Today's Pinup Fashion a Sly Wink to the Past - New York Times

[John in Covina]

I'd like to know if anyone can give a good outline as to the differences to use as a rule of thumb. In the past we had glamorous women that were quite sexy yet demur, today the attitude seems to be one to push the envelope to a too much is not enough mindset. The move seems to always shift to more and more (or less and less clothing wise) from glamorus to sexy to slutty to skanky. How do you define it so that the young women can get a grasp of the concept that being the hit on Girls Gone Wild does come with a price?

 

[John in Covina]

Quantity does not make up for a lack of quality.

 

[ThesFlishThngs]

I don't know how one would go about it other than showing examples. As you said, 'sexy' women of the golden era were most often a complete package of beauty, elegance, class, style, and confidence. And has been touched upon pages ago on this thread, even the women considered naughty back then have, to our modern eyes, quite a bit of that same glamour, simply because we've been so horribly over-exposed to the crass, booty-in-your-face, skin skin skin culture of these enlightened times.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The kind of woman you'd want your daughter to be is the kind of woman who doesn't have to reduce herself to a sexual plaything to get attention or recognition -- because she understands that the sexual aspect of herself is only a small part of who she is as a human being instead of the primary definition of her identity. And it's up to her parents to teach her that, because she sure isn't going to learn it from the culture she's growing up in. Parents who refuse to discuss such things with their kids in a frank and honest manner have no one to blame but themselves when their kids go wrong.

 

[ThesFlishThngs]

What Lizzie said. Also, having had a daughter turn out amazingly classy in a skanky world, I'm giving a bit of the credit to TCM, which I watched very much while she was growing up. She could (and still can) name all those black and white stars; Claudette Colbert was one of her favorites. And I can still remember as we watched Joan Crawford in "The Unknown", Sara wistfully exclaiming, "she's so beautiful."
While you can't shelter girls from all the junk the world will throw at them, you can do your best to show them class, taste, and elegance with which to help combat it.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Exactly right. You can't turn them loose in the world and let them swallow poison and say "anything you want to do, honey, it's OK with me" -- and then be surprised when they get sick. The best thing you can do is teach them to recognize poison so they'll stay away from it on their own.

 

[Flicka]

Exactly right. You can't turn them loose in the world and let them swallow poison and say "anything you want to do, honey, it's OK with me" -- and then be surprised when they get sick. The best thing you can do is teach them to recognize poison so they'll stay away from it on their own.

Absolutely. That's what parenting is all about - raising children into well-functioning, independent adults. Giving them the tools to make the right decisions is the only thing you can do to protect them - you can't control what life throws at them, only how they react to it.

My grandmother always said that you give your children life twice - first when they're born and then again when you teach them not to need you.

 

[jamespowers]

Don't mention aphids - got a plague of them!

I think women are (or used to be?) held to higher moral standards than men. Put on a pedestal in a way - to provoke men to righteousness by her example. I don't know if the same can be said now. It is a sad thing when women attack other women for holding on to their principles.

Yeah, I hate them as well.

Men will be whatever women want them to be. If morals and class are not wanted then that is what they will get. I don't want to hear any complaints when they settle for a dope either. Selective breeding is a good thing in some cases.

 

[LizzieMaine]

If these kids were my daughters I'd be the proudest mother on earth.

On a day when the biggest local news story was the arrest of a prominent insurance executive/community pillar in the next town on a charge of *pimping,* it's stories like the above that keep me from running out in front of a truck.

 

[Flicka]

If these kids were my daughters I'd be the proudest mother on earth.

Me too.

 

[jamespowers]

If these kids were my daughters I'd be the proudest mother on earth.

Indeed but I think they are missing the big picture so to speak. The fact that they take provocative pictures of young girls in the first place is a problem---the root problem. Tell them to cut it out along with photoshopping.

 

[Juliet]

Indeed but I think they are missing the big picture so to speak. The fact that they take provocative pictures of young girls in the first place is a problem---the root problem. Tell them to cut it out along with photoshopping.

