Vintage trains

[2jakes]

 

[Fading Fast]

Great video, thank you for posting.

Two things stood out - how crazy was the section of track that abutted the tenements - you'd lose your hand if you stuck it out the window at the wrong time? And how even more crazy is it that they used to use steam engines showering hot cinders onto the street?

 

[2jakes]

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

They sound very interesting, thank you.

 

[Blackthorn]

Tracy, Minnesota, circa 1899. "Engine of the South Dakota division, Chicago & North Western Ry."

 

[Trenchfriend]

@Blackthorn
Awesome!

 

[GHT]

Ever since the mid 19th century there has been express trains running from London to the two Scottish cities of Glasgow & Edinburgh. The railway companies quickly became aware of naming their trains with evocative sounding names. Arguably the most famous of these is The Flying Scotsman.

Most people are unaware that the entire train is called The Flying Scotsman because the naming of the 1923 built steam engine, Flying Scotsman, caused such ambiguity. There were other clever names that gave a hint of far off places, like The Cornish Riviera, The Brighton Belle & The Royal Scotsman.

The Flying Scotsman had many famous steam engines hauling it back in the golden age of steam, perhaps the most famous being Mallard, the steam engine that set the world record for steam at 126mph. A record that still stands today. But it's the steam engine Flying Scotsman that pulls the crowds. The following photos are of 1850 Flying Scotsman the train, an early 1928 Flying Scotsman the engine and a few of later shots of Flying Scotsman, the engine restored:
Note that the original photo shows the engine's number as 2547, later it is 4472 and then it becomes 60103. It's a long story, but Wiki does give it a good try.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Great article above about Flying Scotsman steam loco. It still runs on the main line with special charter trains and I was lucky enough to be on one such train last week. It was an excellent day out and the locomotive performed very well indeed.

 

[GHT]

One of the most exclusive and evocative names given to a train service was the English: "Golden Arrow." Translated from the French: "Flèche d’Or," It ran from London to Paris via Dover and a ferry crossing.

The French train, the Flèche d’Or, was an all-first-class Pullman service and ran from Calais to Paris. The Southern Railway introduced the equivalent between London Victoria and Dover while simultaneously launching a new first class only ship, the Canterbury, for the ferry crossing. The train usually consisted of 10 British Pullman cars, hauled by one of the Southern Railway’s steam locomotives, later diesel, and took 98 minutes to travel between London and Dover. Because of the impact of air travel and 'market forces' on the underlying economy, ordinary first- and third-class carriages were added. Similarly the first-class-only ferry, Canterbury, was modified to allow other classes of passenger.

As a footnote, since the opening of the Channel Tunnel, the travel time between London & Paris has come down to two hours. Less than the flight time when you take into account the amount of time spent at the airport before boarding your plane.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I Think some of the Pullman carriages in the UK & France are still in service, either on the private Belmond British Pullman and European Wagons Lits (CIWL) luxury train, (along with some carriages from the Orient Express) or on some of the Private Heritage Railways here in the UK.

 

[GHT]

^^^^Stevie, go to this thread, scroll through the photos. Don't be put off by some early pics marked "Photobucket." There's plenty that are not.
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-orient-express.70706/

 

[GHT]

George Stephenson was a British civil engineer and mechanical engineer. Renowned as the "Father of Railways", Stephenson was considered by the Victorians a great example of diligent application and thirst for improvement. Self-help advocate Samuel Smiles particularly praised his achievements. His rail gauge of 4 feet 8 1⁄2 inches sometimes called "Stephenson gauge", is the standard gauge by name and by convention for most of the world's railways.

Pioneered by Stephenson, rail transport was one of the most important technological inventions of the 19th century and a key component of the Industrial Revolution. Built by George and his son Robert's company Robert Stephenson and Company, the Locomotion No. 1 is the first steam locomotive to carry passengers on a public rail line, the Stockton and Darlington Railway in 1825. George also built the first public inter-city railway line in the world to use locomotives, the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, which opened in 1830.

