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Wait, you're saying movies are exaggerated? Who knew??? :eeek:
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Top gun movie jacket
- Thread starter Baron Enski
- Start date
Otter
One Too Many
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Don't even get me started on that movie! Why they went with fiction when they could of made a film about the capture of U505 with all the action and intrigue you could want! U505 is something we Americans can be justifiably proud of.
Maybe Mav's dad got his G1 from a friend in the Coast Guard where they are issued G1s with hand warmer pockets hidden behind the patch pockets? Maybe Hollywood didn't know they were "issuing" Mav a Coast Guard G1?
There are several different styled Orchard G1s and A2s being offered on ebay, including a Coast Guard cowhide G1 without the fur collar. It's basically an AN-J-3, which is probably my favorite jacket. I'm tempted... Has anybody here purchased an Orchard G1 from Orchard Motorcycle Distributors on ebay recently? The best way to find the AN-J-3 styled jacket I mention is to search "cowhide G1" on ebay.
There are several different styled Orchard G1s and A2s being offered on ebay, including a Coast Guard cowhide G1 without the fur collar. It's basically an AN-J-3, which is probably my favorite jacket. I'm tempted... Has anybody here purchased an Orchard G1 from Orchard Motorcycle Distributors on ebay recently? The best way to find the AN-J-3 styled jacket I mention is to search "cowhide G1" on ebay.
Aerojoe
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In the USA, Coast Guard is part of the armed forces. Since G1 were part of the uniform, they should have their G1 too.
I'm not so sure there were G1s with hand warmers. I've never seen one. Maybe private purchases or modified jackets. I have the current mil-spec G1 and it has no hand warmers.
Yup, there are G1s with hand warmer pockets from several manufacturers. Many are not mil-spec. The US Coast Guard issued G1s have hidden hand warmer pockets behind the patch pockets. Go on ebay and search for cowhide G1, and you'll see what I mean. As long as I've been interested in G1s (a few years now) the Coast Guard G1s have had hand warmer pockets.
I have a G1 from Pop's leather in Turkey, as well as a Sporty's AN-J-3 (G1 without the mouton fur on the collar) and they both have hand warmers. Neither is mil-spec, but I really do like hand warmer pockets, so long as they are hidden. I don't like the way some companies (Gibson and Barnes jumps to mind) add hand warmer pockets that are not hidden behind the patch pockets. To me, non-hidden hand warmers stick out like a sore thumb. Hidden hand warmers, on the other hand, add versatility to the jacket without ruining the look. Yeah, I know they are not historically accurate on G1s (except for the Coast Guard jackets), but they are very practical and the Navy G1 would be a better jacket if it had them. So there, I said it...
I have a G1 from Pop's leather in Turkey, as well as a Sporty's AN-J-3 (G1 without the mouton fur on the collar) and they both have hand warmers. Neither is mil-spec, but I really do like hand warmer pockets, so long as they are hidden. I don't like the way some companies (Gibson and Barnes jumps to mind) add hand warmer pockets that are not hidden behind the patch pockets. To me, non-hidden hand warmers stick out like a sore thumb. Hidden hand warmers, on the other hand, add versatility to the jacket without ruining the look. Yeah, I know they are not historically accurate on G1s (except for the Coast Guard jackets), but they are very practical and the Navy G1 would be a better jacket if it had them. So there, I said it...
Aerojoe
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But what it is the spec of these jackets? Here you have all G1 specs till 1972 (7823E) and none of them have hand warmers [huh]
http://moorecustom.com/jackets/Moore_Jackets_navy.htm
AviatorBRZ
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KELORGO, USCG aviation started, I believe, in 1916. And yes they have issued G-1s to the USCG aviators. I will be posting a thread about one of these jackets soon.
However I have to confess that i never saw any G-1 (military-issued) jacket with hand warmers except for that Orchard jacket. Where you got this information about USCG G-1s have hand warmers?
About the Orchard M/C Dist. Inc. I've heard something about they have continued producing 7823E(AS) jackets until some years ago under that contract of 1986. So maybe some Orchard jackets with that contract "DLA100-86-C-0481" aren't really made in 1986, maybe newer.
EDIT : I know they issued G-1 to USCG aviators in the early 40's, previous that period I'm not sure.
However I have to confess that i never saw any G-1 (military-issued) jacket with hand warmers except for that Orchard jacket. Where you got this information about USCG G-1s have hand warmers?
