Valkyrie

[_RAGNAR_]

Well honestly IMO if someone liked Titanic, I don’t see them liking this movie. It’s not a love story, it’s not suspenseful; it is a attempt to show a very complicated situation and all the complicated individuals who for all kinds of reasons personal and otherwise were involved in this moment in history. Suspense is not a requirement for a film IMO. I didn’t go into it expecting Titanic so I was not disappointed.

It is a film about Germans in 1944. It is about people who are stoic, who follow orders, who have crazy loyalty to bad oaths, who don’t show emotion, who have deep unexpressed romanticism that leads to wild extremes of character and actions (as stated in the movie, one must understand Wagner to understand Germans) What the acting must capture (and did barely ok at IMO) is that on the outside these people look like heartless military robots, but on the inside they all feel like they are in a giant tragic Wagner operatic performance.

IMO the film was neither good nor bad, just ok. Visually is was better than ok and historically it was decent. IMO none of the acting was very good.

I still really don’t get the accents thing. Do we expect Greek accents in 300? Roman accents in Gladiator? I want to hear an accent when someone is portraying speaking a language not their own. The only way I would have wanted a German accent is if they were speaking German.

 

[Matt Crunk]

I too was concerned that a lack of accent would detract from the believability of germans interacting with one another. What I discovered was a very effective seque' from German to English as the story began - from the titles morphing from German to English and then the German narration to English. This provided a perfect psychological transition to accept the characters speaking English dialogue. Very effective and rather unique.

-dixon cannon

If I remember correctly, The Hunt For Red October used the same device in the beginning of that film, where the opening had the Soviet submarine crew speaking Russian then segue'd into English.

 

[Brian Sheridan]

If I remember correctly, The Hunt For Red October used the same device in the beginning of that film, where the opening had the Soviet submarine crew speaking Russian then segue'd into English.

You remember correctly. No one complained Connery sounds like a Scot not a Ruskie. But Connery isn't a Scientologist who jumped on Oprah's couch...though I'd pay a million bucks to see that!

 

[Tomasso]

But Connery isn't a Scientologist who jumped on Oprah's couch.

Sir Sean would never exhibit such indecorous behavior; He knows to remain seated.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

You remember correctly. No one complained Connery sounds like a Scot not a Ruskie. But Connery isn't a Scientologist who jumped on Oprah's couch...though I'd pay a million bucks to see that!

Actually, they did. Critics at the time did poke a bit of fun at the Old Boy, though he was coming off of an Oscar win then, so he was a bit more insulated against the criticisms.

 

[MrBern]

Well honestly IMO if someone liked Titanic, I don’t see them liking this movie. It’s not a love story, it’s not suspenseful; it is a attempt to show a very complicated situation and all the complicated individuals who for all kinds of reasons personal and otherwise were involved in this moment in history. Suspense is not a requirement for a film IMO. I didn’t go into it expecting Titanic so I was not disappointed.

It is a film about Germans in 1944. It is about people who are stoic, who follow orders, who have crazy loyalty to bad oaths, who don’t show emotion, who have deep unexpressed romanticism that leads to wild extremes of character and actions (as stated in the movie, one must understand Wagner to understand Germans) What the acting must capture (and did barely ok at IMO) is that on the outside these people look like heartless military robots, but on the inside they all feel like they are in a giant tragic Wagner operatic performance.

IMO the film was neither good nor bad, just ok. Visually is was better than ok and historically it was decent. IMO none of the acting was very good.

I still really don’t get the accents thing. Do we expect Greek accents in 300? Roman accents in Gladiator? I want to hear an accent when someone is portraying speaking a language not their own. The only way I would have wanted a German accent is if they were speaking German.

Well when Titanic was first announced, there were skeptics who thought the movie's success would be doomed as everyone knows the ship sinks. So how does the audience remain involved? Good storytelling. Thoughtful insight. Fresh delivery.
Valkyrie doesnt compare to anything youd see on Masterpiece Theater. It just lumbers forth. Or even more directly, compare it to Der Untergang (DOWNFALL).

