Unique or Creepy? - The story of a "red" dress

[Deco-Doll-1928]

I came across this story yesterday and I was wondering what people think about it.

Has the dress become a unique piece of history or is a Nazi flag a Nazi flag no matter how much it has been changed?

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44644153/ns/today-today_people/t/dress-made-nazi-flag-reveals-owners-past-spy/

 

[Marc Chevalier]

That was one heck of a big flag. Then again, the Reichstag was big.

 

[Deco-Doll-1928]

Yeah, I thought that too. I was so amazed there was enough fabric to make that dress. Considering the skirt alone.

 

[matrioshka]

It could have been one of the banners that were hung off the side of a building. They were huge.

 

[dhermann1]

Whatever it was, I think it's totally cool. She took a symbol of evil and totally trumped it. As an onbect it's just a piece of cloth. It really doesn't possess any "magic evil cooties" that would make it anathema for all time. She turned it into an emblem of triumph. Hooray for her.

 

[Steven180]

Unique.

Resistance to the end. I hope she watches that TV in bliss.

M.

 

[ButteMT61]

Well, the "symbol" has been around way longer than Nazis, and it's not in an of itself evil. However, the flag would fall under that category OK.
Pretty neat story. Thanks for posting.

 

[Sgt Brown]

As it is being auctioned, I just hope it doesn't end up in the hands of neo-nazis who would treat it as a symbol.

Tom

 

[Heeresbergführer]

Interesting story...but hard to believe some of it...especially the taking of the flag from the Reichstag...and possibly the stealing of Goering's Mercedes. First, the Russians fought the Battle of Berlin from 20 April 1945 until 2 May 1945. The Reichstag, which was gutted by fire in 1933, was the scene of a fierce battle which left nothing but pock marks and dead bodies. The Americans, British, and French didn't arrive in Berlin until July 1945...2 months later.

Then comes the stealing of Goering's car. Well, Goering had one of his cars, along with 25 other vehicles, when he was captured on 9 May 1945 by Brigadier General Robert I. Stack, Assistant Division Commander, U.S. 36th Infantry Division, in Austria. BG Stack said that Goering's armored Mercedes was such a "white elephant" that he presented it to the commanding general of Seventh Army. Another of Goering's cars was liberated by the 101st Airborne Division in Berchtesgaden.

So maybe the 'love interest' GI embellished his story to impress the girl...could pick up a Mercedes just about anywhere since the Germans had very little gasoline for the civilian population to use during the war. As for the Nazi banner which were found everywhere in Germany, the big ones are about 5-1/2 feet by 16 feet (about 5 yards of fabric)...so I think it would have been enough to make a dress out of....an interesting piece of history.

Cheers,

Patrick

 

[Mike in Seattle]

And we can all relive the story next year, when it comes out as a major motion picture starring Lenardo DiCaprio and Scarlett Johansen...or some other odd pairing of celebrities...

 

[Shangas]

I don't think there's anything necessarily creepy about this. I go with 'Unique'. They took a symbol of evil and they turned it into something beautiful to celebrate the END of that evil.

EDIT: Regarding the amount of red cloth, I believe it could've been one of those ENORMOUS red banners, such as these photographed here, hanging off the Brandenburg Gate:

A banner such as this would have AMPLE cloth to make a dress. And you can see in the photo where the roundel has been removed to make the semicircular neckline and shoulders at the top of the dress:

 

[Phineas Lamour]

Awesome story. I like how she had a dress made from their flag and wore it to parties celebrating victory over them. Not creepy at all.

 

[Edward]

YES. I'm all for repurposing, and there is a lovely irony in what was done with this.

At the end of the day, though.... it was only a flag. All flags - any flag - is nothing, nothing, more than a bit of cloth. To fear or revere a bit of cloth for its own sake is missing the point on a colossal scale. Fight the real enemy, and all that.

 

[MikeKardec]

I remember a number of years ago a fried of my family's who had a trading post on the Navajo reservation took in a huge Germantown rug (the best yarn dies for Indian rugs came from Germantown Penn.). It was in amazing condition, having been woven in the 1920s or so. Eye searing red with a giant black swastika ... it wasn't a Nazi flag but you really did a double take when you saw it. Objectively, it was immensely valuable but it took 15 years and a huge drop in price to sell it.

Wild.

 

[Deco-Doll-1928]

I remember a number of years ago a fried of my family's who had a trading post on the Navajo reservation took in a huge Germantown rug (the best yarn dies for Indian rugs came from Germantown Penn.). It was in amazing condition, having been woven in the 1920s or so. Eye searing red with a giant black swastika ... it wasn't a Nazi flag but you really did a double take when you saw it. Objectively, it was immensely valuable but it took 15 years and a huge drop in price to sell it.

Wild.

I was at a museum not long ago that was displaying some items from the Arts and Crafts era. One of the items was a lamp. The lamp had some swastikas on them. I remember someone that was with their girlfriend was pointing them out. I told my friend later, "I wonder how many people have seen this lamp only to point out the swastikas on them." It seems kind of sad actually since the swastika is now remember for a very infamous part of history rather than what it once was. It was considered for a while a good luck symbol rather than a symbol of evil.

BTW, welcome to the Lounge.

 

[Deco-Doll-1928]

I would like to thank everybody that has posted on this thread. I'm also very happy that everybody has kept the talk very civil.

 

[Heeresbergführer]

Here's a little history of the US 45th Infantry Division's emblem which was a swastika up until WW2:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/swastika/Walker_200105.html

 

[Yeps]

I think the reason this dress is cool rather than creepy is the intention of the wearer/maker. It is an act of defiance and celebration of the downfall of the regime. If it was worn by a racial supremacist as a glorification of nazi ideals, it would be creepy.

 

[Deco-Doll-1928]

Here's a little history of the US 45th Infantry Division's emblem which was a swastika up until WW2:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Hitler/swastika/Walker_200105.html

Thank you so much for the link. I had no idea.

I remember reading this book up in Big Bear. It contained all of these historic photos of Big Bear and around Big Bear Lake. One of the photos was of a camp (I think it was for children, but I could be wrong about that) and it had swastikas all over it. The book had explain at that particular moment in time, the swastika meant something completely different. After WWII, it brought an end to that camp!

I'm very sorry. I always try to welcome new comers to the Lounge, but sometimes I forget. Forgive me!

 

[Deco-Doll-1928]

I think the reason this dress is cool rather than creepy is the intention of the wearer/maker. It is an act of defiance and celebration of the downfall of the regime. If it was worn by a racial supremacist as a glorification of nazi ideals, it would be creepy.

That is a very good point.