Vintage clothing on Everest

[tonyb]

That's pretty sharp, feltfan. Maybe it's time for jamespowers to weigh in on the difference between Pliafelt and Durafelt, and just what the Cravenette process was. Is the color on yours more of a bluer grey, like in the top shots, or is it a tanner shade, as it appears in the shot where you're wearing it? That "also it's white" is in reference to the liner, maybe?
Interesting observation there, John in Covina. Knowing they can get at least SOMETHING for that old stuff encourages folks to put it out there. I think that's what happened on my killer deal, when I scored the Mallory and a nice, nice straw for all of $27.23 combined, plus shipping. I bought it from one of those outfits that sells other people's stuff for them on eBay.

 

[feltfan]

That's pretty sharp, feltfan. Maybe it's time for jamespowers to weigh in on the difference between Pliafelt and Durafelt

Hey, don't forget Vitafelt.
It'd be interesting to put the two hats together.
Looking at them I'd guess your hat is lighter
and less stiff. Mine's medium thick (no Cavanagh
but no Borsalino Featherweight, either) and just
a touch stiff. You can see from the bulky folds
in the crown I formed that it's not super thin felt.
But it's a really nice felt that does what I tell it
to do and feels super smooth.

Is the color on yours more of a bluer grey, like in the top shots, or is it a tanner shade, as it appears in the shot where you're wearing it? That "also it's white" is in reference to the liner, maybe?

The hat color is closer to the picture where I'm wearing it.
It's an off-white felt. Maybe a tan but lighter than that.
It's a pretty typical Open Road-type color.

Speaking of the liner, note that mine has plastic on the top
and yours doesn't. Another reason I suspect your hat is lighter.

 

[jamespowers]

Maybe it's time for jamespowers to weigh in on the difference between Pliafelt and Durafelt, and just what the Cravanette process was.

Ok, ok.
The Pliafelt was meant to be a hat made of soft and plaible felt. It was more of a dress hat grade. Something similar would be the vintage Borsalino Alessandrias.
The Dura Felt was a heavier weight felt that was meant to take more of a beating. This would likely be a work hat but could just as easily have been a dress hat. I see many more Pliafelts than DuraFelts around so I wonder which was really more durable in the long run.
The Cravanette process was just essentially a water proofing. Their early ads from the 1900s say Sun Proof---Rain Proof. I know from experience that they are rain proof. The sun proof I suppose would mean that it is also protected from fading. That was probably more important in the 1900s when people wore mostly black hats such as bowlers and homburgs. There was a race then to see who could produce the blackest black hat. Dunlap spent five years figuring it out in the 1800s. Fade resistance would still be nice in other colors too. Mallorys don't fade much in my experience either though. Later ads say the Cravanette process will take water like a duckling. Here is an ad like that from 1941:

The ad makes you want to go out and buy one still today.
Your The Dallas is actually from 1950 as far as I can tell. I think this ad from 1950 is just about the twin of your hat:

It also makes me want to go out and buy one 56 years later. Nice hat. :cool2:

Regards,

J

 

[tonyb]

Well, mine had the plastic over the liner top at one time but it has since disintegrated. Brownish flecks of it remained around the edge when I received the hat, and there were bits of it in the bottom the box. I've encountered this before.

 

[jamespowers]

Hey, don't forget Vitafelt.

Your wish is my command:

The first year Stetson introduced the Vita-Felts---1942. Nice felt. Probably the best feel next to the Suede Finish that came later.

Regards,

J

 

[ii-5-i]

Did I score one?

I just won this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8397498370&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

and if appearances don't deceive, it might be a "Dallas". I must have been thinking of the beautiful ads posted by JP when I went for this one.

 

[John in Covina]

I just won this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8397498370&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

and if appearances don't deceive, it might be a "Dallas". I must have been thinking of the beautiful ads posted by JP when I went for this one.

**************
Keep us posted on the details when it arrives. I forsee an Open Road Guild member in this!

Sincerely,

 

[jamespowers]

I just won this
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8397498370&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

and if appearances don't deceive, it might be a "Dallas". I must have been thinking of the beautiful ads posted by JP when I went for this one.

I am fairly sure you have a Dallas there. Very nice hat. If it is in well cared for condition you will love it. As always, pictures when you get it.

Regards,

J

 

[ii-5-i]

Open Road Membership

I should have applied for membership a while back. I got an Open Road off of ebay for $14. about 1 1/2 years ago. It's saved as an .art image so I can't paste it here. I also bought a beautiful Portis Stratoliner/Open Road clone last year. It's my favorite daily wear hat. I'll post photos when I figure this out.

 

[jamespowers]

I should have applied for membership a while back. I got an Open Road off of ebay for $14. about 1 1/2 years ago. It's saved as an .art image so I can't paste it here. I also bought a beautiful Portis Stratoliner/Open Road clone last year. It's my favorite daily wear hat. I'll post photos when I figure this out.

