was tipping at restaurants common in the old days?

[Fastuni]

Your claim defies credibility. If making over 100 grand as a waiter is that easy and normal (and not a rare exception at some exclusive top restaurant), why didn't you become a waiter?
Heck... where can I apply?

 

[Bad Co]

I did serve in fact through my first 2 restaurants
I don't have to now and I don't think at 57 I would get hired anyway
I know it defies logic to think that that much money can be made and granted some don't
those are the ones that job hop you hire them when you need extra help and don't give them many tables till they prove themselves or bun out
you learn who they are being in the industry and that brings the stats down
At one store I had 2 female doctors and 4 policeman and 3 teachers that served part time they were all amazed I know it's crazy it's not at all as portrayed
Go talk with any server and ask them if they would prefer to be paid 20.00 an hour or tips if they don't have to tip out to cooks and bussers my guess is they wouldn't work for that rate of pay unless you happen to talk with a floater

 

[Guttersnipe]

Employers are required by law to include tip income when calculating payroll taxes. They cannot only consider the hourly rate for either the employee owed or the company owed portions. So if this happening, it's highly illegal. Secondly, that doesn't change the tax liability of the employee. The employee owes the same, both in income tax and in payroll tax, irrespective of how much the company withholds. It's not as if the company can shift it's portion of the payroll tax liability to the employee, forcing the employee to pay more.

Everything above is completely correct, but again it's in the execution that things get muddled. A lot of restaurants allocate tips at a set amount for the purposes of calculating withholdings. However, this amount does not always cover the amount that is actually owed on the tips. Another factor is that, if the average gratuity amount for credit card tips is significantly higher than the claimed amount for cash tips, the IRS assumes that the server is under reporting their cash tips and adjusts accordingly. In practice, cash tips are the pool from which servers tip out the kitchen and bus staff, which are deductible, so there is absolutely a legitimate reason for reported cash tips to be a lower percentage. However, unless the taxpayer has been very diligent in keeping records to fill out a Form 4137, they can't claim these deductions. Another thing that happens a lot of times is, if a restaurant's allocated tip amount is too low, when/if a server's returns are audited, they end up owing a lot of back taxes, penalties, and interest.

 

[EliasRDA]

Bad Co., that may be true in your local area or even state but its not true everywhere in the USA. I also worked for quite a few yrs in the business, up to running my own. But here in the beach area of delaware many of the waitrons barely clear 30 thou working fulltime year round & massive overtime during beach season aka summertime.
And they are not floaters or using it as a 2nd job, its just that we get many out of staters who want to pinch every last penny. The locals know that, just as many of us locals personally know many of the waitrons, so we tend to tip better.
Add in the fact, like many states, DE is an "at will" state, meaning they can fire you if they chose too, often with no reason. I was fired from a local big chain coffee store (think green cups & a water creature) for coming back from 3 days off & not cleaning a speck of ahh body waste off the wall behind the toilet, at the start of my shift no less. I got it overturned but when I questioned why I was being singled out to the DM & asst store manager I was told "it only concerns me, not if anyone else got in trouble for it" Huh? What the heck? That is why corp overturned it, offered me my job back there which I wisely refused & avoid now 10 yrs later.

Around here, last I knew, many waitrons start around 2.50-3.00 usd & make up their living wages in tips. Most are HS or college students now too, due to the low wages earned.
Its funny, my mom tips much better than my dad. He is a classic new england swedish skinflint, no idea if his folks were like that, as they passed before I ever thought to notice that stuff. But he was an only child, grew up in the 40's but in NYC area whereas my mom grew up pretty much dirt poor in SE CT in the same time period but with3 sisters & a brother. Big difference in how they were raised. 8-D

 

[sheeplady]

Go talk with any server and ask them if they would prefer to be paid 20.00 an hour or tips if they don't have to tip out to cooks and bussers my guess is they wouldn't work for that rate of pay unless you happen to talk with a floater

That's a big if, I think, since so many places you're required to tip everybody out.


-------------------------

Other than that, I really don't care if my server makes so much money. They do a decent job, work hard, and treat me and my family well that's all I care about. I'm one of those people who doesn't mind paying for high quality service.

I don't make a habit of basing what I pay someone for their service based upon how much money I think it's fair that they make in a year. I don't say to my doctor, "Well, you make $300,000 a year, you don't deserve the $20 copay." I also don't say to my mechanic, "Well, you make $80,000 a year, and that's too much, you don't deserve $40 an hour for labor."

If I'm not going to do that to a mechanic or a doctor then I shouldn't do it to a server. I've had some really idiotic people in both the medical and mechanic categories; far more idiotic than people I've had serve me with much higher stakes. It's a cost of eating out to tip your server. Same as a copay to your doctor or a labor fee by a tradesperson. You don't want to pay it; don't use their services.

