US Authentic A-2 Jacket Review!

[Clyde R.]

I think Bill makes some very good, valid points. In fact, I recommended Gibson & Barnes to my brother in law and he bought their AN-J-3 model and he's delighted with it. Very nice jacket and a great price. I still think US Authentic provides a good jacket for somebody on a budget who doesn't want or can't afford the extra options...when you look at base price alone it is still quite a bit cheaper than G&B. It WOULD be nice if US A upgraded some of their features that wouldn't raise the price of the jacket, as Bill recommended.
One of the things I like about the price of the base model US A is that for someone on a budget, you can buy the base model and then upgrade it at your pace and as finances allow.(NOS talon zipper, name strip, etc.)

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

One thing I'd like to see,....

.......is some inside pockets. Or at least one as standard equipment at no extra cost.

 

[bfrench]

.......is some inside pockets. Or at least one as standard equipment at no extra cost.

Yes - that would be nice cause an inside wallet pocket now costs $100.00 and drives the price up to $369.00 - not that far away from the G&B price.

The one fantastic thing about is that the custom fee of $100.00 sure allows for a lot of options for the jacket.

So basic price of $269.00 plus another $100.00 for horsehide plus a custom fee of $100.00 gives us a jacket price of $469.00 fully customized.

What a bargain.

Bill French

 

[MudInYerEye]

When it's all said and done, the best bargains on A-2 jackets are still to be found on eBay, regardless of whether you are a high-end snob like myself or just a bargain seeker. By carefully seaching and bidding strategically, I've purchased A-2s by McCoy's, Eastman, and Aero in new or excellent condition all for $350 or less. The most expensive A-2 I purchased on eBay was a new-with-tags Buzz Rickson Roughwear for $358, still less than the cost of a USA horsehide A-2.
USA jackets themselves show up regularly on eBay and often end up selling for around $175.
At the risk of annoying Dr. Strange, for anyone considering ordering a custom jacket for Shaul Dover I'd stronglly advise reading the thread detailing ol' Skeeter's (a distinguished ex-navy pilot of the Korean and Viet Nam wars) troubles with Shaul Dover and taking a look at the photographss of the jacket he recieved.

 

[airfrogusmc]

The jackets from USA will never get this kind of patina because of the type of horsehide they use. For me having horsehide like this is worth the $$$

 

[StraightRazor]

VLJIII ??

 

[MudInYerEye]

Sorry about that. Vintage Leather Jackets III. Here is a link to the thread I mentioned earlier. Note that Skeeter's problems were with the shoddy craftsmanship of the jacket, not it's attention to accuracy. He ordered a custom job and was delivered the euivalent of a factory second.
http://cornellsurgery.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1770&start=0

 

[Doctor Strange]

Hey, I certainly wasn't happy to see the situation with that custom G-1.

All I ever said about US Authentic was: if you are looking for a good value in a new jacket, they are worth considering. $260 for a goatskin A-2 with wool knits and cotton lining. That's still a lot less than Flight Suits or anybody else. A hundred more for horsehide. That's still less than anybody else. But once you start factoring in custom work and the quest for more accurate zipper, leather that will patina a certain way, etc., you're already in another zone. And if you're looking on eBay, that's a whole other thing than buying a new jacket from the factory - and it's not an approach that everyone is comfortable with, especially on their first or second A-2.

Frankly, I like my US A horshide A-2 more than my Flight Suits M-422A, which cost almost $100 more. It's cut far closer to the old-school jackets (it doesn't have Schwartzennegarian shoulders and arms that I don't need), and I really don't see how the contemporary YKK zipper on the M-422A is any "better" than the Talon on the US A A-2. I think the horsehide on the A-2 has tons more character than the goatskin on the M-422A, which seems virtually the same (aside from the finish color) as the goatskin on my FS Civil A-2, which cost $200 less.