About the Orchard M/C Dist. Inc. I've heard something about they have continued producing 7823E(AS) jackets until some years ago under that contract of 1986. So maybe some Orchard jackets with that contract "DLA100-86-C-0481" aren't really made in 1986, maybe newer.
EDIT : I know they issued G-1 to USCG aviators in the early 40's, previous that period I'm not sure.
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Aerojoe,
Try as I might, I can't read the spec tag on the Orchard furless collar Coast Guard G-1 that's listed on ebay. Whey I blow up the tag for size it's just to blurry to read. A different US Coast Guard G-1 that just sold on ebay had the following on its tag"
Jacket, Flyer's, Intermediate, Type G-1
Size - -
MIL-J-7823E (AS)
Orchard M/C Dist. Inc
8415-00-286-7802
DLA 100-86-C-0481
The MIL-J-7823E (AS) is the most current Navy MIL Spec. I believe the jackets can be made out of goatskin or cowhide, the cowhide with a "pressed in" pattern that simulates the grain of goatskin. I hope somebody better versed in G-1s and Mil-Spec numbers will join this thread and educate me on the Coast Guard G-1. Maybe the hand warmer code is buried somewhere on the tag above?
Try as I might, I can't read the spec tag on the Orchard furless collar Coast Guard G-1 that's listed on ebay. Whey I blow up the tag for size it's just to blurry to read. A different US Coast Guard G-1 that just sold on ebay had the following on its tag"
Jacket, Flyer's, Intermediate, Type G-1
Size - -
MIL-J-7823E (AS)
Orchard M/C Dist. Inc
8415-00-286-7802
DLA 100-86-C-0481
The MIL-J-7823E (AS) is the most current Navy MIL Spec. I believe the jackets can be made out of goatskin or cowhide, the cowhide with a "pressed in" pattern that simulates the grain of goatskin. I hope somebody better versed in G-1s and Mil-Spec numbers will join this thread and educate me on the Coast Guard G-1. Maybe the hand warmer code is buried somewhere on the tag above?
Treetopflyer
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OK, to clear up some things about the side pockets or "hand warmers" as they have been called. They are not correct for issued G-1s, they never have been. However, I have known several aviators that have had the jackets altered to have the stitching removed from the back of the pocket to create them. So, to say that they don't exist in the fleet is wrong.
Also, if an Aviator has an "extra" leather jacket to put all of there cruise patches on, they purchased them privately. The issued leather flight jackets are very closely tracked in the supply system. You have to sign for them when they are issued and they are tracked in your NATOPS jacket, which follows you to every command you check-in to. You would have an easier time getting an extra aircraft through the supply system then a leather jacket. We have the abuse of the system in the 1970's and early 80's to thank for that.
Also, if an Aviator has an "extra" leather jacket to put all of there cruise patches on, they purchased them privately. The issued leather flight jackets are very closely tracked in the supply system. You have to sign for them when they are issued and they are tracked in your NATOPS jacket, which follows you to every command you check-in to. You would have an easier time getting an extra aircraft through the supply system then a leather jacket. We have the abuse of the system in the 1970's and early 80's to thank for that.
AviatorBRZ
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Treetopflyer, Nice info you gave to us. I knew about the non-existance of the side pockets on military-issue jackets but wasn't sure, because there was some amendments on the 7823E(AS) spec. that I couldn't find the documents.
Yes, it's easy to cut of the stitches and create an side pocket, but it's interesting to know that the pilots did that.
Where you got this information? And what means "NATOPS"?
So, could you tell us more about how many jackets are issued to aviators and in what situation they could have an spare jacket?
An could you tell us about the "abuse of the system in the 1970's and early 80's".
By the way, liked your Brubaker avatar, great movie!
Yes, it's easy to cut of the stitches and create an side pocket, but it's interesting to know that the pilots did that.
Where you got this information? And what means "NATOPS"?
So, could you tell us more about how many jackets are issued to aviators and in what situation they could have an spare jacket?
An could you tell us about the "abuse of the system in the 1970's and early 80's".
By the way, liked your Brubaker avatar, great movie!
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Treetopflyer
Practically Family
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NATOPS stands for Naval Air Training and Operating Procedures Standardization. It is the general nomenclature for the operator’s manual for the aircraft, but it also refers to a pilot’s qualification and training jacket. It is a folder that contains copies of all of their designations and qualifications as a pilot; along with a list of flight gear they have been issued. Next to the flight log book it is the second most important piece of documentation you carry with you throughout an aviation career.