 

[rocketeer]

The standard was always 15% of the bill. This was considered a fairly generous tip for good service. I understand today, more is expected, 20% and up.

A couple of years back on a visit to Niagara i bought a meal in a restaurant for slightly over $50 Canadian. Paying with a $100 note I was asked if "Would you like your change sir", Yes please I replied. The assistant then stomped off and almost threw my change on the table. I was going to leave a tip anyway but thought this a good chance to change up a large bill. Was I really expected to leave someone a $40+ tip for a meal? I left something anyway but not as much as if he had been a little more courteous.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Doesn't make sense to me. Maybe your server was having a bad day.

 

[Bad Co]

One can only state what their experience is . I have no personal experience in DE. My home state is an 'at will state ".
While I only have personal experience in Fl, SC, NC, Ky, Tenn, TX. Ohio . All the figures from my expediences are accurate.
My focus here was merely to state that in my 35 years in the business I have found that servers earn way more than people think. Not that I care what they make
I myself am a big tipper regardless if I get good service or not ,or if I like the food or not ,mainly because I know the amount of work involved and have respect for the job. Plus I don't know the restaurants policy on tipping out. Personally I don't know why a restaurant would require that .I have found that most chain stores do and most independent stores don't
I also don't complain at a restaurant or use coupons that cut into the stores profitability.
If I don't like what I was served and if I'm still hungry I simply stop on the way home and grab something .
There is no reason I can see to continue to beat a dead horse . but next time your in a crowded bar or restaurant and you hand the server an extra 5 do you honestly believe that during the course on the evening you were he only one that did that or perhaps could 50 to 100 more people have , Americans are very generous people .

 

[HudsonHawk]

My experience as a waiter in FL, NC and TX is that it is ridiculous on the face to suggest that $100,000 is typical for your average restaurant server. You typically get 4-5 day per week, so that's nearly $400 per day. Even if you averaged 20% (which is silly), you'd have to ring up $2,000 in sales, in about 5 hours. That's averaging around $100/check. Most are far less than half of that. There certainly are some servers who make that at high end restaurants, but you average server at Denny's or Mom and Pop's BBQ isn't making anywhere near that. Not even in the same universe.

 

[Bad Co]

My experiences in those states beg to differ.
Mom & Pops BBQ normally employee teenagers, most are counter service ,and some at detestation locations open only on weekends
Denny" stores average 3.5 million per year that's plenty of volume to sustain that amount i stated of 60-125 k
Unless there are store policies which inhibit it ,could be they cater to a fixed income group I wouldn't know
As for working 4-5 days for 5 hours that would be considered part time and wouldn't justify the choice tables or hours in my store
it also could mean that the restaurant had major turn over and overstaffed . It also could mean that you were given the slow days,,I don't know
There are many factors but your claim "ridiculous" just because you didn't earn that amount is just that ridiculous
It's kinda like McDonald doesn't earn the amount they do because Burger King doesn't
Many servers earn less and many earn way more
If your experience differs form mine we should just agree to disagree
I have no agenda or a bone to pick with anyone I 'm just relating my history over a 35 year period and no amount of quoted statistics can change that history
You should keep in mind that restaurants are opened for a variety of reasons some to loose money for tax purposes ,some to wash money,
some cause the think they have a good recipe , some because they have to support their families, some to flip the reasons a enormous and that will have a direct impact on earnings for the store and hours for the servers

 

[HudsonHawk]

My experiences in those states beg to differ.
Mom & Pops BBQ normally employee teenagers, most are counter service ,and some at detestation locations open only on weekends
Denny" stores average 3.5 million per year that's plenty of volume to sustain that amount i stated of 60-125 k
Unless there are store policies which inhibit it ,could be they cater to a fixed income group I wouldn't know
As for working 4-5 days for 5 hours that would be considered part time and wouldn't justify the choice tables or hours in my store
it also could mean that the restaurant had major turn over and overstaffed .

Call it whatever you like, but that's simply reality for 90% of restaurant servers in the US. And you obviously owned some VERY high end restaurants. Congratulations. But that's not common.

I have no agenda or a bone to pick with anyone I 'm just relating my history over a 35 year period and no amount of quoted statistics can change that history

Your comments and attitude here suggest otherwise.

