This generation of kids...

[LizzieMaine]

Reading your previous post a little more, Lizzie: A healthy dose of optimism and a reality check is what people today need more than ever.
How to get/give it to them is the ultimate question though.

Well, I think for starters, it's a good idea to teach kids to understand that when they fail at something the world isn't going to come to an end -- and that it isn't something that can be corrected by blaming the other kid, the teacher, the coach, the school board or The Man. They should understand that a big part of life is simply random factors beyond anyone's control -- and that sometimes, no matter how hard we try, and how much we want something, sometimes we just aren't going to get it. Them's the breaks, kid.

I'm not saying a kid shouldn't be taught to have aspirations -- but they should be *realistic* aspirations. I had a cousin who dreamed all his life of playing in the NBA. He had coaches and friends who encouraged this, and he spent his entire scholastic career focusing on basketball. But you know, the odds against playing in the NBA are pretty slim for someone who's five-foot-five with rickety knees, and nothing he could ever do, no matter how hard he tried and no matter how optimistic he was, would ever change that. Needless to say, his dream did not come true.

Goals are fine, and goals are important. As long as they're *realistic* goals.

Or, as a wise tiger once said...

 

[scottyrocks]

The biggest bestest attitude is everywhere. Lately Ive seen ads on TV for a new show that involves grabbing a 'mob' of people and creating a dance somewhat akin to the Michael Jackson Thriller-style. The first show is centered around a guy who wants to propose to his wife using this huge extravaganza. Biggest, bestest. Talk about setting the bar higher than previously thought, and then presenting it to a mass audience. How many guyss do you think will watch this and think that the simple proposal they had planned is no longer in any way adequate and how can I do it better? Ridiculous.

 

[rue]

I happened to walk by the TV when that was on last night and sat there in horror. Awful awful awful..... shakeshead

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Wowza, a 3 day weekend! What the heck! Here in NZ its a 2 day weekend. We dont celebrate thanksgiving here in NZ but Id have to agree that a week off for it is just rediculous! Im not sure how your school system works in America. We have 4 terms per year. Each term is ten weeks then the kids get 2 weeks holiday between each term. I think this system is quite good

If you ask me, I think we have too many holidays. Yesterday I went to the courthouse to file some probate papers and completely forgot that it was closed for Caesar Chavez Day (a state holiday in California). And I don't intend to go back today because the day after a holiday the lines are going to be twice as long.

 

[sheeplady]

If you're content to shoot for average Joe status, you'll end up less. I always shoot for more than I'm willing to settle for. Life is like a bargaining table.

Well, I have personally decided not to aim for the best (read: most prestigious highest paying) type of job in my field. The things I enjoy about my profession are not what are valued in the most prestigious jobs. I know I will most likely disappoint a lot of people I have worked with, who have decided that I can "do better" than where I will most likely end up. I could make 2-3x the money working the more prestigious job.

Life is about tradeoffs. You honestly can't have it all without making a few compromises. I like to have free time to sew, to crochet, to spin, even to strip lead paint. I want to have a family and see my kids on a regular basis. I could chase that prestigious job and let these other dreams go, but that won't make me happy. Money is nice when it lets you do the things you want to do; having money but being unable to do the things you want is my idea of torture.

 

[shazzabanazza]

If you ask me, I think we have too many holidays. Yesterday I went to the courthouse to file some probate papers and completely forgot that it was closed for Caesar Chavez Day (a state holiday in California). And I don't intend to go back today because the day after a holiday the lines are going to be twice as long.

Your absolutely right, the lines will be TWICE as long!

 

[AmateisGal]

Well, I have personally decided not to aim for the best (read: most prestigious highest paying) type of job in my field. The things I enjoy about my profession are not what are valued in the most prestigious jobs. I know I will most likely disappoint a lot of people I have worked with, who have decided that I can "do better" than where I will most likely end up. I could make 2-3x the money working the more prestigious job.