By the time Brunel had completed the London to Bristol line in 1854, the money men had sunk their capital into Stephenson's standard gauge. Brunel, whose vision was to build the line to the Welsh coast for passengers to transfer to steam ships and travel on to New York, chose a gauge of 7 ft 1⁄4 in. the quarter inch being the overhang of the engine's drive rods. Brunel's inspiration for his broad gauge width came from the seven feet wide canal barges, they had proved to be able to carry huge and varied loads of freight. Brunel's vision was too far sighted for the money men and eventually he conceded and converted his broad gauge to standard.

How different the world's railways would have been if Brunel's gauge had been the preferred choice is open to speculation. These two photos show the gauge differences, as reconstructed at Didcot Rail Museum, with both broad and standard, and an early train of the broad gauge days.

 

[Mr. Nantus]

Stumbled across this awesome pic and thought others would enjoy it to (and, perhaps, even get some color about it from ChiTownScion):

View attachment 118998

It is the EL alive and well run by the CTA,(Chicago Transit Authority). It runs north west and south of the city. Here it is traveling the loop. I think on Wabash Ave. Part of the downtown is known as "the loop". Stauffers restaurant is on the right, My mother would take me there to eat and teach me good table manners. The picture seems to be about 1965.

 

[GHT]

Britain’s highest main line railway station is on the market for only the third time. Lovingly restored station house has 14 daily services and regular steam trains. It's handy for the train but a bit of a trek to the shops. Set in isolated splendour amid the Pennine fells, Britain’s highest main line railway station is on the market for only the third time since it was built in 1877.
The lovingly-restored station house at Dent, Cumbria, is priced at £425,000. The nearest village may be four miles away but the station is a rail buff’s dream, with 14 daily services and regular steam trains at weekends, including excursions by famous locomotives such as the Flying Scotsman. This link will show you the full details.
https://www.foscl.org.uk/sites/foscl.org.uk/files/attachments/Dent Station For Sale - Brochure.pdf

 

[Fading Fast]

⇧ That is very cool and quirky and of-the-period and railroady, but that's a lot of trains to have go by each day. And I'm confused - if the trains are still stopping there (which is implied), then why isn't the station in use anymore / is there a new station nearby or do passengers just use the platform but not the station (which would be odd and not very private)? That said, it is a beautify looking station and property.

 

[GHT]

⇧ That is very cool and quirky and of-the-period and railroady, but that's a lot of trains to have go by each day. And I'm confused - if the trains are still stopping there (which is implied), then why isn't the station in use anymore / is there a new station nearby or do passengers just use the platform but not the station (which would be odd and not very private)? That said, it is a beautify looking station and property.

To understand your question you need to go back to the 1960's when we lost 11,000 miles of our rail network. It was deemed to be underused and therefore expensive, so it was ripped up. However some lines destined for closure survived, this particular line was one of them. Many of the lines that closed passed into the hands of volunteers who rescued them from demolition and run them today as heritage lines. Those destined for the chop but survived had some of their infrastructure sold off, like railway stations, this station being a case in point. At the time of construction the station was only put there as an office for the railway company and a stopping point for steam engines to take on water. You can see from the photographs that there's no community for it to serve. It wasn't unknown in Victorian times to have such remote stations. As there was no motor cars the train was everyone's choice of travel. So when the rich and titled went to Scotland in late August for the grouse shooting, they caught the train and alighted in the Scottish Highlands at one of our country's remotest railway stations.

This particular station known as Dent has been in private hands for over fifty years. Whether or not the trains still stop there I know not, but I can tell you that it won't be on the market long. If it doesn't stay a private dwelling someone will turn it into some sort of quaint Victorian tea rooms, (tea rooms was how the Victorians described a cafe,) or it could become a restaurant or whatever the authorities accept when planning consent is given.

 

[Fading Fast]

To understand your question you need to go back to the 1960's when we lost 11,000 miles of our rail network. It was deemed to be underused and therefore expensive, so it was ripped up. However some lines destined for closure survived, this particular line was one of them. Many of the lines that closed passed into the hands of volunteers who rescued them from demolition and run them today as heritage lines. Those destined for the chop but survived had some of their infrastructure sold off, like railway stations, this station being a case in point. At the time of construction the station was only put there as an office for the railway company and a stopping point for steam engines to take on water. You can see from the photographs that there's no community for it to serve. It wasn't unknown in Victorian times to have such remote stations. As there was no motor cars the train was everyone's choice of travel. So when the rich and titled went to Scotland in late August for the grouse shooting, they caught the train and alighted in the Scottish Highlands at one of our country's remotest railway stations.