Save the picture as a jpg or gif file on a service like photobucket.com. Copy the URL, hit this button

and paste in your URL from photobucket.
I would like to see the Portis. They were rather nice hats in their time.

Regards,

J

 

[tonyb]

It's good to see a guy get a bargain, ii-5-i. Great deal there. It appears that eBay is still the Land of Opportunity for those who wear smaller sizes. Please, when it arrives, post some pictures. (If I can figure out how to post pictures, anyone can, provided that person has a digital camera.)
I am doubly pleased to see that you outbid a person who would have bought that hat only to place it back on eBay, along with another of his fanciful stories. Good for you.

 

[Craig Robertson]

And here's a top view of my inexpert home bash
(which I like):

Feltfan: I prefer the look of a hand-blocked hat. (Never could quite get my mind around the term "bash") I don't mean to slight the talents of Art or Steve or any of the other pro hatmakers...but I like the "personal" blocks.

 

[ii-5-i]

It's good to see a guy get a bargain, ii-5-i. Great deal there. It appears that eBay is still the Land of Opportunity for those who wear smaller sizes. Please, when it arrives, post some pictures. (If I can figure out how to post pictures, anyone can, provided that person has a digital camera.)
I am doubly pleased to see that you outbid a person who would have bought that hat only to place it back on eBay, along with another of his fanciful stories. Good for you.

Yeah, I noticed I beat the "Mr. Pulp Fiction" of ebay vintage hat land. That guy has read too many Micky Spillane books. I wonder what overheated BS he would have invented to tart up this nice, fairly conservative hat.

 

[ii-5-i]

Portis

Thanks for the info on converting an .art image, JP.

 

[feltfan]

Feltfan: I prefer the look of a hand-blocked hat. (Never could quite get my mind around the term "bash") I don't mean to slight the talents of Art or Steve or any of the other pro hatmakers...but I like the "personal" blocks.

I know what you mean. It does depend on the hat.
For that one, it worked.

You see a lot of charming home-bashed hats in old
photos. The other night I saw an older man with
what must have been a top of the line 40s Stetson
fedora. The crisp, incredible felt looked like modern
art with his elegant bash. If I hadn't been in a hurry,
I might have cornered the poor guy with a million
questions. That hat, with its delicate elegance, still
haunts me.

 

[Alan Eardley]

A colleague at Lancaster University recently referred me to an interesting applied research project taking place there. Professor Mary Rose of the Management School has had reproduced (apparently by the same company from whom I buy my survival clothing) the clothing worn by the late George Mallory and Sandy Irvine and the other members of the 1924 expedition to Chomolungma (Mt. Everest). After laboratory tests the garments were actually worn by members of an expedition to the 'third pole'. They were on the mountain under typical conditions for a considerable time.

Noted mountaineer and seven-times summiter Graham Hoyland expresses the view that the 1924-style garments (consisting of silk and woollen underlayers and cotton shooting-style jackets) were superior in some ways to the modern synthetic equivalents and would have been perfectly suitable for high altitude climbing in severe conditions. Hoyland reports that other climbers asked where they could buy similar garments - a mountain repro fashion looms, perhaps? And yes, the expedition are photographed in fedoras in John Noel's famous photographs.
See http://www.lums.lancs.ac.uk/news/7843/
and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5076634.stm.

Alan

 

[Jay]

Thus proving that we are right in that old clothes are superior?

 

[Mojito]

What a fascinating story!

The supposed inferiority of the garments worn at the time has always been a component of the long list of arguments reasoning that Mallory and Irvine could not have made the summit...interesting to see that assumption has now been challenged. I still don't believe they could have made it, although my heart has always overruled me head in hoping that they did.

When they found Mallory's body in 1999 it was first assumed to be Irvine's - it was a laundry tag in his clothes with his name on it that lead to the correct identification.

I wonder if they're still planning expeditions to look for Irvine's body and see if they can find any of camera/s they are believed to have taken with them? The last expedition I heard about was sidetracked by the need to rescue other climbers.

Julie Summers, his great niece, is mentioned in one of the articles. It was her excellent biography of Irvine that really interested me in the subject.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Sad postscript

Some sad news follows this story. Some of the original clothes worn by the 1924 expedition was made by Burberry, who at that time had an excellent reputation for outdoor clothing. This week Burberry announced the closure of their Welsh factory and the transfer of production to China. Local people are petitioning Buckingham Palace to withdraw the Royal Warrant.

So far Irvine's camera has not been found, although further expeditions are planned to this effect.

Let us remember that both Poles and most of the world's highest mountains, deserts and jungles were explored before Gore-tex, Pertex and CoolMax were invented.

Alan

 

[Bill O'Rights]

I still don't believe they could have made it, although my heart has always overruled me head in hoping that they did.

I dunno...I've long been of the opinion that they did summit. Albeit unsuccessfully.

So, fear not, fans of Sir Edmund, as he will always have the distinction of being the first to "successfully" Summit Everest. Although...Mallory was there first.