Some folks will be fine with the level of "accuracy" and the materials/construction of US Authentic's jackets, but many folks - especially those who have a bunch of other jackets and are farther along in their education - won't. It's all up to where you are and what you want.

And the way this discussion has gone shows exactly why there's no point in saying anything nice about US Authentic - you always get shouted down by people who have completely lost sight that some folks just want to buy a decent repro at a decent price, without getting hung up on the details and the quest for accuracy...

 

[MudInYerEye]

No matter how you slice it, it's still baloney.

Some folks will be fine with the level of "accuracy" and the materials/construction of US Authentic's jackets, but many folks - especially those who have a bunch of other jackets and are farther along in their education - won't. It's all up to where you are and what you want.

And the way this discussion has gone shows exactly why there's no point in saying anything nice about US Authentic - you always get shouted down by people who have completely lost sight that some folks just want to buy a decent repro at a decent price, without getting hung up on the details and the quest for accuracy...

The tone of the words above closely resemble those of other upset posters I've read on various forums. Some posters declare a favorite repro-maker and get quite upset when anyone says something less than flattering about said maker. I've seen people defend ELC, Aero, Rickson's, both McCoy's, Cooper, and now USA with this prejudiced fervor. I see this attitude as counter-productive. Personally, I have no particular favorite maker, they all have their respective merits.
One of my (perhaps mistaken, I am OFTEN wrong) impressions of this and other forums is that we are here to help educate eachother regarding all manners of applicable pursuits and to help eachother avoid making costly mistakes. The jist of my original post in this thread was that the high-end repros can be had on eBay for the same price or less as USA, and that a valuable and productive member of the VLJIII forum had run into problems with a custom jacket from USA. I mentioned this not to smear USA, but to better inform those new to the hobby. Business is business, regardless of whether Mr.Dover owns a mom-and-pop outfit in competition against giants like Aero or Eastman, it was his choice to endeavor in the repro jacket market and his craftsmanship should be held to the same standards. If Aero, or ELC, or Rickson's, etc had provided a similar jacket they would be subject to the same criticism.
Are USA jackets worth owning? Of course. Can you get an Aero or ELC A-2 at roughly the same price as a new USA on eBay? Yes.
The important thing for those newly-interested in purchasing a repro A-2 jacket is to take your time, carefully read the posts on various forums and learn as much as you can about both original contractors and all the repro vendors, then decide what you'd like to spend and whether you'd settle for a second-hand jacket or insist on a new one. Then go to town, but carefully and deliberately.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Well said!

I didn't mean to come across as some kind of US Authentic chauvinist - I mean, I own exactly *one* of their jackets, and I visited them exactly *once*, four years ago when I got it. I just wanted to stick up for a small outfit that does a decent job for a certain segment of the market. It bothers me to see them dismissed and castigated because they're not making something at the level of the premium repro makers... their operation is very small, their prices aren't remotely comparable, and they're not really trying to compete at the high end.

The bottom line is, there's plenty of room for all levels of product, and makers, in the repro biz, and part of the fun of being interested in flight jackets is learning about them. The more makers, the better, that's just healthy capitalism for ya... And I hope to eventually get to try one (or more)of *everything*!

 

[airfrogusmc]

The way I look at it is all of these repro comapnies could use some improvment even all of the so called higher end companies. The only reason I own a repro is I can't find original A-2s in my size that are wearable for under 3 grand. The good thing is you can find some G-1s for reasonable prices in large sizes. The most important thing is you find a jacket that fit your needs and the only way to really know without seeing them all for yourself is reading things that people that have owned them have to say about them. If you don't want to spend the $$$ on an Eastman or Aero there is US Authentic. My point in my post is the way the leather wears is important to me. That might not be important to someone else and thats cool. But if that kind of thing is important to you like it is to me then you need to consider other options.

 

[bfrench]

The way I look at it is all of these repro comapnies could use some improvment even all of the so called higher end companies.

