Valley Apparel LLC CWU 45P Nomex and Nylon and MA-1

[awacs]

Hello everyone. Although I like and collect some apparel form the different branches of the U.S. armed forces, I am a rookie in the world of the flight jackets. My story with the flight jacket started when I was young and I bought a Alpha Industries CWU 45P in navy blue. The model was a US made one (before 2000). I used this jacket for 7 years and I left to use because it became a bit old, but the jacket in general was and is in very good condition. As I liked so much, I bough a new one from Alpha, an this one (made in China), I used 2 years. It started to fray in one exterior and the interior pockets, so I was a bit disappointed with the new China made Alphas. After that, I left the topic of the flight jackets for a few years.

However, I just start to think about the flight jacket again as I became a collector a few years ago. I want one brand-new US-made original-issued CWU 45P Nomex flight jacket to my collection. I know that several brands made this jackets for the DOD these years, Alpha Industries, Valley Apparel LLC (it is the continuation of Alpha for the military apparel), Creative apparel Assoc., Gibraltar Inc, Propper International Inc, Isratex, etc.. Apart form Isratex, that gave the problems to the DOD, I was interested in any of these brands. However, as I want a brand-new, I have only found the Valley Apparel and the Alpha (several hundred of dollar more expensive) in shop. Is the Valley Apparel CWU 45P that I can find in shops the real one, exactly the same, as the issued to the USAF, USN and USMC or is a commercial copy. Also I see on-line some Propper International. Is it better the Propper or the Valley Apparel? In addition, the pre-owned ones I see that they have more velcro zones, (for the squad patches and insignia) that the new ones. Are this velcro zones insert by the crew or it come like that from the factory?

On the other hand, I am also thinking in buy one brand-new US-made CWU 45P in Nylon (I thought that the P is for Nomex, but I used to see even in the commercial ones) to use. I checked the Valley Apparel also and it looks like very good. The questions are: is it a really good quality (high quality) made flight jacket? Is the size the correct one compared with the one issued to the DOD? Other option is the MA-1. I only found US-made the Valley Apparel and the Cockpit ones. As in the case of the CWU 45P, are high quality made flight jackets? Are the size of both ones the correct one compared with the original issued to the DOD? I know that the military specifications varies from the years. In this way, I am referring that the CWU 45P has the same size that its Nomex counterpart version and in the case of the MA-1 if they have similar sizes to the ones released in the 80s, I think that the MA-1F or G, but I am not sure if it is the specific code.

If you know other brands that made the CWU 45P Nylon or the MA-1 US-made, I am open to see other brands.

I really appreciate your help and sorry for the long post.

 

[Doctor Damage]

In my opinion Valley made the best nomex military jackets, but I can't comment on their nylon jackets. We have a thread on nomex jackets which should help you. The military jackets, new or old, have special tags which civilian jackets rarely have and they will state clearly that the jacket is made of "aromatic polyamide" (Nomex is a brand name, as is Aramid, but the material is aromatic polyamide). The military never issued nylon CWU jackets.

 

[awacs]

Thank for your answer Doctor Damage.

Yes I was checking that thread. However, I see that a lot of the post are referred to used CWU jackets, not brand-new.

I refer as an example to this CWU 45P:
http://www.uswings.com/product/nomex-cwu-45p-flight-jacket/

Can you tell me from the label that appears in the pictures that the jacket is the same that Valley Apparel sell to the U.S. Armed Forces? It is because it looks like that the typical military issued label, with the DLA, DSA or SP number (I guess that it the number covered by the pen) and the military specification (MIL number), but I don´t see the 100% Aramid and the size in numbers.

 

[Doctor Damage]

That's a military jacket. I can't explain why it doesn't have the type of cloth listed, but this appears to be one of the latest jackets which has a matte finish instead of the shiny finish, so perhaps the specs have changed in terms of tags. It doesn't have the size in numbers because they don't have size in numbers, only letter (S, M, etc).

Don't pay $650 when you can go on e-bay and find a nearly new military nomex one for $100 or $150.

 

[bn1966]

I picked up two NOS CWU Military Issue jackets for £60.00 the pair off eBay once..you just need to keep your eyes open

 

[awacs]

Yes the differences in the tag between the Valley Apparel is a bit strange for me. Maybe it is only a change in the standard of the tag.

On the other hand, the Alpha CWU-45/P Nomex is better or worse than the Valley Apparel? Does Alpha have a production line after Alpha sold its US fabric to Valley Apparel or Alpha simply contracts others to produce their Nomex version?