As for the accents, part of the trade of acting is helping the audience to suspend disbelief. Better actors can develop convincing accents to establish the character. Look at Band of Brothers, several of those actors were british working with American actors.
But a poorly executed accent is generally avoided to curtail embarrassment. Kevin Cosner played Robin Hood without the English accent. Hollywood silliness.

 

[MrBern]

Masada

Wasnt it the TV miniseries MASADA that had Brit actors as Romans against besieged Hebrews played by American actors?
I recall those accents raising some questions.

And then theres MelGibson. When he first mentioned in interviews that he would be looking into depicting the Final days of Christ, but spoken in the original Aramaic with no subtitles, everyone thought he was joking.

 

[_RAGNAR_]

Well when Titanic was first announced, there were skeptics who thought the movie's success would be doomed as everyone knows the ship sinks. So how does the audience remain involved? Good storytelling. Thoughtful insight. Fresh delivery.
Valkyrie doesnt compare to anything youd see on Masterpiece Theater. It just lumbers forth. Or even more directly, compare it to Der Untergang (DOWNFALL).

As for the accents, part of the trade of acting is helping the audience to suspend disbelief. Better actors can develop convincing accents to establish the character. Look at Band of Brothers, several of those actors were british working with American actors.
But a poorly executed accent is generally avoided to curtail embarrassment. Kevin Cosner played Robin Hood without the English accent. Hollywood silliness.

I guess we have a basic difference of opinion about the accent thing. Yes many actors portray nationalities they are not. In BOB guys who were British spoke American English, as was correct since they were portraying Americans speaking American English. In this film people were portraying Germans speaking German! Germans speaking German don’t have a German “accent”, Germans speaking English do. But once again these guys were not speaking English, they were speaking German. We were hearing English. An accent serves no purpose in this situation. Either do no accent or do the whole thing in German with subtitles, but since most the roles were not being done by Germans this was impossible.

As far as Titanic, I surely didn’t see it as a historical movie about the titanic. It was a fictional love story SET on the titanic. Very different from a movie trying to tell a specific piece of history IMO.

 

[SamMarlowPI]

there was a TV movie made in 1990 called 'the plot to kill hitler'...same story except no tom cruise or kenneth branagh...good film too...

 

[Nighthawk]

Well when Titanic was first announced, there were skeptics who thought the movie's success would be doomed as everyone knows the ship sinks. So how does the audience remain involved? Good storytelling. Thoughtful insight. Fresh delivery.

Much of Titanic's success can be attributed to the Leonardo DiCaprio factor -- teenage girls seeing the film multiple times because of his looks.

NH

 

[SamMarlowPI]

Much of Titanic's success can be attributed to the Leonardo DiCaprio factor -- teenage girls seeing the film multiple times because of his looks.

NH

and 50 year old women...i lost count of how many times my mother saw it throughout that year on account of young 'Caprio...

 

[3PcSuit]

You remember correctly. No one complained Connery sounds like a Scot not a Ruskie. But Connery isn't a Scientologist who jumped on Oprah's couch...though I'd pay a million bucks to see that!

My Russian teacher did

 

[SarinWrap]

I saw Valkyrie soon after it came out. Being interested in WW2 history, particularly with the Third Reich, and knowing a decent bit about the Valkyrie plot, my expectations were not high for this film, admittadly because of Tom Cruise, I was fearful that he would detract from the quality of the film. I was pleasantly surprised, while his acting was ok, he did not make the film worse by his being involved with it. Visually, it was very arresting, historically, it was decent, bordering on good. Of course, with the complexity of such a story, there is no way they could fit all of the officers involved into the film, I was a bit disappointed that Rommel's involvement was not even mentioned. My one significant gripe was General Ludwig Beck's death, how it was protrayed on screen is not how it happened, it was distinctly less dignified.
Also, one issue that some might have is this; all films have protaganists and antagonists, but in Valkyrie, all the parties involved are Nazis, therefore, the protaganists who we, as viewers, are to identify with are all National Socialists, granted they are not the ravenous SS types but that does not change the fact that they are indeed Nazis, that might make more than a few people uncomfortable. Just an observation.

