War movie editing errors

[MPicciotto]

Back on topic. Enemy at the Gates. Quite an enjoyable movie, it had it's "Hollywoodification" of things. with the over dramatized plot. But then I noticed a supreme effort at accuracy with things like the rifle in the wolf hunting scene being a sporterized 1891 model and not a later 91/30. The correct Russian cigarettes. But then I noticed post-war ammo pouches. I find some of that funny. Somebody went out of their way to have the correct cigarettes but not ammo pouches...

Matt

 

[JPH]

Joseph

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Also in Midway there a scene where a Japanese "Emily" flying boat is shot down. They used a rear view shot of... are you ready? a C-130 Hercules! Then they switched to footage of an actual Emily getting flamed.

 

[Phantomfixer]

Hollywood rarely gets history correct. That really was not the issue or budget for props. The thread mophed into that area. I was kinda looking for an example... a guy has a mustache then the next scene he doesn't then he does again. To me this is poor editing. Not so much about having the "correct" holster, piano, or banjo. But it has been cool to read the different posts. I was watching Fighter squadron when I noticed the stripes and the jeep. I thought it would be cool to see if there were anymore like that. I am sure there are....

 

[John in Covina]

I was kinda looking for an example... a guy has a mustache then the next scene he doesn't then he does again. To me this is poor editing.

That example is under an area called "continuity" and is part of the Script Supervisor's job to make the least amount of these errors as possible. Prior to digital cameras many script supervisors took Polaroid (instant) pictures of the people, costumes, sets and such to match things up better after a break or resuming filming the next day.

What happens is that over a series of shots with multiple takes details get skewed.

A common thing to watch for is a scene where someone is smoking a cigarette and the cigarette changes lengths from short to long as it was replaced for various shots and takes.

Placement of items on a table or desk get shifted over time but in the shots things have moved without any indication as to how.

Jewelry, such as a woman takes her ring off then it's on in the next shot, then off again.

Tracks in the dirt- it's a chase scene and you can see footprints or tire tracks from previous takes.

The same hubcap comes off 2 or 3 times during a car chase.

In Close Encounters one of the cars has different state license plates as it gets driven to the Devils Tower.

I haven't seen it - maybe urban legend but supposedly there is a scene in a movie about either Biblical characters or ancient Rome where someone in the background forgot to take off their wrist watch.

In a fight scene an item like a piece of furniture gets broken but you catch a glimpse of it unbroken later in the fight as shots and takes get rearranged during editing too.

There are films (I think in Coma) where you can see the boom mike in a bunch of scenes.

Today they can digitally "fix" a lot of stuff. In ET they replaced the government agents guns with flashlights and walkie talkies to be PC.

 

[Effingham]

 

[Atomic Age]

I haven't seen it - maybe urban legend but supposedly there is a scene in a movie about either Biblical characters or ancient Rome where someone in the background forgot to take off their wrist watch.

There are films (I think in Coma) where you can see the boom mike in a bunch of scenes.

The roman film in question is Spartacus. But the shot didn't actually make it into the movie. The error was discovered the next day in dailies, and the scene was re staged about 3 days later at a cost of several hundred thousand dollars.

The issue of the boom mike in the picture is rarely an actual production mistake, but rather a projection mistake. Films that are shot in the 1.85:1 aspect ratio are actually shot on a full 4x3 frame. The tops and bottoms of the frame are then cropped, or matted in projection to get the wide screen frame. If the film is framed wrong, you can see things you aren't supposed to like lights and microphones. I once saw Beverly Hills Cop projected in a theater that only had a 4X3 screen, so they showed everything open matte with nothing to block the top and bottom of the frame. You wouldn't believe how much stuff you saw a the top of the frame.

Some filmmakers actually do what they call a "hard matte" in the camera, so that the top and bottom of the frames can't be projected wrong.

Doug

 

[Phantomfixer]

Jeepers Creepers (not so scary movie) had the boom mike at the top of one scene. I thought it was left on purpose to add some humor to an otherwise dull movie

John thanks for giving the thread a technical term. But that is the kind of stuff I was looking for.. The x wing fighter is cool too : )

 

[John in Covina]

The issue of the boom mike in the picture is rarely an actual production mistake, but rather a projection mistake. Films that are shot in the 1.85:1 aspect ratio are actually shot on a full 4x3 frame. The tops and bottoms of the frame are then cropped, or matted in projection to get the wide screen frame. If the film is framed wrong, you can see things you aren't supposed to like lights and microphones. I once saw Beverly Hills Cop projected in a theater that only had a 4X3 screen, so they showed everything open matte with nothing to block the top and bottom of the frame. You wouldn't believe how much stuff you saw a the top of the frame.

Some filmmakers actually do what they call a "hard matte" in the camera, so that the top and bottom of the frames can't be projected wrong.

Doug

I did not know that they released films that weren't the hard matte type. I have seen some pieces of film such as with deleted scenes and work up examples where there was timing info left in.

 

[John in Covina]

Mistakes happen all the time but if caught they can be fixed by a little trickery.

Although not in a film one of my favorites either a boo-boo or a joke was in a painting! I think it was Cigar Aficionado wrote about this in an article that someone in the late 1800's or early 1900's painted a version of "The Last Supper" and included cigar cutters on the table!

 

[John in Covina]

The reference to hard matting made me think of another one that is funny in film, the use of a vignette.