Navy, Marine and Coast Guard aviators all get the same basic issue for flight jackets. They get their leather G-1 along with the green Nomex. I have heard that they are phasing out the nomex jackets. Squadrons can issue out other styles of flight jackets. A new one that hit the Fleet about five years ago, but has not been readily available until about a year ago, is the new green fleece. They are very comfortable and warm, but they do not hold up well over time. Since you sign for these jackets when they are issued to you in your NATOPS, it is very difficult to get an extra. It is possible, but it is rare. The guys that issue them our are audited all the time.
To answer your question, I know this because I have been hanging out with Naval Aviators for about ten years now.
Navy, Marine and Coast Guard aviators all get the same basic issue for flight jackets. They get their leather G-1 along with the green Nomex. I have heard that they are phasing out the nomex jackets. Squadrons can issue out other styles of flight jackets. A new one that hit the Fleet about five years ago, but has not been readily available until about a year ago, is the new green fleece. They are very comfortable and warm, but they do not hold up well over time. Since you sign for these jackets when they are issued to you in your NATOPS, it is very difficult to get an extra. It is possible, but it is rare. The guys that issue them our are audited all the time.
To answer your question, I know this because I have been hanging out with Naval Aviators for about ten years now.
Treetopflyer
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A great reference book is "Hell-Bent for Leather: The Saga of the A-2 and G-1 Flight Jackets". ISBN 10: 0879384387 / 0-87938-438-7
ISBN 13: 9780879384388 Publisher: Motorbooks Intl Publication Date: 1990
ISBN 13: 9780879384388 Publisher: Motorbooks Intl Publication Date: 1990
AviatorBRZ
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Treetopflyer, thanks for the info.
When I was searching about the NATOPS doc. I've found and downloaded an .pdf file who contains the "OPNAVINST 3710.7U" doc. and I'll take a look now what is in it.
Here's the link of the web site where I've downloaded it if someone else are interested, there's a lot of information there.:
http://www.cnatra.navy.mil
I'll try to find this Book. (Hell-Bent for Leather: The Saga of the A-2 and G-1 Flight Jackets). Thank you for the tip.
When I was searching about the NATOPS doc. I've found and downloaded an .pdf file who contains the "OPNAVINST 3710.7U" doc. and I'll take a look now what is in it.
Here's the link of the web site where I've downloaded it if someone else are interested, there's a lot of information there.:
http://www.cnatra.navy.mil
I'll try to find this Book. (Hell-Bent for Leather: The Saga of the A-2 and G-1 Flight Jackets). Thank you for the tip.
Otter
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Still quite expensive for a secondhand copy. There was a big thread on this over on VLJ recently if that is any help.
Aerojoe
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I can't register on that site because I don't have an e-mail address from my ISP. A big no sense rule.
Did they say anything interesting?
Otter
One Too Many
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Full Gear by Rota Mituhiro; American Flight Jackets: A History of U.S. Flyers Jackets from World War II to Desert Storm; "Suit Up! The flight jacket" is a pretty decent book for the photos as well.
Quotes ripped shamelessly from the thread. All very good but quite pricey. I have The Art of the Flight Jacket which as it sounds is mainly about photos of nose art painted jackets. Great photos, but will set you salivating for a painted jacket if you are anything like me.
Quotes ripped shamelessly from the thread. All very good but quite pricey. I have The Art of the Flight Jacket which as it sounds is mainly about photos of nose art painted jackets. Great photos, but will set you salivating for a painted jacket if you are anything like me.
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Treetopflyer
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That is what we call “Big NATOPS”. It is the overall guidance for Naval Aviation Operating procedures. It is very general in nature. As you go down the line in the chain of command they all have their specific rules they add to the 3710. It is the Navy’s version of the of the FAA's FAR/AIM, and they mirror each other in a lot of the content.
NATOPS manuals used to have blue covers on them. It is said that if you can’t fall asleep, just use the big blue sleeping pill. Two minutes into reading it and you'll be asleep.
AviatorBRZ
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Lol
You know, I've didn't found anything about g-1 jackets in that document, but I've discovered that beards are forbidden for military aviators because it's doesn't allow a good fit of the oxigen mask.
However I've to confess, as I love aviation I couldn't stop reading that document. There's so much interesting informations. To who is a pilot or just even to who just like aviation, this is a great document to read.
You know, I've didn't found anything about g-1 jackets in that document, but I've discovered that beards are forbidden for military aviators because it's doesn't allow a good fit of the oxigen mask.
However I've to confess, as I love aviation I couldn't stop reading that document. There's so much interesting informations. To who is a pilot or just even to who just like aviation, this is a great document to read.
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