Time Warp Wives

[LizzieMaine]

As Viola pointed out, it was mostly a class thing -- it was much rarer for a middle-class woman to work, and much more common for a working class woman to work. That tilts the statistics considerably, since the working class was much larger prior to the war than it was after, and the middle class quite a bit smaller. The US was primarily a working-class country until well into the fifties, when the flood of vets who went thru college on the GI Bill went into the workforce and onward and upward from there. A big part of the strong counterreaction against working women in the fifties and sixties has a lot to do with this class issue -- those newly-middle class people didn't want to be reminded of their roots, and nothing said "working class" to them like a couple where the woman had to work for a living.

Prior to the war, a lot of middle-class women enjoyed their leisure on the backs of working class women -- as late as the mid-thirties, the standard demographic definition for "middle class" meant a family that employed at least one servant, usually a cook/housekeeper/scrubwoman. Nobody thought it was unusual for *her* to work for a living.


I've many times recommended Stephanie Koontz's book "The Way We Never Were," a sociological study of American family life thru the thirties, forties and fifties, which cuts a lot of the vacuuming-in-heels myths down to size. Well worth reading.

 

[reetpleat]

I agree - not only are basic living expenses astronomical compared to the Golden Era, consumer culture is more pervasive. You've always gotta have "more, more, more!" I know plenty of one-income households, complete with children - and some of the income sources may surprise you!

That was just the argument in a nutshell. There are many more details and facets to be considered.

From what I understand, the cost of food is down, but the cost of housing, relative to income that can be made in the area around any given housing, is way up.

Perhaps the best bet is to generate income in a way you can do it from anywhere, then live where it is very cheap.

 

[Viola]

Perhaps the best bet is to generate income in a way you can do it from anywhere, then live where it is very cheap.

I would love to have a job like that and live in West Virginia, which has a lot going for it, but not job-wise.

Yeah the sheer number of housekeepers/maids/nannies that were more normal back in the day; these women had families too.

I know my maternal grandmother was very defensive of the budget that allowed her to pay a woman to come in once a week or once every couple weeks to help her with some of the heavier washing tasks. Not picking up after people - my mom remembers being disabused of THAT notion pretty fast - but just things that were very time-consuming for my grandmother who was working 40+ hours a week. I don't know how that budget would line up today.

 

[C-dot]

I've many times recommended Stephanie Koontz's book "The Way We Never Were," a sociological study of American family life thru the thirties, forties and fifties, which cuts a lot of the vacuuming-in-heels myths down to size. Well worth reading.

I'm going to search my library for it. Thank you very much!

 

[sixsexsix]

I know Toronto Public Library has a few copies

 

[Howard Hughes]

MY POINT IS......

Thanks for chiming in Howard. I'll search on your posts on the topic. But over all, I just don't get your point. I'll chalk it up to one of those jazz moments...

Hello Fletch/All,
My point is, that due to the single dimension of television, one can only see the perspective of the programme makers.

I know that hundreds of hours of footage were shot for this show, and the 24 minutes that were shown were probably the most, if not only, negative aspects filmed.

For example, Joanne was shown singing to a handful of senior citizens in an old people's home, why didn't they show her singing to an x-thousand audience at the Glenn Miller/Big Band Music Festival ?
To show what she does in a positive light ? I think not !

The ladies were also asked not to answer the interviewers quetions with there own words, but to turn the question into their answer. In other words they were spoon fed what they wanted the ladies to say.

The list goes on...............

I have read all of the posts in this thread and think that The Loungers have realised that these ladies were "used" by the producers to meet their own criteria.

'nough said.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Toodleoo
HH

 

[ThesFlishThngs]

Though it probably isn't necessary, I'll second what HH said. Not even having seen the programme in question, but only Brit. magazine articles on it, and followed this discussion, I still have no doubt about skewing and manipulation by the creators.
You can never take everything (anything, perhaps) offered by television at face value. I had my own experience of HGTV coming to film me at my art, and after the crew completely rearranged my studio, redecorated to the tune of taking away anything made by someone other than me, as well as anything considered offensive (there went the little glass crosses in the window), 'suggested' how to answer their inane questions, and basically tried to turn me into a trained, smiling monkey, I know now that anything I see is less 'reality' and more the invention of someone else.

 

[C-dot]

The whole point is that television producers are going to manipulate the program to come off how they want it to come off. We can all see that now, so we can enjoy the good aspects of the program.

Like that kitchen....

 

[ThesFlishThngs]

And the manipulation is a shame, really. Those in charge seem to think it's necessary in order to enhance the drama, thus the watchability, but how refreshing it would be to see a straight-up, non-agendized documentary. Wishful thinking, I know.
I also know to give the benefit of the doubt to any 'regular' person I seen on the screen.

 

[LizzieMaine]

That's the whole problem, really -- "infotainment" television is more about entertaining than informing. What they generally do is work out exactly how they want the show to go, so everything is nice and predictable, and then they look for people who will produce the desired outcome. It's all as rigged as the quiz shows were in 1959.

When i did "History Detectives" a few years ago, I didn't give the answers I gave the way they wanted me to give them --- basically, they wanted to set me up in a staged conflict with the presenter, and I refused to do it. "I never argue on mike with someone who controls the right of final edit," I told them, and I think that's a very good thing for anyone who goes on one of these shows to remember. If they want to make you look bad, the only one who can prevent it is you.