I am looking for one in eBay and it looks like that they are cheaper than in the retailers. However, I will leave a few time to see if I have good luck and I can obtain one cheaper than the currently ones in eBay.

What do you think about the Valley Apparel CWU 45/P in nylon? I don´t like the tag in the exterior of the arm, but it looks like that the jacket is good for the price (I found some of them for 130 euros). Maybe an Alpha CWU 45/P US-made is better.

 

[garzo]

Schott also makes nylon flight jackets: https://www.schottnyc.com/store/men/jackets/nylon

 

[Doctor Damage]

Yes the differences in the tag between the Valley Apparel is a bit strange for me. Maybe it is only a change in the standard of the tag.

On the other hand, the Alpha CWU-45/P Nomex is better or worse than the Valley Apparel? Does Alpha have a production line after Alpha sold its US fabric to Valley Apparel or Alpha simply contracts others to produce their Nomex version?

I am looking for one in eBay and it looks like that they are cheaper than in the retailers. However, I will leave a few time to see if I have good luck and I can obtain one cheaper than the currently ones in eBay.

What do you think about the Valley Apparel CWU 45/P in nylon? I don´t like the tag in the exterior of the arm, but it looks like that the jacket is good for the price (I found some of them for 130 euros). Maybe an Alpha CWU 45/P US-made is better.

You're jumping around like a rabbit on speed. Focus. What do you want? Do you want a military nomex CWU jacket? Get a used one off e-bay, with a more recent date, and either Alpha or Valley if you want one that's bolted together best. Do you want a civilian CWU jacket? Those are available only in nylon and none of them are worth spending much money on, if at all.

 

[awacs]

You're jumping around like a rabbit on speed. Focus. What do you want? Do you want a military nomex CWU jacket? Get a used one off e-bay, with a more recent date, and either Alpha or Valley if you want one that's bolted together best. Do you want a civilian CWU jacket? Those are available only in nylon and none of them are worth spending much money on, if at all.

I want two or three flight jackets. The first one is the military CWU 45/P Nomex flight jacket. I want it to keep in my wardrobe, not to use it. This is the main reason because I want one new. I used the US wings to show a photo of the jacket to assure that it is a genuine military one. However, I am not going to pay this amount of money. I am going to look for it in eBay, because I saw that sometimes you can find one cheap. I continue with the curiosity of the two different tags. I guess that they simply modified it for the new series, but I don´t know. This is only curiosity.

In addition, as I commented you in the MA-1 flight jacket thread, I also want a MA-1 brand-new original military issued MA-1 from the 80´s or 90´s. However, I know that this is several times more complicated than the CWU 45/P Nomex and maybe I will never find one. The original MA-1 from the 80´s or 90´s, as the the CWU 45/P Nomex, I want to keep in my wardrobe. I know that it is strange, but I am a strange military stuff collector.

On the other hand, I want one CWU 45/P nylon or/and one MA-1 to bring every day. In this way, I was focused on the new old stock Alpha CWU 45/P Nylon or a new Valley Apparel CWU 45/P nylon, because both are made in U.S., and both brands have a good reputation.

 

[awacs]

Schott also makes nylon flight jackets: https://www.schottnyc.com/store/men/jackets/nylon

I was checking the Schott. I know that Schott made the B-15 and the MA-1, at least for the European market. However, in the Schott´s webpage, I didn´t find a reproduction (copy if you prefer) of the CWU 45/P or the MA-1.

 

[Sonero]

I just received a new VA Nomex jacket in tan today. I love the fabric but am a little underwhelmed about the jersey material used on the cuffs and waistband. My Schott has way thicker material. I fear making holes in it....but I will enjoy the jacket while it lasts.

Also be aware that nomex needs to be dry cleaned.

 

[Big J]

Nah, you can put nomex in a washing machine in a laundry bag with non-bleach detergent. It'll be perfectly fine.
I bought 5 nomex flight jackets last year after getting Doctor Damage's sage advice (he knows the score thoroughly), and they were all filthy and had terrible dirt/water marks if a little rain fell on them.
Three cold machine washes later, nice and clean, no problems.
Nomex sucks up water. The water repellent quality of the military nylon jackets is hugely practical.

 

[Doctor Damage]

I just received a new VA Nomex jacket in tan today. I love the fabric but am a little underwhelmed about the jersey material used on the cuffs and waistband. My Schott has way thicker material. I fear making holes in it....but I will enjoy the jacket while it lasts.

Also be aware that nomex needs to be dry cleaned.

Schott never made nomex military jackets, so their knits will be heavier because they can make them from wool or polyester. The knots on nomex military jackets are nomex hence they are limited by what you can do with nomex thread.

