To bi-swing back or not to bi-swing back?

[Silverpoint]

I am surprised at the 'puffy' comment. I own a number of bischwing jackets, and if they are properly sized and fitted- this is never a problem. On the other hand, I have noted many times an image that someone on this site has posted of their new jacket with a simple paneled back, and it appears to puff outwards. If anything, my experience with my jackets leads me to believe that the bi swing design tends to prevent this.

It is definitely for the more athletic build- but it does tend to look more 'masculine' by comparison.

 

[Highwaymanman]

Is the batwing effect the sign of a jacket that is too small or too large?

 

[Sloan1874]

Oddly, I've seen pics of a jacket on here that had a startling bat-wing effect when the body was too large but the arms too tight - it was a bit of a one-off, though, as it was an extreme Aero mod from the BC days. My instinct, though, would be that it appears where the jacket is too big and the leather to body-mass ratio is out of kilter.

 

[Highwaymanman]

I know someone with a pristine vintage Langlitz Columbia in brown goatskin that batwings a bit.... funny thing is, she insists it's the most comfortable jacket she owns. In any case it's so ridiculously beautiful that she gets away with it and then some.

My highwayman has the shortened bi swing just in the shoulders and I have to say I like it a lot. It doesn't add much to the profile but it sure does help you move. Once upon a time I was an amateur boxer and I can shadow box in the jacket with absolutely no restriction - something I've never been able to do in any other leather jacket. The highwayman fit helps too naturally, being boxy, and mine is such that I layer a shetland sweater under it for best fit.... but even then I can hold a classic boxer's guard - shoulders hunched, arms high with elbows tight in - and throw hard with perfect ease of movement.

 

[ForestForTheTrees]

In my mind, to achieve a certain level of freedom of movement you're either going to require a bi-swing back design or an extra bunching of leather with a plain back design. The bi-swing back simply tucks away the extra leather away under the pleats. Otherwise, if for example you get behind the wheel of a car and start driving with your jacket on, you'll either feel uncomfortable or will have your sleeves riding up your arms considerably, or perhaps both. You can only remove so much material and go so tight in the fit before your functional movement becomes restricted leading one unzip/unbutton or worse remove their jacket when needing to do much more than simply stand around in the thing. At a certain point it becomes a form over function dilemma.

I have to admit that I haven't thought about the bat-wing thing nor do I know what it is. My leather jackets feature bi-swing backs, what is considered the "bat-wing" in these photos.

 

[pauleway]

In my mind, to achieve a certain level of freedom of movement you're either going to require a bi-swing back design or an extra bunching of leather with a plain back design. The bi-swing back simply tucks away the extra leather away under the pleats. Otherwise, if for example you get behind the wheel of a car and start driving with your jacket on, you'll either feel uncomfortable or will have your sleeves riding up your arms considerably, or perhaps both. You can only remove so much material and go so tight in the fit before your functional movement becomes restricted leading one unzip/unbutton or worse remove their jacket when needing to do much more than simply stand around in the thing. At a certain point it becomes a form over function dilemma.

I have to admit that I haven't thought about the bat-wing thing nor do I know what it is. My leather jackets feature bi-swing backs, what is considered the "bat-wing" in these photos.

There is no bat-winging in your jackets. It's when the bi-swing puffs out and stays out. That is what is refered to as bat-winging!

 

[Highwaymanman]

Those jackets both look top notch to me.

 

[ForestForTheTrees]

There is no bat-winging in your jackets. It's when the bi-swing puffs out and stays out. That is what is refered to as bat-winging!

So in other words, it would be like if the pleats came undone and were in effect reversed?

 

[Sir Jacket]

This is a useful discussion (for people interested in such things). I still can't decide, though. For me, part of the appeal of vintage leathers is their simplicity but the big horse hide babies -- I'm thinking of my Stockman at the moment, for example -- can be very stiff to wear.

SJ

 

[Sloan1874]

Personally, I like the freedom of movement the bi-swing gives. I'd be much more conscious of being restricted by a jacket than I would of a little bit more weight.

 

[Sir Jacket]

Sure, that's what I'm thinking of. The Stockman is a bit like a coat of armour. But equally there's an attraction to a jacket that is as simple as possible, the better to show off the beautiful leather.

SJ

 

[InsOma]

I have the bi swing back on my Highwayman and I've always been a little unsure of the whole arrangement. I do have good freedom of movement, but it seems like the pleats are always extended in the shoulders, and there is a bit of a bat wing effect under the arms, where the sides cinch together.

 

[hpalapdog]

Victorian tweed shooting jackets had swingbacks to facilitate arm movement so it is a little bit strange that pilots in the USAAF had to put up with the restrictive design of the A2.
The USN boys got the luxury of under arm gussets and elastic strapped bi-swings !

 

[Deleted member 16736]

I also have a Johnson Leather bi-swing jacket, a 30's aviator halfbelt, and it's very comfortable and there's no bat-wing effect. It just works.

 

[Sir Jacket]

Any pics, Joel?

S

 

[Grayland]

I always considered the "bat wing effect" to be more of a result of larger armholes.

 

[buler]

Any pics, Joel?

S

Here are pics of my Johnson Leathers jacket with bi-swing. It does "puff out" when I put on a little extra weight. But I think that's more of a result of my getting the body of the jacket very fitted.

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[hpalapdog]

I always considered the "bat wing effect" to be more of a result of larger armholes.

Plus USN jackets need the correct tension on the elastic straps. To tight and the inner pleat is pulled in causing unsightly gaping.
The back panel also needs to be cut trim. To large and the wearer is going to find it getting snagged on door frames etc. as well as looking like
some dreadful plonker from the 1980's, an era where jackets worn big seemed all the rage.

 

[pauleway]

So in other words, it would be like if the pleats came undone and were in effect reversed?

Yes. They stay puffed out instead of returning to original form!

 

[Sir Jacket]

"looking like some dreadful plonker from the 1980's, an era where jackets worn big seemed all the rage"

This is what I fear. Well put, Mr Dog.

SJ