 

[HudsonHawk]

One can quote any statistic they want I've had 17 restaurants and have lived the life for 35 years
The math speaks for itself example 4 tables 10.00 ticket average 16 seats turned only 8 times is 1280,00 in sales x 15% is 192,00 tips
now if 30 % of that is cash tips that's 57. 60 lets say the server only claims 15.00 in cash tips and pockets the 42.50 for the day the restaurant has no way of knowing
law states the restaurant bring the wages up to 15% of sales overall the server just got a 42.60 a day rise x 6 days restaurant pays on a gross pay of 1152.00 for the week server got an extra 255,00 for the week

First, I've never heard of a law that requires the restaurant make up any difference between what the waiter claims and 15% of their gross sales. Which states require that?

Secondly, what you describe isn't the waiter "earning" that much, it's cheating it out of the restaurant. If you're suggesting that what a waiter can earn and what he can steal from the restaurant can add up to $100,000, I don't have any personal experience with that.

 

[nick123]

I graciously tip every time I go out.

I once went to a Chili's restaurant with some friends. The service was horrible and it took over twenty minutes to get drinks, but they were packed. Not having a dime on me, I didn't order anything, but my friend bought me a drink. When we were finished the guys paid the bill without a tip of any kind. It took me a few days to get over my guilt-had I had some cash, I would have left a tip.

 

[Guttersnipe]

First, I've never heard of a law that requires the restaurant make up any difference between what the waiter claims and 15% of their gross sales. Which states require that?

I've encountered situations with a slightly different fact patterns, but they are possibly applicable here. Many hair salons run into trouble when the tips declared by their stylists are lower than the sum of gratuities shown in credit card records. When this occurs, the salon owner is responsible for the tax liability on the tips not declared by the stylists. I'm aware of this occurring in Oregon and California, but I believe the tax liabilities were owed at the federal level.

 

[Guttersnipe]

I graciously tip every time I go out.

I once went to a Chili's restaurant with some friends. The service was horrible and it took over twenty minutes to get drinks, but they were packed. Not having a dime on me, I didn't order anything, but my friend bought me a drink. When we were finished the guys paid the bill without a tip of any kind. It took me a few days to get over my guilt-had I had some cash, I would have left a tip.

In a situation like this, it's important to remember that the slow service is probably not server's fault. If a restaurant is really busy, the bartenders and kitchen are usually slammed, which can cause a delay getting orders ready. Servers usually run food and drinks to tables the very second they are ready.

 

[nick123]

In a situation like this, it's important to remember that the slow service is probably not server's fault. If a restaurant is really busy, the bartenders and kitchen are usually slammed, which can cause a delay getting orders ready. Servers usually run food and drinks to tables the very second they are ready.

I figured so. Which is why I felt uncomfortable for not leaving a tip. They did their best. My buddies tried to make a protest out of it without seeing the circumstances.

 

[Bad Co]

I'm not sure what attitude and comments your speaking of
I'm sorry you didn't make that much while serving ,but reality is servers can
I assure my stores were not high end
I just made sure the servers that wanted to work were given the best opportunity to earn , were trained to up sell and engaged the customers . Not just go through the motions .
That kind of earnings were common in my stores ,And it"s common in my sons stores as we speak
I only have a small deli now in one of the worst locations one can imagine, A test to see if the concept has growth potential, no servers counter service only, and yesterday the 1st shift the cashier earned 22% of gross sales just by engaging the customer as they were trained to . Granted I went through several till I got this one . i would say that's pretty good just for ringing someone up . It can be done . Common for everyone don't know that , It was for my employees and that's why I stand by my statements . How other people run their business or file their taxes is no concern of mine. I've given you an insight into the industry take it for what it's worth

 

[HudsonHawk]

I've encountered situations with a slightly different fact patterns, but they are possibly applicable here. Many hair salons run into trouble when the tips declared by their stylists are lower than the sum of gratuities shown in credit card records. When this occurs, the salon owner is responsible for the tax liability on the tips not declared by the stylists. I'm aware of this occurring in Oregon and California, but I believe the tax liabilities were owed at the federal level.

This should be easily spotted and reported by the salon. They have to submit a record of credit card tips, and when the employees claims don't at least match that, the employee should get a visit from the IRS. Both are responsible for their share of payroll taxes on the tips, but the employee is the one responsible for his/her income tax.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I've given you an insight into the industry take it for what it's worth

And I've done the same.

 

[sheeplady]

In a situation like this, it's important to remember that the slow service is probably not server's fault. If a restaurant is really busy, the bartenders and kitchen are usually slammed, which can cause a delay getting orders ready. Servers usually run food and drinks to tables the very second they are ready.

Not only that, if a server has too many tables to adequately attend to them in a timely manner or there are too few bartenders (or bar backs) to mix drinks that is management's fault. I never fault a server for slow (but correct temperature food) when it is crowded or for slow service when they have too many tables.