They do protest against that:

"The idea there’s this power in being sexualized, we’ve never seen it in quite this way before,” said Brown, an author and Colby College education professor. “This attempt by a younger generation to be more sex-positive — that you can be sexual and powerful and smart all at once — is being picked up by the media and sold as sexualization, basically to sell products."
"Labbe, also of Waterville, is just as outspoken as her teammates. “A male-dominated culture where girls are made to be sex objects — I don’t want to stand for that,” she said."

 

[LizzieMaine]

Exactly. Their attack is multi-pronged, with the photoshopping issue just one aspect of it.

What amazes me is that twelve and thirteen-year-old girls can grasp the problem and be motivated to do something about it while too many thirty and forty year old women today think "raunch culture" is empowering.

 

[lolly_loisides]

What amazes me is that twelve and thirteen-year-old girls can grasp the problem and be motivated to do something about it while too many thirty and forty year old women today think "raunch culture" is empowering.

I think what they're doing is wonderful. Some things about this age is good isn't it?

 

[LizzieMaine]

I've always thought there's plenty of smart kids today, if only they can avoid being corrupted by (a) their parents and (b) the Boys From Marketing. Either way, they've got a real battle on their hands.

 

[Feraud]

If these kids were my daughters I'd be the proudest mother on earth.

I'd be an equally proud parent. Our culture desperately needs to see more of these images rather than the typical celebrity trash we are spoonfed.

What amazes me is that twelve and thirteen-year-old girls can grasp the problem and be motivated to do something about it while too many thirty and forty year old women today think "raunch culture" is empowering.

Don't forget the adult men who foster this mentality. Men have set the foundation these women are building on. All this pin-up/burlesque business was provided for the pleasure of men. The idea that it's become "empowering" to women is an extremely warped concept.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Don't forget the adult men who foster this mentality. Men have set the foundation these women are building on. All this pin-up/burlesque business was provided for the pleasure of men. The idea that it's become "empowering" to women is an extremely warped concept.

Boys desperately need real *men* as role models, not these jumped-up jackasses they see on TV, in popular music, and in sports. Until the whole party-hearty frat-boy culture is stomped into the ground, it's just going to keep on teaching those boys to treat girls like two-dollar hookers.

I've got girls at work who are extremely self-conscious about going out at night on the sidewalk to change the letters on the marquee because carloads of these idiots drive by and yell "whoooo hey fat a**!" and similar respectful comments at them. It makes me want to yank them out of the car and beat their heads in, but while being cathartic it wouldn't solve anything. The boys are only imitating what modern culture tells them is what "men" are supposed to do. It's modern culture that needs to have its head beaten in, and I see it as my duty to these girls I work with to set an example. I wish more people felt that way.

 

[William Stratford]

Don't forget the adult men who foster this mentality. Men have set the foundation these women are building on. All this pin-up/burlesque business was provided for the pleasure of men. The idea that it's become "empowering" to women is an extremely warped concept.

Don't get me started on that damn Von Teese woman; she's a stripper, nothing more, yet people lap her up as some kind of role model.

Boys desperately need real *men* as role models, not these jumped-up jackasses they see on TV, in popular music, and in sports. Until the whole party-hearty frat-boy culture is stomped into the ground, it's just going to keep on teaching those boys to treat girls like two-dollar hookers.

Here, here! Our culture is flooded with kiddult boys who refuse to grow into men (although to an extent we can hardly blame them considering how society today portrays fathers and fatherhood ).

 

[LizzieMaine]

Real men:

Not real men:

Real man:

Not real man:

Not real man:

Real man:

 

[Feraud]

It is a shame to think these morons are driving around yelling at young ladies like that. They need a good a## whipping.
Unfortunately some parents can be a child's worst enemy. I've seen bad parental examples that would make your toes curl.

I'd jump off a roof if my son turned up in a photo similar to those dopes with the funnel and tube.