Vanson Chopper

[dudewuttheheck]

What is the new leather that Vanson is using and why is it so obviously terrible? I would really like to know as I'm completely uninformed on this subject.

 

[Bfd70]

Carlos, you can wear that type of jacket so effortlessly. I see it in other pictures and think no way. I see it on you and think of course.

 

[Carrie @ Thurston Bros.]

Just got a second email from Vanson, impressed by their speed in answering...
According to them, the Insurrection version uses a different leather, lining, hardware and even different sizing.

@Carrie @ Thurston Bros. would you have more info? Curious as to what the exact differences are. Thanks.

When the Chopper first came out (about 6-7 years ago?), we ordered them as standard (X150 cowhide, brass hardware, red quilted lining). However, we quickly found that the red quilted lining was too heavy for most customers, so we switched to the black rayon (you can get it with red rayon on custom orders if you want to keep the look). Also, we preferred the Black Comp Weight over the X150...we favored the standard CW finish over the X150's waxy, shiny finish. As to the sizing, the Chopper has always been missing sizes 38 and 42 in the S/M/L range. To remedy this, we had Vanson add these sizes to our own off-the-rack size range.

What is the new leather that Vanson is using and why is it so obviously terrible? I would really like to know as I'm completely uninformed on this subject.

The "new" Vanson Comp Weight people are talking about isn't all that new in the context of Vanson's leather history. Vanson's old tannery closed and they found a new tannery that could make their Comp Weight recipe (tanning, finishing, thickness, etc.). Some customers may not like the current version of this leather, but this is something we've experienced multiple times in the 13 years we've been selling Vanson jackets. Even with the same tannery, we saw variety in the grain, texture and finish of Comp Weight. The leather would change a little almost every year...some years we liked better than others, but the actual quality of the leather was always consistent with Vanson's specs. The "new" leather is different from the last batch that came out of the old tannery, but it is quite similar to some Comp Weight batches from from the old tannery about 7-8 years ago. In short, if you've had a number of Vanson jackets made in the last 30-40 years, the Comp Weight leather on each one will feel and look a little different!

*I realize this doesn't exactly answer your question, but is more a response to the larger discussion that's been going on

 

[dudewuttheheck]

When the Chopper first came out (about 6-7 years ago?), we ordered them as standard (X150 cowhide, brass hardware, red quilted lining). However, we quickly found that the red quilted lining was too heavy for most customers, so we switched to the black rayon (you can get it with red rayon on custom orders if you want to keep the look). Also, we preferred the Black Comp Weight over the X150...we favored the standard CW finish over the X150's waxy, shiny finish. As to the sizing, the Chopper has always been missing sizes 38 and 42 in the S/M/L range. To remedy this, we had Vanson add these sizes to our own off-the-rack size range.



The "new" Vanson Comp Weight people are talking about isn't all that new in the context of Vanson's leather history. Vanson's old tannery closed and they found a new tannery that could make their Comp Weight recipe (tanning, finishing, thickness, etc.). Some customers may not like the current version of this leather, but this is something we've experienced multiple times in the 13 years we've been selling Vanson jackets. Even with the same tannery, we saw variety in the grain, texture and finish of Comp Weight. The leather would change a little almost every year...some years we liked better than others, but the actual quality of the leather was always consistent with Vanson's specs. The "new" leather is different from the last batch that came out of the old tannery, but it is quite similar to some Comp Weight batches from from the old tannery about 7-8 years ago. In short, if you've had a number of Vanson jackets made in the last 30-40 years, the Comp Weight leather on each one will feel and look a little different!

*I realize this doesn't exactly answer your question, but is more a response to the larger discussion that's been going on

That does explain the situation for me at least. I appreciate that very much. I am curious to hear what the other members specifically dislike about the leather from the new tannery, though.

Thanks for the information!

 

[JMax]

Thanks Carrie. Confirms what I knew about the Chopper and what I was thinking, feeling and seeing with the “various” comp. weight.

 

[JMax]

That does explain the situation for me at least. I appreciate that very much. I am curious to hear what the other members specifically dislike about the leather from the new tannery, though.

Thanks for the information!

I don’t dislike it at all. A few weeks back I laid out a few of my Vanson and while there was some difference in texture it felt and looked the same overall. I recall posting here that, at least in my personal collection spanning a number of different years of Vanson, the variance was rather minimal. I gave up trying to figure it out and I did not understand the concern with the “new comp. weight”. Perhaps others have an unusually thin batch or something.

