is durable, sure, but you can forget all about character & patina. Suede won't drape very well. It won't crease well, often not at all and the terms grain and texture lose all meaning when talking about suede.
Not all the jacket talk is lost as there is a whole set of features unique to suede that you can now discuss, such as how filthy and grimy and how stained your jacket got. And how you can't ever clean any of it because fibers.

Good suede (and I'm sure it has a proper name, I just don't know it) is actually a top grain leather that's during the construction of a jacket been turned backwards. Meaning what's hidden behind the lining on a regular leather jacket is now on the face of the jacket, with the smooth, shiny & proud surface becoming shrouded by the lining. That's a good suede and costs a lot as it's technically not even suede but regular top grain leather used in an unnatural, perverted way to construct an abomination.
Regardless, this is what would justify the price tag and it's what some Japanese makers actually do. That stuff costs money as you got all the benefits of a full grain leather which you can't ever in your life enjoy 'cause the ugly side is up but at least you know that technically, they're there.

But waxing a regular suede and calling it something special... Truth be told, the wax in that jacket probably costs more than the suede panel they've constructed the thing with.

Informative and condescending.

I know some highend boot makers use waxed Flesh like Nicks Boots and Viberg call it something different plus Whites have something as well. These waxed leather boots are popular.

I understand what works in boots might not work in a jacket but was interested if any of these artisan jacket makers had spent time trying to overcome some of these issues.

I know Aero was very proud of their Majestic goat suede.

 

[navetsea]

it is really wax, or something synthetic and more permanent coat that somewhat make the nap of the suede looks waxed without all the downside of wax on a jacket, I can understand waxed suede or waxed roughout boots, but on a jacket? would that feel weird to touch,and become dirt magnet even more than just a suede.

 

[toomanynotenough]

it is really wax, or something synthetic and more permanent coat that somewhat make the nap of the suede looks waxed without all the downside of wax on a jacket, I can understand waxed suede or waxed roughout boots, but on a jacket? would that feel weird to touch,and become dirt magnet even more than just a suede.

I agree i think it would be difficult to get right as too much wax would have some down sides. I know my waxed canvas jacket is a little stiff but its not terrible and i do really like it.

but all the feedback seems like its not a thing in leather jackets.

 

[Monitor]

Thanks, @El Marro . TBH, took a sleeping pill when I was typing this so I don't even remember what I wrote. XD

Informative and condescending.

I know some highend boot makers use waxed Flesh like Nicks Boots and Viberg call it something different plus Whites have something as well. These waxed leather boots are popular.

I understand what works in boots might not work in a jacket but was interested if any of these artisan jacket makers had spent time trying to overcome some of these issues.

I know Aero was very proud of their Majestic goat suede.

It's not the worst ever but the fact remains that suede is split hide and that split side is a second grade material. It is the top, surface layer of the leather that makes leather what it is and gives it unique properties we talk about here.

Suede or split leather lacks that surface layer, the skin so to call it, so it simply cannot even be a comparable to a full grain leather - there's nothing holding the fibers together, nothing to protect them against elements, etc. - so when someone tells you they got the best, highest quality suede, it's mostly marketing talk.

However, when a leather garment is made out of a full grain leather that's been turned inside out, that's called rough-out and that's a good material.
Aero's Majestic goat suede is actually exactly that, the jackets being made of a full grain goatskin, only with fuzzy side facing outward. You can still see the shiny, top layer being used on the collar & other parts of the jacket so they ought to be proud of it.

I'm a bit condescending because IMO, split hide jackets - or how I would define the term suede - should not cost a lot of money. The guys above talk about how the jacket will age with unique character and... It just won't for there's nothing to really gain character. It is the surface part that gets creases, grain, variation in color & fading, shine, etc., etc.

The fibers just get dirty. And greasy.

 

[navetsea]

not sure if I dig the look... straight up suede like on the collar is a lot more wearable to me, I can see with time suede might get bald here and there collecting dirt and oil and patina might look cool, but never to this level like someone wear his suede jacket and crawl under their car to add grease to moving parts on the suspension and casually wipe his hands allover his jacket.

to be fair there is still some grade in suede tho, good one feel and look like velvet, still higher up the grain, bad one look like terry cloth towel coarse and loose.

 

[Mrfrown]

Well, reason why the called suede, or rather split hide, is rarely used in high(er) end jackets is because it's basically a waste product. Don't know how much you know about it but when people say suede, they usually refer to one of two things.

Primarily, the so called split hide is a layer shaved from the underside of the leather. It's split from the surface part to make the good leather thinner because contrary to what HH tells you, you can't go around making 10 oz jackets. Animal skin is thick. Like, super think.

That shaved layer is suede and suede is abundant as near all raw leather needs to be shaved, henceforth there's tons of it which is what makes it cheap. Like, dirt cheap. And AFAIK, there's no quality variation in suede. It's all pretty much the same stuff, though not necessarily bad. Suede is durable, sure, but you can forget all about character & patina. Suede won't drape very well. It won't crease well, often not at all and the terms grain and texture lose all meaning when talking about suede.
Not all the jacket talk is lost as there is a whole set of features unique to suede that you can now discuss, such as how filthy and grimy and how stained your jacket got. And how you can't ever clean any of it because fibers.

Good suede (and I'm sure it has a proper name, I just don't know it) is actually a top grain leather that's during the construction of a jacket been turned backwards. Meaning what's hidden behind the lining on a regular leather jacket is now on the face of the jacket, with the smooth, shiny & proud surface becoming shrouded by the lining. That's a good suede and costs a lot as it's technically not even suede but regular top grain leather used in an unnatural, perverted way to construct an abomination.
Regardless, this is what would justify the price tag and it's what some Japanese makers actually do. That stuff costs money as you got all the benefits of a full grain leather which you can't ever in your life enjoy 'cause the ugly side is up but at least you know that technically, they're there.

But waxing a regular suede and calling it something special... Truth be told, the wax in that jacket probably costs more than the suede panel they've constructed the thing with.

As someone who really digs the rough out jackets, I gotta say this is one of the funniest posts I’ve seen in a while. Top Grain, High Quality Content!

 

[Grayland]

I like the look but traditional waxed cotton jackets don't work for me and I doubt this would. I have a very nice Barbour that fits perfectly and looks fantastic. Unfortunately, every time I wear the jacket, I end up sweating. The non-breathable nature of the wax just doesn't wok for me. I wish it did.

 

[navetsea]

nubuck tho, easily take wax and might look nice to have parts waxed to add character, much easier than suede since nubuck is just like foam of your mousepad without nap like suede. in the spirit of this thread I just beewaxed the toes of my nubuck boots and buff it into sheen, nice result, tomorrow will wear it. I think if you want to make distressed suede look, you have to dremel polish it here and there to simulate contact wear, and once the nap reduced or compacted then you can apply some wax to simulate environment muck it gathers.

 

[Corky Corcovado]

I like rough out, grime and all. My favorite boots I've had since high school are rough out Boulets and they look great! I use a stiff brush and water to clean em.