Vintage Suitings: Discussions of, and sourcing modern equivalents, etc.

[PeterB]

On the subject of vintage, as opposed to modern suits, I have been checking some designs and wondering about gorges. In the picture attached, from the 49 Sears catalogue, the gorge looks quite low (the seam between collar and lapels is fairly low, and points diagonally, rather than horizontally. Was there a standard for this among bold look suits and jackets? I am asking because I want to take some material to the tailor, and need to advise him how to get the gorge lines right.

 

[brendanm720]

Brendan, like many other members here, you are a veritable mine of haberdashery data.

Thank you, but there are others who know far more than I do. I'm still learning things.

The Donegal is a good weave, I think. Sterling Hayden wears a Donegal jacket in Kubrick's "The Killing", which was on TCM the other night.

I like it.

Good for you, getting hold of those heavier jackets. I have just sent an old jacket of my father's (about 1955) to the cleaners, in a kind of light grey and brown weave -- a sort of tweedy pattern, but a worsted, if you know what I mean. It fits me, but the trousers are too narrow in the waist. The old man is a lot thinner than me. I asked him why he wanted to part with it, and he said he had worn it enough. I imagine it was second hand when he bought it, shortly after coming out of the army. I will wear it as a jacket, as it looks sufficiently tweedy / rustic to be a jacket, if you have never seen the pants.

It more or less stands up by itself, and has very narrow arm holes. If I can, I will take a snap shot of it. 60 years old already, and I plan to wear it until I am gone. If I lose enough weight this summer I may just fit into the pants, which are the right length (which makes my current shape frustrating). So to cut a long story short, the suit is not exactly tweed, and not exactly worsted. The fabric weight, I would guess, is around 18 oz.

Sounds like a sport suit. No reason not to wear the jacket as an sport coat. It could still be tweed, just a lighter weight one. How does it feel -- is it kind of scratchy or is it smooth?

You may be able to let the pants out... Depending on how much fabric there is. (You can usually go about 2" in either direction and have them still look okay)

My grandfather's pinstripe suit, 1936 vintage, is about the same weight, but sadly too large for me.

That's a shame. Those 30's suits are usually pretty nice, if they're in good condition.

 

[PeterB]

Brendan, I may try to get the pants enlarged, but will have to check how much cloth there is along the inside seams. While not bespoke, the suit was certainly made to last. If I pull at the arm seems, there is no daylight between the cloth edges. We need to remember that suits were everyday wear back in England at that time, and were built for strength, not just for using in the office. Figure the durability of Levi jeans with the style of Austin Reed. They may have used stronger thread, as well.

 

[Soldat]

Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this question but here it is. Is there a vendor or anybody in the United States or the UK producing vintage suits? I've been trying to modify modern clothing to look vintage with very little success. Any ideas?

Soldat

 

[PeterB]

Soldat, from what I have seen around this forum, Indy Magnoli can do it mail order, and Rocaca in London looks fairly good. But it depends what you mean by vintage, because that could cover anything from 1900 to about 1965 (others can correct me here). For what it is worth, my own experience tells me that very high priced, bespoke tailors will have old patterns kicking around their cutting rooms, and you may find elderly family-owned shops in major cities who have the same, and actually learned their skills back in the late 40s or early 50s. I imagine that such people are like gold. If they have the patterns, or understand the cut that you are looking for, they should be able to produce good results, particularly if you take them a model to copy / imitate.

Modifying modern clothing to look vintage is almost impossible, in my rather limited experience. For example, jackets today are cut with very narrow lapels, high gorges and fitted checks, short skirts and other features. They might be modified to look like Edwardian jackets, but not much else, I would think. Modern trousers are designed for eunuchs, and hang from below the hips, so cannot really be modified to look vintage.

Another factor is the fabric -- as this Forum explains, vintage suits are heavier than modern suits.

So one is left with reproduction vintage, such as what Magnoli and Rocaca make, or genuine vintage, from the thrifts, or bespoke vintage, using the services of a capable tailor. The capable tailor need not be Savile Row priced. There are plenty of good tailors left in the US and UK who can turn out perfectly good garments. If you are going bespoke as much for the design as the quality of finishing, there is no need to pay the highest prices. Magnoli suits, for example, are very reasonable, and seem to be good remakes, and he offers extensive MTM / customization options.