 

[Carlos840]

What is the new leather that Vanson is using and why is it so obviously terrible? I would really like to know as I'm completely uninformed on this subject.

Pictures can be seen here and on the next page:

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/what-jacket-are-you-wearing-today.82949/page-545

Haven't handled the new stuff but it doesn't look as nice. It looks like it is shaved a lot more, and corrected more. It is also a lot shinier and less grainy.
It might just be this one specific batch though, no idea.

When the Chopper first came out (about 6-7 years ago?), we ordered them as standard (X150 cowhide, brass hardware, red quilted lining). However, we quickly found that the red quilted lining was too heavy for most customers, so we switched to the black rayon (you can get it with red rayon on custom orders if you want to keep the look). Also, we preferred the Black Comp Weight over the X150...we favored the standard CW finish over the X150's waxy, shiny finish. As to the sizing, the Chopper has always been missing sizes 38 and 42 in the S/M/L range. To remedy this, we had Vanson add these sizes to our own off-the-rack size range.



The "new" Vanson Comp Weight people are talking about isn't all that new in the context of Vanson's leather history. Vanson's old tannery closed and they found a new tannery that could make their Comp Weight recipe (tanning, finishing, thickness, etc.). Some customers may not like the current version of this leather, but this is something we've experienced multiple times in the 13 years we've been selling Vanson jackets. Even with the same tannery, we saw variety in the grain, texture and finish of Comp Weight. The leather would change a little almost every year...some years we liked better than others, but the actual quality of the leather was always consistent with Vanson's specs. The "new" leather is different from the last batch that came out of the old tannery, but it is quite similar to some Comp Weight batches from from the old tannery about 7-8 years ago. In short, if you've had a number of Vanson jackets made in the last 30-40 years, the Comp Weight leather on each one will feel and look a little different!

*I realize this doesn't exactly answer your question, but is more a response to the larger discussion that's been going on

Thanks a lot for such a detailed answer.

 

[JMax]

I think we need more pictures of that “bad” leather. That’s very close and very well-lit. None of the Vanson jackets I owned, have owned, or have compared with other owners while riding look like that.

 

[roadking04]

I have a 12 Year old Hardcore highwayman. It is in the comp. leather. It was my first "real" riding jacket. When I first took it out of the box, I could not believe it! It was extremely HEAVY, STIFF, AND SUPER SHINY!!! I could barley zip it up. It was almost impossible to zip the sleeve zippers. It was so ridiculous, I didn't know what to do! There was no way I could be seen in public. My girlfriend was trying not to laugh! She even asked me "are you sure that's even leather?" I sat in the chair with it on and felt like I just took an uppercut from Mike Tyson.

I thought I just wasted my money. I couldn't even move in this thing, let alone try and ride my motorcycle! It was so smooth and shiny, I thought, I cant believe I waited so long for this thing. No way could I wear this out in public, I would be a laughing stock.

After initial disappointment, I got mad. I started beating it up, throwing it around, sitting on it, and kicking it. I read water would help break in leather. I turned the shower on it and water would just bead off of it. I knew the water trick probably wasn't gonna work. I continued to beat on it for months. I would watch the NCAA tournament and knead it with my hands until I couldn't move my fingers. It took months of abuse before I could even sit in a chair with the thing on.

That is the competition weight leather I know and respect! I am also confused. Is the new stuff matte? not shiny? Is it softer? not as stiff? doesn't stand on its own? Is it still as heavy? still 3.5 oz?

I hope Vanson "didn't compromise"

 

[handymike]

@roadking04 Let's see how it looks now!

 

[JMax]

I have a 12 Year old Hardcore highwayman. It is in the comp. leather. It was my first "real" riding jacket. When I first took it out of the box, I could not believe it! It was extremely HEAVY, STIFF, AND SUPER SHINY!!! I could barley zip it up. It was almost impossible to zip the sleeve zippers. It was so ridiculous, I didn't know what to do! There was no way I could be seen in public. My girlfriend was trying not to laugh! She even asked me "are you sure that's even leather?" I sat in the chair with it on and felt like I just took an uppercut from Mike Tyson.

I thought I just wasted my money. I couldn't even move in this thing, let alone try and ride my motorcycle! It was so smooth and shiny, I thought, I cant believe I waited so long for this thing. No way could I wear this out in public, I would be a laughing stock.

After initial disappointment, I got mad. I started beating it up, throwing it around, sitting on it, and kicking it. I read water would help break in leather. I turned the shower on it and water would just bead off of it. I knew the water trick probably wasn't gonna work. I continued to beat on it for months. I would watch the NCAA tournament and knead it with my hands until I couldn't move my fingers. It took months of abuse before I could even sit in a chair with the thing on.