 

[Inky]

That's the whole problem, really -- "infotainment" television is more about entertaining than informing. What they generally do is work out exactly how they want the show to go, so everything is nice and predictable, and then they look for people who will produce the desired outcome. It's all as rigged as the quiz shows were in 1959.

When i did "History Detectives" a few years ago, I didn't give the answers I gave the way they wanted me to give them --- basically, they wanted to set me up in a staged conflict with the presenter, and I refused to do it. "I never argue on mike with someone who controls the right of final edit," I told them, and I think that's a very good thing for anyone who goes on one of these shows to remember. If they want to make you look bad, the only one who can prevent it is you.

Well put, Lizzie. If TV reality programs showed exactly what reality was like, we'd be bored silly. The want to create issues/problems/conflict/wierdness so that people will watch.

and totally fftopic:

You were on History Detectives? I love that show - what episode, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Well put, Lizzie. If TV reality programs showed exactly what reality was like, we'd be bored silly. The want to create issues/problems/conflict/wierdness so that people will watch.

and totally fftopic:

You were on History Detectives? I love that show - what episode, if you don't mind my asking?

This one. They only ended up using a small part of what I gave them, but I did get a really good lunch out of the deal. And the presenter, to his credit, didn't want to go along with any phony conflict, either.

 

[Inky]

This one. They only ended up using a small part of what I gave them, but I did get a really good lunch out of the deal. And the presenter, to his credit, didn't want to go along with any phony conflict, either.

I'd love to see that one! Tukufu Zuberi is my particular favorite "detective." I recently hooked my hubby into watching HD because they've had a some good WWII stories in the last few episodes.

And a good lunch is always a nice deal

 

[C-dot]

fftopic: That is really cool, Lizzie! I used to enjoy that show when I still received the channel.

 

[evelyns-niece]

interesting

Interesting discussion. I wish I could see the show -- just for the clothes/decor/makeup aspect

 

[Emer]

I never even thought about how the producers may be skewing the whole topic, but then again I've only seen qucik little clips. Maybe if I saw the enitre show it's be more clear. I'm sad that they did this, because a true show like that would have been very neat to watch--especially as there are so many of us out there who aspire to this way of life, or even just dream of being able to do things in a more old fashioned manor.

fftopic: I was approached to do a modeling spot for a dating webiste recently. I was shocked, especially since the casting agents knew I was married. When I brought it up they said, "We just want pretty girls for the site to get people to join." I wanted to slap them. :rage:

 

[Tamamiko]

I had to ask...

Thinking about this, my partner and I do 15th century re-enactment and about 3 years ago there was a researcher from 'Wife Swap' going around asking for re-enacting couples who were interested in doing a programme. She seemed very shocked when it was explained to her that we all hold down regular jobs and enjoy indoor plumbing! They seemed to be completely under the impression that we were all crackpots who had transformed our suburban semis into thatched hovels and called each other 'my lord'.

Not that I am advocating this sort of behaviour in any way but I think that perhaps the misrepresentation occurred because television wants to instil a reaction in the audience, be it one of interest, shock or revulsion and so 'freak show' television is created, whether it be showing 'normal' people living the lives of a family of medieval crackpots or whether it is craftily editing a piece of filming so that it shows people apparently shunning modern culture and isolating themselves from the world in a 1950s bubble. A documentary about a perfectly nice and sensible, rather glamourous lady who held down three jobs whilst launching a singing career and embracing a vintage lifestyle wouldn't have got the viewing figures or interest that the documentary about people who apparently totally shun modern society got. However, just because I think that I can see a reason why the tv company put that slant on it doesn't mean I approve!

I'm about to leave work for the day and had to tack onto this (off topic) but SCA? and if so, what kingdom?

 

[Missy Hellfire]

fftopic:

Hi Tamamiko, sorry about the late reply, I only just re-stumbled across this thread!

No, we don't re-enact SCA we are members of the Wars of the Roses Federeation who re-enact life from the period of the Wars of the Roses (York v Lancaster) which was from around 1455 - 1485 approximately. It's great as a lot of the major battlefields like Bosworth and Tewkesbury invite us to re-enact the battles on the actual battlefields every year and it's great fun! Are you in the SCA yourself?

Back on topic slightly, I caught the repeat of the Time Warp Wives programme the other day and I was once again niggled by the way that it protrayed the ladies as deluded crackpots. And they say that the camera never lies. This may be the case, but editors it seems certainly do!

 

[LollyWillowes]

Typical.

The media do this all the time, things are edited to look the way the makers want them to look. It's standard. My husband teaches English and he's always telling the kids this.
My friend and her family were recently done over by their local TV news station, there was a community meeting to try and keep their local primary school open and they were asked if they would be interviewed. So they said yes as they thought it would help their task. But they were made out to look like a bunch of uneducated idiots, lots that they said had been omitted and other things had been sliced and put together in a way that wasn't what they actually said. She phoned me in tears, she was so embarrassed. Made a complaint but heard nothing back.

 

[Lenore]

fftopic:

*sigh* I miss the SCA...

much rather spend my money on girdles than court garb. They get more use.