Hope that helps.

 

[Two Types]

Soldat: somewhere on the FL is a thread entitled 'Show us your vintage inspired suits' (or something like that). That should have a few leads about companies able to make new suits that approximate the styles you are looking for.

 

[Papperskatt]

Swedish vintage store A. Marchesan have recently started producing new "vintage" suits. This is their first model, a 1909 linen 3 piece.

 

[herringbonekid]

gents, this thread is about suiting fabrics, not suits.


discussions of modern vintage-inspired suits here please: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?66098-Show-us-your-vintage-inspired-suits

 

[Papperskatt]

I'm looking for some heavy wool twill in tan/wheat or similar colour. Preferably not too expensive.

I have no idea where to look so I'd appreciate it if anyone had any suggestions.

 

[Rudie]

Dugdale have cavalry twill.

 

[Qirrel]

Here's an option from huddersfield cloth: http://www.huddersfieldcloth.com/Product/1681

The price is £38 a metre if I remember correctly.

 

[Papperskatt]

Thanks for the suggestions, Rudie and Qirrel. I'm not a fan of the look of cavalry twill with its wide wales, though.

Here's a pic of exactly what I'm after:

 

[herringbonekid]

looks similar to 'Keeper's Tweed' (at least similar to the swatch i have).

or this from Bookster:

 

[Two Types]

Keepers tweed is fantastic: super-heavy and super-strong. Perfect for a Swedish winter suit.

 

[volvomeister13]

My budget's not quite there yet for getting custom suits made, but as part of my research in the meantime I wrote to Harrison's of Edinburgh for swatches from their P&B Universal line and their W. Bill linen line. The P&B fabrics are great, mostly around 15/16 oz., and really remind me of vintage suitings in their weight. I'm not sure they have the same density as vintage cloth, however. Unfortunately, the patterns are rather dark and staid, but some of them I like.

At first I thought some of the very dark navy or black fabrics could be suitable for making a suit like the lovely dark suit posted by fellow lounger Dostioffsky here http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?60319-The-Thread-to-Display-Your-1930s-Suits/page39, but I think the fabric on his has much more surface interest. Overall, these patterns are rather boring compared to vintage suits. I wish the brown fabric wasn't so dark; then it would be more obviously brown.

I think the Dugdale, Dormeuil, and Huddersfield fabrics have much more fun and vintage-esque patterns, but they are all around 12oz. at most, so I'm a little skeptical as to their weight. I haven't gotten swatches yet, though. Then again, not all of my vintage suits are extra heavy and here in California I'm guessing fabrics tended to be lighter than many in northern Europe and other colder climates.



This one is actually a very dark brown in real life.

 

[herringbonekid]

Volv, for me those 'cable' stripes (74105 & 74101) are just a bit too bold. they don't have the more diffuse look that chalk stripes on flannel have.
the pinstripes (74129 & 74130) are better. they look subtler and more 'vintage'.

what did you think of the W. Bill linen ?

 

[Guttersnipe]

I agree that 74129 & 74130 are less obvious, which definitely gives then a "vintage" vibe. If you want a simple stripe that's a little more vintage than 74105 or 74101, a good choice is 74128. Here's a very similar pattern on a mid-30s suit:

 

[volvomeister13]

Volv, for me those 'cable' stripes (74105 & 74101) are just a bit too bold. they don't have the more diffuse look that chalk stripes on flannel have.
the pinstripes (74129 & 74130) are better. they look subtler and more 'vintage'.

what did you think of the W. Bill linen ?

The linen certainly exceeded my expectations. It seemed pretty dense and has a decent feeling of strength and thickness to it. Comparing it to a pair of my linen trousers from the late 20's or early 30's, the W. Bill linen is definitely not quite as heavy but I was nonetheless pleasantly surprised. I'll post some photos of it when I get a chance.

 

[herringbonekid]

gents, i have some original British 1940s worsted flannel for sale. please see classifieds for more info.

 

[PeterB]

gents, i have some original British 1940s worsted flannel for sale. please see classifieds for more info.

HBK, wish I had space for some more. Four suit lengths waiting to be made up, and more on the way. Good luck, as it would be a treat to get five metres of the genuine article. Good luck selling it, though I don't suppose it will be around for long.