 

[GHQ1]

Anyone know where to find the leather satchel

briefcase as seen in VALKYRIE . . .?

Or who the maker might be? Thanks

 

[MrBern]

Much of Titanic's success can be attributed to the Leonardo DiCaprio factor -- teenage girls seeing the film multiple times because of his looks.

NH

Well its success is that its a good date film. It had its biggest box office day on Valentines day, several weeks after opening.
Its one of those films that had worldwide breakaway success almost too big to be explained.

It was also an amazingly produced film. It had a HUGE budget of $200 million. Theyre was plenty of CGI, but they did actually build an almost lifesize version of the Titanic to sink. So the movie offers spectacle & attractive actors.
And the director was well known for his previous hits like the first two Terminator films.

I cant say it was the best film I ever saw, but it won academy awards & is still the biggest film at the box office ever.

With Valkyrie...I cant say that even Hitler's portrayal was that interesting.
I really wonder if there was another way to tell the story. The script just seems too straightforward.

 

[MrBern]

I guess we have a basic difference of opinion about the accent thing. Yes many actors portray nationalities they are not. In BOB guys who were British spoke American English, as was correct since they were portraying Americans speaking American English. In this film people were portraying Germans speaking German! Germans speaking German don’t have a German “accent”, Germans speaking English do. But once again these guys were not speaking English, they were speaking German. We were hearing English. An accent serves no purpose in this situation. Either do no accent or do the whole thing in German with subtitles, but since most the roles were not being done by Germans this was impossible.

As far as Titanic, I surely didn’t see it as a historical movie about the titanic. It was a fictional love story SET on the titanic. Very different from a movie trying to tell a specific piece of history IMO.

Sure we could go round & round & I do like some of your points. I will say I prefer Ralph Fiennes' depiction in Schindler's List, And Ed Harris in Enemy At The Gate. But I think those actors have a bit more gravitas than TomCruise.

Yes Titanic is a different movie. It was a huge spectacle. I think maybe Valkyrie mightve been better as a smaller film. I jsut dont think the script was very clever.

 

[Jerekson]

It wasn't. That was probably my biggest gripe about it. The entirely film was just so predictable - and I don't mean predictable as in we-all-know-that-Hitler-survives-in-the-end. I mean just classically, cinematically predictable. Hardly my idea of thrilling.

Literally the only things I got out of that movie were good cinematography and nice costumes.

 

[Maguire]

I saw this movie with no expectations, expecting a good laugh. It was entertainment, and relatively accurate from what i know of the July Plot, but i'd really wish they had german actors speaking german. If its about ancient times its understandable to use any old accent, but if you're making a movie about a recent event, i think it only makes sense to have germans speak german, americans speaking american english, french speaking french, etc. but thats a gripe i suppose i have with all these films. I joked with a friend that it was no wonder the Germans lost the war, their entire officer corp was made up of English and americans.

 

[Nighthawk]

Well its success is that its a good date film. It had its biggest box office day on Valentines day, several weeks after opening.
Its one of those films that had worldwide breakaway success almost too big to be explained.

All those poor men, being dragged to the film by their wives/girlfriends. (Although I'm sure Kate Winslet helped).

It was also an amazingly produced film. It had a HUGE budget of $200 million. Theyre was plenty of CGI, but they did actually build an almost lifesize version of the Titanic to sink. So the movie offers spectacle & attractive actors.

Agreed.

And the director was well known for his previous hits like the first two Terminator films.

Bleh. As a Trek fan you should be ashamed. It is well known that James Cameron plagerized Harlan Ellison's two Outer Limits episodes in creating The Terminator.

Cheers,

NH

 

[reetpleat]

Actually, they did. Critics at the time did poke a bit of fun at the Old Boy, though he was coming off of an Oscar win then, so he was a bit more insulated against the criticisms.

I think it does kind of work psycologically to cast someone with an accent, especially a similar sounding accent in a role of someone speaking a foreign language.

It does kind add an exotic air. Someone speaking standard english won't as much, and imagine a guy with a southern accent or cowboy or brooklyn accent trying to play a russian or german. IT would be very distracting.