SNIP

My point in my post is the way the leather wears is important to me. That might not be important to someone else and thats cool. But if that kind of thing is important to you like it is to me then you need to consider other options.

Hi, Allen,

That's a question I've never had answered to my satisfaction - just how much difference is there between the horsehide US A would use and that by RMNZ?

Is it a day and night difference or maybe just the different protective coatings used that make the way a jacket wears?

Bill French

 

[SHARPETOYS]

I want to know that also.. What about the Flight Suits horsehide>>>>

 

[airfrogusmc]

Night and day. Allot of the leathers that USA uses and FS uses are drum dyed which causes the dyes to saturate the hides so they never wear to a light base. And then theres the heavy finishes...Aero also offers some great hides that wear to a light base also.

 

[bfrench]

Night and day. Allot of the leathers that USA uses and FS uses are drum dyed which causes the dyes to saturate the hides so they never wear to a light base. And then theres the heavy finishes...Aero also offers some great hides that wear to a light base also.

Hi, airfrogusmc,

I always thought that the higher end repro makers used drum dyed leather also with an aniline dye then a light surface pigment for protection.

Is it this pigment that your are referring to as rubbing off to show the base color underneath?

That's the one problem with the FS horsehide finish - the drum dyed color and the finish are the same color plus it is a very durable finish giving too much protection to the surface.

Their drum dyed goat is a little different - the leather is aniline drum dyed but uses a clear very light pigment for the surface protection. This is starting to wear away around the pores after three months - in a few years it should have that patina one would expect on older jackets.

Bill French

 

[airfrogusmc]

Bill FS veg tanned goat anyway the samples that I saw had a light base unlike their reg goat which is the same color all the way through. Their reg goat is still very nice it just wont wear to show a lighter base because its dyed through. If you want a jcket thats going to always look new then thats the jacket for you. If you want a jacket thats going show some wear maybe a FS with veg goat, Aero, The Few, Ricksons or McCoys would be a better choice. Aero and McCoys use allot of different hides so I would recommend getting samples from them to see whats available.

 

[bfrench]

Bill FS veg tanned goat anyway the samples that I saw had a light base unlike their reg goat which is the same color all the way through. Their reg goat is still very nice it just wont wear to show a lighter base because its dyed through. If you want a jcket thats going to always look new then thats the jacket for you. If you want a jacket thats going show some wear maybe a FS with veg goat, Aero, The Few, Ricksons or McCoys would be a better choice. Aero and McCoys use allot of different hides so I would recommend getting samples from them to see whats available.

Hi, airfrogusmc,

I think I'm getting it now.

The higher end leather is tanned with a base color - say tan - then coated by some means with another color that will wear off and expose the base through time. The better leather grades having few defects doesn't need covering just a thin layer for protection.

The higher end using aniline dyes where the entry level is using pretty much an all in one process - drum dyeing - with the same color light pigment for protection.

The cheaper version will always have that dye color showing no matter how much it wears. Plus the cheaper the leather - the more the defects = heavier pigments to cover these.

It's surprising what a coat of paint can cover up.

 

[Zach R.]

I was wondering, has anyone ever considered buying an A2 from Wested Leather?

I assume that it is just as customizable as the Indy Jacket they offer, why not see what they could come up with? I mean, they even offer horsehide at no additional charge IIRC.

 

[Weston]

Yes, I'm curious about that...thought of asking them to do one, but no one seemed to have experienced ordering one.

Also, how will goat wear over time? I realize it won't get as cool looking as horsehide, but what can I expect here?

 

[airfrogusmc]

Goat can look just as good if not better depending on how it was tanned and dyed. Again if it drum dyed the same color as the finish then it will never get that lighter base showing because there is no lighter base to show. Aero has some outstanding goat that has a lighter base that wears beautifully. As good as any horsehide. Most jacket makers use heavy finishes and drum dyed chrome tanned jackets because the hides are more readily available and are cheaper.