In modern films it gets used once in a while, in the silent era it was used to varying degrees. I believe that Martin Scorsese used D.W. Griffith's Intolerance for a number of examples of really clever and dramatic use of vignettes.

The film image is shaped with a specific cut out area, like when you see a scene where it is supposed to be looking through binoculars and the view is through a binocular shaped cut out. Anyone that has looked through binoculars knows that is not what the view is like but the suggestion of binocular shaped view was accepted as a clear reference to using binoculars.

 

[Atomic Age]

I did not know that they released films that weren't the hard matte type. I have seen some pieces of film such as with deleted scenes and work up examples where there was timing info left in.

Actually the vast majority of 1.85:1 films are shot open matte. Hard matte films are really pretty rare.

I saw a sneak preview of Pretty Woman about 4 months before it opened. It had LOTS of uncolor timed shots and even missing shots. I worked on the film "Fear" in the mid 90s. I probably saw that film 30 times as they were mixing the sound. It was interesting to watch as shots would show up and be added into the film.

Doug

 

[Atomic Age]

The reference to hard matting made me think of another one that is funny in film, the use of a vignette.

In modern films it gets used once in a while, in the silent era it was used to varying degrees. I believe that Martin Scorsese used D.W. Griffith's Intolerance for a number of examples of really clever and dramatic use of vignettes.

The film image is shaped with a specific cut out area, like when you see a scene where it is supposed to be looking through binoculars and the view is through a binocular shaped cut out. Anyone that has looked through binoculars knows that is not what the view is like but the suggestion of binocular shaped view was accepted as a clear reference to using binoculars.

Vignetting pretty much went out with the introduction of sound. In silent films the vignette was often used to emphasize something in the frame, and draw the eye to something important. I think it went out for two reasons, one the audience became more sophisticated about the language of film and no longer needed to be lead around, and two the use of sound in some ways took over that job, allowing them to emphasize things in the frame with sound rather than visual.

The vignette did make it into the 40s and 50s for things like a line in a news paper where they wanted you to read a particular sentence.

Doug

 

[John in Covina]

I saw a sneak preview of Pretty Woman about 4 months before it opened. It had LOTS of uncolor timed shots and even missing shots. I worked on the film "Fear" in the mid 90s. I probably saw that film 30 times as they were mixing the sound. It was interesting to watch as shots would show up and be added into the film. Doug

Makes me think of early teaser trailers that have scenes that aren't in the film. One of the Twister trailers has a scene where from the point of view vehicle I think it is a tractor tire is just about to smash into it.

 

[John in Covina]

Vignetting pretty much went out with the introduction of sound. In silent films the vignette was often used to emphasize something in the frame, and draw the eye to something important. I think it went out for two reasons, one the audience became more sophisticated about the language of film and no longer needed to be lead around, and two the use of sound in some ways took over that job, allowing them to emphasize things in the frame with sound rather than visual. The vignette did make it into the 40s and 50s for things like a line in a news paper where they wanted you to read a particular sentence. Doug

Perhaps as different focal length lenses were developed they moved more to the idea of a close up to focus on something. As an editing tool it vignetting might allow the use of an existing medium or long shot and swing the focus to specific action as oppose to going back to reshoot that part of a scene.

 

[Matt_the_chap]

I think Pearl Harbour really takes the biscuit for editing errors, what with the battle scene lasting longer than the actual raid itself.

 

[Atomic Age]

I think Pearl Harbour really takes the biscuit for editing errors, what with the battle scene lasting longer than the actual raid itself.

Commander Fuchida ordered Tora, Tora, Tora over his radio at 7:49am starting the attack on Pearl Harbor. The last planes from the second wave drop the last of their bombs and the attack is over by 9:45am. Almost 2 hours. The attack sequence in Pearl Harbor is about 45 min long.

However longer or shorter, I wouldn't call that an editing error, its just expanding or contracting time, which movies do all the time.

Doug

 

[MPicciotto]

Commander Fuchida ordered Tora, Tora, Tora over his radio at 7:49am starting the attack on Pearl Harbor. The last planes from the second wave drop the last of their bombs and the attack is over by 9:45am. Almost 2 hours. The attack sequence in Pearl Harbor is about 45 min long.

However longer or shorter, I wouldn't call that an editing error, its just expanding or contracting time, which movies do all the time.

Doug

You mean like in the movie "The Dear Hunter" where the Orthodox wedding scene appears to have been shot in real time, no compression at all?

Matt

P.S. Ok, ok I know that's not quite true, Russian weddings can last for several days.

 

[fl&wvmike]

Come on folks, give these movie people a break ! You can't assemble a field full of P-51 Mustangs, nowdays. Like one guy stated, even if you could, they would have the wrong tires on them.
Give them credit for assembling what they do put together.
Now, Contintuity errors are something else. Those are just mistakes, that someone should have caught. Benny Hill used that in some of his skits.
Fl&WVMike

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

I haven't seen it - maybe urban legend but supposedly there is a scene in a movie about either Biblical characters or ancient Rome where someone in the background forgot to take off their wrist watch.

Scipione l'Africano; Italy, 1937.
A movie about Scipio "Africanus" and Punic wars, strongly supported by the Duce himself.
The "legionary with a wristwatch" is legendary in italian movie industry...

ciao!