This particular station known as Dent has been in private hands for over fifty years. Whether or not the trains still stop there I know not, but I can tell you that it won't be on the market long. If it doesn't stay a private dwelling someone will turn it into some sort of quaint Victorian tea rooms, (tea rooms was how the Victorians described a cafe,) or it could become a restaurant or whatever the authorities accept when planning consent is given.

Thank you - great explanation and great information. The place has charm and character, so as you note, I'm sure it will go fast for some use. Shame that so much rail was ripped out.

Do you think, if all that rail that was ripped out had been maintained, it would be used today or is Britain, like the US, too much of an individual car country to revive its rail use?

The US, unfortunately, never built out enough passenger rail, but we did have a decent network until, like you, we ripped some out or allowed it to fall into disrepair. Also, in the '50s, we decided to put our infrastructure spending into roads and highways, so we don't have even the ghost of enough rail to have a robust passenger network today even if the will was there.

 

[GHT]

Do you think, if all that rail that was ripped out had been maintained, it would be used today or is Britain, like the US, too much of an individual car country to revive its rail use?

It's difficult to answer this, but as a speculative guess I would say that about 50% would be used. Some lines ran almost parallel to existing ones, due to over expansion in the 19th century. You could say that the railways were the Victorians dot com bubble. But a lot of lines could easily have been utilised as local trains, run like London's underground system, but overground instead.
There was a great sense of community loss when the railway lines went, there was also a ground swell of opinion that the track beds could be mothballed, for at least 50 years, perhaps turned into bridleways, cycle paths or even bus only routes.
What happened is political so I must tread carefully. The politician in charge was known as The Minister for Transport. His name was Earnest Marples, he also happened to be a director of: Marples Ridgeway, civil engineers and renowned road builders. I won't comment further on that.
Marples employed a civil servant name of Richard Beeching, and it was Beeching who recommended the cuts. Beeching's name is so synonymous with the destruction of our railway system that he is still vilified some fifty odd years after the event. Clever Marples to set up a patsy whose ass gets kicked. Even today when there's talk of opening a former railway line, the word used is pre-Beeching, or post-Beeching.

As for rail use today, we do love our cars, or to be more presice, the convenience of our cars. But traffic levels are so high now that local journeys are taking far too long. We need a rapid, reliable local rail system, just like most big cities subway trains.

I've driven on US interstate highways, our system is known as motorways, they are much of a muchness. The UK, is about twice the size of the State of Florida, but where Florida has a population of just over twenty million, ours is far more than double, in fact it's treble. So it's obvious why our small Island is so crowded. The motorway network was built between the end of the 1950's through to the early 80's. That makes for a large section of the population who have only ever commuted by road, whether you could entice them out of their cars is hard to say. And as for my generation, many view rail travel through rose tinted spectacles, enjoying the sight of a steam train as it thunders by, but would they get on a modern, clean and quiet train? Anybody's guess.

 

[GHT]

Just off the south coast of England is a small, diamond shape island called: The Isle of Wight. It was Queen Victoria's favourite retreat. She and Albert had a palatial villa built there, it's called Osborne House. One of the oldest Victorian railways, now a heritage line, probably carried the royal party back in the 19th century. That railway still runs 19th century steam engines and rolling stock, here's just a few photos. By the way, the remaining rail lines on the Isle of Wight now run ex-London Underground trains.

 

[GHT]

The coming of the railway brought great wealth to the UK, we were, during most of the 19th century, the richest country in the world. That wealth meant that nothing was impossible to achieve when it came to yet more rail construction. A prime example of this is The Ribblehead Viaduct. 24 magnificent arches spanning the Ribble valley. These two photos give you some idea of the majesty of the structure. If you click on the link you will see a slide show of 37 photos taken from all angles and distances. It was built by hand, if you Google Ribblehead Viaduct you will read the full story of it's construction.

https://www.visitcumbria.com/carlse...gallery/e75b75e6d36ab90557e5a860ec1f3361/4564