"Too much crown"

[Art Fawcett]

Doublegun, knowing Gus, Id bet the house he was talking about how the specific hat looked on you, to him. The tall crown, wide brim really doesn't always look good depending on body and face types. One of the jobs of a hatter is to try to fit the hat to the client, not just take orders as suggested in other posts. I'm 5'8" and 140 lbs so when I put that style on, it swallows me up, it's too much crown AND brim for me. Granted, Gus can be short in his responses but I wouldn't doubt that there is/was some validity to his words, just not well explained.
Bottom line though? All of this is just opinion and you know what is said about that.

 

[Art Fawcett]

The true craftsman is master of his art: he can DO anything; and--if he is actually a craftsman, not an auteur-artist type--he WILL do anything his customer asks him to do. He may not like it...but the best ones will answer any questions asked, describe difficulties that might arise down the road (if any)...and then keep their mouth closed, do the work, and pick up their pay.

Skeet, I tried to not respond to this but I just HAVE to. Do you mean it to be as insulting as it reads? Do you really think that the difference between craftsman and amateur is that the craftsman will do anything, even if wrong?
To me, that's called prostitution.
I have to beg to differ with you. Before I became a hatter, I was a stone mason and yes, I told some of the most powerful in this country that I would NOT do what they wanted as they would want to sue me later if I did. Yes, I have walked away from jobs and hats for that matter.
Does that mean, by your definition, that I was an amateur? Even after 37 yrs in the trade?
If I'm asked to build a hat that offends my taste I will not build it. I don't make pimp hats or clown hats no matter how much is offered or who you are because my NAME goes on the hat. It's because I care about the product that my name goes on, that I believe you are as wrong as one can get with your statement. It shows the level of respect that you have for craftsmen.

Clearly, because of my convictions, I will never achieve "best" status as there just isn't enough "pay" to force me to shut my mouth, do the work, and pick up.

 

[Belegnole]

It is possible that's what he meant. Now I really don't want to post photos of me under that lid.

I am absolutely sure that many do not think that I look good in a kilt, and I don't care. Those who care about me cheer me on while laughing.....

One man's opinion about you and your hat should not get you down. Even if that man is a Master Hatter. Other Master Hatters may not agree and the final choice is yours as to what you like.

Now you must show us the hat....with your head in it.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Now, THAT is funny!!!!
Funniest thing I've seen here recently Chuck.
Others could take a tip from you and lighten up a bit. WHAT A HOOT!!!!
Thanks!

Chucklol lol lol lol

 

[elvisroe]

keep on bashing!

I've gotta say it took me a while to get used to the crown on the Fed iv and plenty of bashing and rebashing to get it to suit my head.

For me as a tall guy with a longer face, the straight up and down stovepipe (indy) look really made my head look HUGE!

I bought the Fed coz I was sick if tightfitting tapered numbers like the Stylemaster and the Hampton (a triby but similar look) but I found that I actually did need a bit of taper to suit my face so a deep centre-crease, low back (tugboat?) and longer side dents left it looking less blocky and my head less huge.

I think it really is about finding a bash that suits your face and a new shape is only a whistling kettle away. I reckon Rebashing a hat is half the fun!

 

["Skeet" McD]

Skeet, I tried to not respond to this but I just HAVE to. Do you mean it to be as insulting as it reads? Do you really think that the difference between craftsman and amateur is that the craftsman will do anything, even if wrong?...It's because I care about the product that my name goes on, that I believe you are as wrong as one can get with your statement. It shows the level of respect that you have for craftsmen.

Dear Art,
I think you have misunderstood me...and my comments were certainly not meant to be insulting; neither do I think that they are. I can't, of course, guarantee that you--nor someone else--won't be offended.

Remember that I am responding to the post that Fletch forwarded, and in that post the anonymous author seems to be saying that craftsmen (by his definition) ONLY know how to do what they have been taught: if it's not in their tradition, it's entirely outside their ken...and therefore they can't/won't do it. My response is to say that the craftsmen I have met can pretty much do anything in their trade that's required; they are masters of the work that they do.

Let's hope that the ground of your spirited defense of your own approach to your craft is...as misreading. I said "auteur-artist," not "amateur." To define my use of the terms...a craftsman is just what I said: fully capable of doing what is required. But a housepainter doesn't quibble with the color the owner of the house has selected: he paints the house as well as he knows how.

An auteur (or artist) is another thing entirely. They are being paid for their aesthetic judgement. Some are also masters of their trade (and, from what the buzz is around this place, I'd say you clearly are). But the person who goes to you is almost certainly LOOKING for...and willing to pay for...something beyond your technical competence. This is the high end, if you will...the difference between, in the old days, going to your town dressmaker (who we will assume to be fully technically competent to make anything you ask her to) and going to the House of Worth in Paris...who will design and construct something of a very high level of artistry as well as technical competence.

Hopefully that clears up my meaning. I don't think that a craftsman is demeaned by giving the customer what he wants, as long as it is done as well as it can be; in other words, if the customer wants a clown hat....well, he's the one wearing and paying for it. If it is a good, serviceable hat, I personally see no shame in providing it. But--however unfashionable the concept may be in today's world--I also have no difficulty in turning away work one does not care to perform, as long as it is done respectfully and the workman is willing to accept whatever the results might be.

I'd be very happy to hear you retract your comment regarding my alleged lack of respect for craftsmen--which I assure you is certainly not the case. But opinions can, and will, differ.

