Vitruvian Man

[majormajor]

Leonardo Da Vinci was, in my book, a pretty cool guy. He is still acknowledged to be probably the single most talented person who has ever lived.

He drew Vitruvian Man in 1490, to illustrate the elegance of the proportions of the human body. Back in the late 60's, I spent many an hour, whilst at Art College, studying the beautiful symmetry of this drawing (life classes every Monday morning - what a way to get over the weekend! :eeek.

So what has this got to do with FL Outerwear?

Well, there has been much debate recently above the positioning of HalfBelts on jackets, and references and opinions from a few quarters regarding the position of the "natural waist".

If you look at the picture, hopefully you can see where the natural waist actually is (the arrows might help ). Obviously, Vitruvian man didn't drink much beer, or eat too many hamburgers, so his torso is pretty well defined.

I have seen posts on here that infer that the "natural waist" is somewhere below the navel. This is not the case. The narrowest point is actually above the navel. Truly "high-waisted" trousers can go right up to there if desired, - and THAT is the correct place for a halfbelt. ON THE NATURAL WAIST.

If you want the halfbelt to actually function as it was intended - i.e to pull the garment in at the narrowest part of the torso, then that is where it needs to be.

OK, Vitruvian Man didn't ride a M/C, so I guess you are gonna have to compromise the design of your jacket in order to give you protection when riding. That's cool, if that's what you need. And you will see deviations on a few old jackets. But that is what they are - deviations from the norm. Or maybe just badly tailored ones that didn't ever fit properly.

But that is NOT gonna move your "natural waist" to somewhere below the navel. As Leo demonstrated. It is simply not there.

I hope that helps

 

[Fanch]

I suppose between the iliac crest and the bottom of the rib cage.

 

[jack miranda]

I concur, mm. That is the correct position of the half-belt and buckles on my new HB. Perfectly placed.

 

[Sloan1874]

Looks spot on to me. Wonder if Vetruvian man could persuade someone to mod a jacket to accommodate that extra pair of arms...? Doubt he'd get sale or return though!

 

[majormajor]

Looks spot on to me. Wonder if Vetruvian man could persuade someone to mod a jacket to accommodate that extra pair of arms...? Doubt he'd get sale or return though!

 

[Davy Crockett]

You could offset the price of the extra arms by doing away with all pockets, and just use two of your hands to carry your everyday things!

D

 

[Plumbline]

Lets not get confused between "Anatomical Waist" - smallest circumfrence of the abdomen ( between hipbone and ribcage ... which for some men and women would be some distance BELOW the naval) and "natural waist" which is a tailoring term referring to where you would have the belt-line of your trousers (regardless of style) ... hence the term "hi-waist or rise " trousers and moder "low-waist or rise" trousers.

"In modern clothing the region referred to as the waist is considerably below the waist as defined anatomically. With the advent of trousers and skirts that do not require support from above (braces or straps), the clothing waist moved down to a position where the body starts to expand to form the buttocks and a support is therefore available.

The waistline of clothing is now generally well below the anatomical waist"

so I guess ... as mentioned many times before ... it depends where you wear your trousers !!!

My last words on the subject ... it just isn't worth the hassle

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Exactly MM. Good informative post..!!
HD

 

[sal]

That is where the pants of the early twentieth century were designed to lay. Man I love that look.

 

[pauleway]

That is where the pants of the early twentieth century were designed to lay. Man I love that look.

Now they are just below the knee's!!!

 

[Plumbline]

 

[ButteMT61]

I think those that feel the "natural waist" is below the navel most likely have no natural waist left - i.e., a nice big gut. Watch a few old movies - especially ones with guys in military dress or dancers dressed up. They had high-waisted pants and looked rather dashing. A jacket looked great over such a wardrobe because the guys were in shape. it's that simple. We keep seeing guys b*tch about a bad jacket when a gym membership is the fix. I know, I was there, and it indeed makes the difference.

 

[thunderw21]

Good thread. The below piece is relevant to this discussion, even if it is about suits rather than jackets:

http://mrlapel.blogspot.com/2012/10/back-to-basics-proportionality.html

 

[nick123]

Do not worry about the fit of our jackets, the Vitruvian Man will rescue us!

 

[Ishmael]

I think MM is spot on with Vitruvian man. And I think that is basically where my the belt on my jacket sits. IMO, this placement of the belt works wonderfully to, as MM put it, draw the jacket in at the natural waist. It's a brilliant design, when done right.

 

[Sloan1874]

Have to say the back of that jacket is great.

 

[Rudie]

Good thread. The below piece is relevant to this discussion, even if it is about suits rather than jackets:

http://mrlapel.blogspot.com/2012/10/back-to-basics-proportionality.html

Great article, Will. I really enjoyed it.

 

[ButteMT61]

Ishmael, yep, that's it. And that sleeve between your legs is an odd sight until my eyes focused properly lol

 

[Ishmael]

^^LoL! I had never noticed that. That's more than a little frightening.

p.s. I'll have to put up a more recent pic. This one is actually from before I bought it. I think it has molded to me quite a bit since then........

 

[HoosierDaddy]

..And here's Aero's Hvy FQHH right out of the box (side adjusters on half belt).