That is the competition weight leather I know and respect! I am also confused. Is the new stuff matte? not shiny? Is it softer? not as stiff? doesn't stand on its own? Is it still as heavy? still 3.5 oz?

I hope Vanson "didn't compromise"

A bit more but it depends. A bit less but it depends. No. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. They have not.

 

[jacketjunkie]

I own five Vanson jackets, all of them in competition weight leather and the leather looks different on all five of them, different grain on all of them. There are also thickness-differences between these jackets as can be easily told by weight of the jacket and spots such as the sleeve gusset where you can see the hide thickness. The hide thickness of the sleeve gussets on my CHP2 from around 2007 is more than 2mm (5oz). Vansons latest batches seemed more pliable, my Vanson America needed barely any break-in but still weighs more than 6lbs and while this may be thinner hide than the CHP, the finish on this feels much tougher. My latest, the Dakota which was made a few years back is made from stuff which feels just like described by @roadking04 . I can barely zip it up and it hurts to bend my arms in it. Stiff as hell yet not feeling that heavy. My lightest comp weight jacket is a flight jacket style from 1997, the supposedly good old indestructible days and unlike the other four it has like no grain at all, completely even surface.

My point is, I wouldn't overexaggerate this whole debate over recent changes of Vansons leather, it clearly changed multiple times over the last 20 years and all five of my jackets are heavyweight pieces, regardless of whether they weigh a pound more or less and while all feel different, they still all feel superior to most other stuff I have handled in terms of sturdiness and at this point of my addiction, I have handled pretty much anything with a name on it.

 

[roadking04]

Thanks Jmax. I am really considering a model E this fall. Probably an off the rack size. Hope I don't have to wait for one. Vanson can be difficult sometimes.

Handymike, actually I was planning a thread for this weekend (or sometime soon). I ordered a "fish" scale from amazon. I got it to weigh my jackets. lol.

 

[JMax]

Thanks Jmax. I am really considering a model E this fall. Probably an off the rack size. Hope I don't have to wait for one. Vanson can be difficult sometimes.

Handymike, actually I was planning a thread for this weekend (or sometime soon). I ordered a "fish" scale from amazon. I got it to weigh my jackets. lol.

BTW, @jacketjunkie nailed it with his last post.

 

[Carlos840]

Handymike, actually I was planning a thread for this weekend (or sometime soon). I ordered a "fish" scale from amazon. I got it to weigh my jackets. lol.

Great minds think alike! I have a fish scal on its way too.
Pretty sure the Vanson is going to be the heaviest!

 

[Downunder G Man]

My Vanson Comet size 44 , and my Vanson Sturgis in "Large" , were bought new here in Australia 6 months ago.

Both beautifully made good looking jackets , in I assume the same leather.

However they DO NOT "smell" like my Eastman and Schott collection , I put that down to the type or tanning style ?

 

[roadking04]

Great minds think alike! I have a fish scal on its way too.
Pretty sure the Vanson is going to be the heaviest!

Hopefully the fish scales will be more accurate than the bathroom scale method!

 

[Hh121]

The sample I got from them is thick (same thickness as wrist gusset), but they shave more, therefore the jacket is thin and light weight.

This is from Mike when I ask why my returned Enfield is much thinner than the sample they sent to me.

"also, in order to control the material, and the shape of the finished pieces, we use splitter and skiving machines in areas that will bulk up too much for comfort and appearance. the collar issue you mentioned is one such area. other areas are the inside facings, pocket welts, pocket backers, windflaps, sleeve ends and wrist gussets, belts etc. in many of these areas there are simply too many layers of leather- often folded over - that if we do not reduce the mass there will be uncomfortable and unsightly lumps and bumps - which in turn effect the final measurements and fit."

 

[jpk_NJ]

Wish I saw this thread before I ordered (and returned) my Force last month. The photos in Carlos's thread look identical to what I experienced. The "old comp weight" hide was bullet proof / beasty. But when I opened the box I was super let down. Much much thinner, super "corrected" grain top coat, just felt cheap. And was sloppily put together. This was direct ordered from Vanson.

That being said, I still don't want to believe Vanson has gone that far down. So, I'm giving it a second go with a new purchase from a Vanson retailer in hopes that jackets stocked by a middleman will have a bit more "quality control". I hope

 

[JMax]

Are you getting a collaboration or just not purchasing direct? The collaborations are awesome.