I hope we have nothing to differ about?

Respectfully,
"Skeet"

 

[Art Fawcett]

Thank you Skeet, I DID misread your statement and all it entailed by the misreading. Not having seen the word "auteur" before I thought you did what I often do, that is think one thing and type another with unruly fingers.
I see your point with using house painters as an example, so the only difference I can see between us is in how broad our definitions are in "craftsmen". No need to go there as it isn't important and can easily get into semantics. I DO know quite a few tradesmen/craftsmen/artists that feel as I do and would bet that some wouldn't paint that bright pink color in a beige neighborhood no matter the payment.

At any rate please accept my apology for the misunderstanding.

 

["Skeet" McD]

Thank you Skeet, I DID misread your statement and all it entailed by the misreading...please accept my apology for the misunderstanding.

Dear Art,
Thank you so much for your very generous post, and I assure you: no offense taken, and so happy it does boil down to nothing but a misreading, leaving only those small differences of opinion--perhaps nothing but semantics, as you say--that give reasonable people something to talk about over a pint!

If I ever succeed in getting rich enough to afford a fine hat, you are on the very short list of custom makers I'd consider...then we'd have a chance to compare tastes...and, for all I know...you may get your chance to tell ME to take a hike! But I hope not.

Respectfully,
"Skeet"

 

[Carlisle Blues]

At any rate please accept my apology for the misunderstanding.

[QUOTE="Skeet" McD]Dear Art,
Thank you so much for your very generous post,

Respectfully,
"Skeet"[/QUOTE]


This is one great reason to keep coming back to The Fedora Lounge!!!!!!!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

["Skeet" McD]

This is one great reason to keep coming back to The Fedora Lounge!!!!!!!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Dear CB,
I couldn't agree more: but I'm a relative newcomer here, and the tone of the place was set long before I arrived. It was formed, and is maintained, by many, many folks like yourself (I think particularly of your thread regarding being grateful for the FL, and your posts regarding the concert you did for the veterans). It's kept ME coming back, that's for sure.

Thank you again for your kind words.

"Skeet"

 

[Carlisle Blues]

[QUOTE="Skeet" McD]Dear CB,
I couldn't agree more: but I'm a relative newcomer here, and the tone of the place was set long before I arrived. It was formed, and is maintained, by many, many folks like yourself (I think particularly of your thread regarding being grateful for the FL, and your posts regarding the concert you did for the veterans). It's kept ME coming back, that's for sure.

Thank you again for your kind words.

"Skeet"[/QUOTE]

Your very welcomed and thank you as well

 

[Goose.]

Hey DoubleGun...if ya don't want your mug in the pic posted, how about just a pic of the hat?
Having asked that, it's hard to determine what "too much crown" could mean anyway.
It has to do with the overall proportion of "the look" to include the wearer. Varies.
Well, if for nothing else, thank your for the start of an interesting thread and to all for the subsequent informative posts.

 

[Neil]

Ugh

Art Fawcett going medieval on some guy is way more interesting than kumbaya.

 

[awest84532]

Interesting...

I got two Federation IV's last week and have been working on a bash/crease on them. This weekend my wife informed me their was too much crown. I thought I would be safe with the tall crown as I am 5'18" and weigh in around 265 lbs.

So what suggestions do you have to salve Gus's/wife's opinion? I have had a couple of door frames tap the top of my hat. And I do want to get one in fawn and dark brown, so I have to please!

 

[avedwards]

Crease the hat so that it has a very shallow crown? Noir films often have deep creases on the fedoras, copy them. A deep teardrop crown or diamond crease or a combination of the two (referred to as a "shield" in some threads.

 

[Chuck Bobuck]

I got two Federation IV's last week and have been working on a bash/crease on them. This weekend my wife informed me their was too much crown. I thought I would be safe with the tall crown as I am 5'18" and weigh in around 265 lbs.

So what suggestions do you have to salve Gus's/wife's opinion? I have had a couple of door frames tap the top of my hat. And I do want to get one in fawn and dark brown, so I have to please!

IMO, sometimes a taller crown takes some wearing to get used to. Otherwise, you can bash it lower easily. Just as easily, if you decide it's too low, put it back into an open crown and start over. I did that with my first Campdraft. Mrs. Bobuck said I looked like I had a coffee can on my head, so I lowered it. After spending some time looking at the great hat photos here, I decided it looked better raised back up.

 

[Feraud]

We need to see a pic of the op in his Fed IV.

 

[Doublegun]

Thinking about this as I walked the dogs last night (while wearing my CD) ; what would have been an appropriate amount to tip Gus (or any old master) for steaming and creasing my Fed IV?

Thanks,

Doublegun

 

[kaosharper1]

I got two Federation IV's last week and have been working on a bash/crease on them. This weekend my wife informed me their was too much crown. I thought I would be safe with the tall crown as I am 5'18" and weigh in around 265 lbs.

So what suggestions do you have to salve Gus's/wife's opinion? I have had a couple of door frames tap the top of my hat. And I do want to get one in fawn and dark brown, so I have to please!

Did you see my earlier post in this thread showing how I bashed my Fed III? In the 1930s it was common to do a deep bash. The hat Art made for me, and the Fed III I show in the post both have 6" crowns, which is even higher than the Fed IV. Bash it to the right height and have the crown pop up in the middle for your hat. It'll work.

 

[elvisroe]

Was there much diference between the Fed iii and the iv? Anyone compare them?