Big J is right, nomex jackets wash up nicely. I got a dirty one dry cleaned once and it did nothing. A couple of hand washes in the bathtub and once through the washing machine and it cleaned up fine. Big J is also right that nomex soaks up water, but it also dries out really quickly, at least the 36P summer jacket.

We have a big thread about nomex jackets around here someplace, take a look. There's lots of discussion in it.

 

[Sonero]

The knots on nomex military jackets are nomex hence they are limited by what you can do with nomex thread.

Interesting. I was wondering about that....so the knit "jersey" material is also made of Nomex ? That part of the jacket doesn't seem fire resistant at all.

I almost sent it back but for $258 with tags it seemed like a steal compared to the $600+ price tags elsewhere.

It looks great with my Tilley hats.

I also have a Schott which I really like....non Nomex :

 

[Doctor Damage]

^ I had one of those Schott nylon CWU jackets but got rid of it quickly since it was too short in the torso, barely covered my belly button! I found the cloth frays easily too on the Schott jackets. But Schott construction quality is there. Other nylon CWU jackets have been available over the years. Alpha of course still makes them (45P config) and they fit the same as the military jackets and are a good winter jacket, more usuable actually in day to day life than the military nomex. If you're keen I could post a list of nylon versions you might find here and there on e-bay if you're patient. Believe it or not, Levis actually did a nylon version way back when, I've got one and it's quite good!

The military CWU 45P and 36P jackets are 100% nomex (technically "aromatic polyamide"). The shells, linings, knits, and even the threads are all nomex. The only things not nomex are the metal zippers. Once you wash them you'll never need to wash them again unless you spill coffee on them or something. They don't hold smells, which is nice. Even if you get a used one that's a real mess, once it's clean it will be almost new, it seems the nomex refuses to actually 'hold' stains, smells, liquids, etc. It's great.

 

[bn1966]

Nothing worse than a smelly jacket

 

[Sonero]

Alpha of course still makes them (45P config) and they fit the same as the military jackets and are a good winter jacket, more usuable actually in day to day life than the military nomex.

I was looking into Alpha but read mixed reviews on both fit and quality. One reviewer likened it to a Rothco but more expensive. I hate Rothco products. Can you tell me anything about current Alpha quality ? Apparently they aren't the same Alpha that produced for the military ???

How do Alpha jackets fit ....BIG or Small ? IE. Schott runs smaller with a 49 inch chest labeled as a XXL vs lets say a Carharrt or Dickies jacket which runs large. Slim Fit Alpha = size up ?

The waist on all these jackets are too small....that's the look. If you have any stomach these aren't for you. These jackets have been a present to me in celebration of going down 2 pants sizes...I've been eating "widgets" to fit into these things !

 

[Doctor Damage]

I was looking into Alpha but read mixed reviews on both fit and quality. One reviewer likened it to a Rothco but more expensive. I hate Rothco products. Can you tell me anything about current Alpha quality ? Apparently they aren't the same Alpha that produced for the military ???

How do Alpha jackets fit ....BIG or Small ? IE. Schott runs smaller with a 49 inch chest labeled as a XXL vs lets say a Carharrt or Dickies jacket which runs large. Slim Fit Alpha = size up ?

The waist on all these jackets are too small....that's the look. If you have any stomach these aren't for you. These jackets have been a present to me in celebration of going down 2 pants sizes...I've been eating "widgets" to fit into these things !

Alpha makes the best of the nylon versions and anyone who equates their quality with Rothco is an idiot or has an ulterior motive. Alpha's jackets measure out and fit the same as recent issue military ones (1990s, 2000s). I don't like the Alpha logo on the velcro, but you can put other velcro over that. Here's Alpha's size guide. Unless you are excessively tall, or excessively short, or excessively fat, just buy what they say, i.e. if you're a 44 get a Large, if you're a 48 get a XL, etc. Don't listen to their chatter about "these fit large", they don't. Ignore your experience with Schott, they're weird.

Of course I know what's going to happen here, you'll buy an Alpha, then complain that it doesn't fit right. The fact is that flight jackets don't fit anybody right. They were always a mass-produced item made to "fit" as many different body configurations as possible, but, like all military stuff, to fit no one. Some of our members who have been in the military will confirm that.

 

[Sonero]

^ THANKS.

I am going with the slim fit in white. I think this will look super with bright colored polo shirts and white converse sneakers !

 

[bill wong]

Don't knock the slim fit. Its a lot more flattering than the Michelin Man look.
Alpha now has the CWU45 in slim fit. Only in nylon though.