Life is about tradeoffs. You honestly can't have it all without making a few compromises. I like to have free time to sew, to crochet, to spin, even to strip lead paint. I want to have a family and see my kids on a regular basis. I could chase that prestigious job and let these other dreams go, but that won't make me happy. Money is nice when it lets you do the things you want to do; having money but being unable to do the things you want is my idea of torture.

Good for you! I think you've got the right attitude.

 

[Derek WC]

Pompidou - If you set the bar too high, it's liable to fall off.

Lizzie - I agree wholeheartedly. Far too many a parent today say "Little Billy, you can be whatever you want when you grow up: You can be an astronaut, or a doctor, or even the president." attempting to give their child(ren) some sort of false hope that without even trying they can just snap their fingers and instantly be sitting on a mountainous pile of prosperity. They do not want to 'break their childs spirit', and thus they give them a ridiculous mind frame that they can do and be whatever they want.

I know why generation X is the way it is, the problem is how to solve it.

I also agree with what we should teach them, but how to broadcast it is the log in the whole concepts eye.

 

[Yeps]

I think of it like this: Let's say you and I are each holding a line taut, like a clothes line. Hang a weight over the middle of it. No matter how hard we pull, the line will never be straight. If we want to get that weight to a certain height, say, over 5 feet, that means we've got to strive, raising our hands, to about 5.5 feet. If you're content to shoot for average Joe status, you'll end up less.

I like this analogy. I agree with you in this too. It is important to strive to be the best, but also to know that you probably won't be. If you go for extraordinary, and really work at it, you are pretty much guaranteed to at least make it to acceptable.

 

[Pompidou]

Pompidou - If you set the bar too high, it's liable to fall off.

Lizzie - I agree wholeheartedly. Far too many a parent today say "Little Billy, you can be whatever you want when you grow up: You can be an astronaut, or a doctor, or even the president." attempting to give their child(ren) some sort of false hope that without even trying they can just snap their fingers and instantly be sitting on a mountainous pile of prosperity. They do not want to 'break their childs spirit', and thus they give them a ridiculous mind frame that they can do and be whatever they want.

I know why generation X is the way it is, the problem is how to solve it.

I also agree with what we should teach them, but how to broadcast it is the log in the whole concepts eye.

While the realist in me says you're right - not every kid can be an astronaut when s/he grows up, this is one scenario where honesty isn't the best policy. I'm not sure the problem is saying, "You can be anything when you grow up," as much as it is, not following it up with something like, "but you'll either have to be rich or talented, and we're not rich, so start studying."

 

[Yeps]

I'm not sure the problem is saying, "You can be anything when you grow up," as much as it is, not following it up with something like, "but you'll either have to be rich or talented, and we're not rich, so start studying."

The more you talk on this topic the more I agree with you. Oh, and talent is worthless after a while. As I am preparing for a career in music, I have seen much more talented people than myself fizzle out due to lack of hard work. The work will always win in the end.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Hard work is always the key, as well as dedication. You have to have the ambition to do what you're setting out to and not lose steam part way through or you will, as you said fizzle out.

 

[Tiller]

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common then unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination are omnipotent. The slogan "Press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." Calvin Coolidge written in retirement in connection with his membership on the board of directors of the New York Life Insurance Company.

It's not like these ideas are new.

 

[Pompidou]

It's not like these ideas are new.

The problem with old ideas is that it's assumed that we've already plateaued off of their usefulness. For example, hard work is a given, and everybody assumes they're working hard enough. When people ask themselves why they're not ahead yet, or rather, what to do about it, "just work harder" doesn't cut it. We need action plans. "Work harder." "Work longer." "Keep trying." These no longer cut it. These are the days where success is laid out in a Powerpoint presentation with bullet points and flow charts. Hard work is important. Talent is important. Connections are important. What's most important these days is a very focused plan. That's what people expect when asking how to get desired results. "Keep trying," is pretty much a nonanswer, for all practical purposes, after all.

 

[John in Covina]

Work Harder is one thing- Work Smarter is a whole other deal.

 

[sheeplady]

While the realist in me says you're right - not every kid can be an astronaut when s/he grows up, this is one scenario where honesty isn't the best policy. I'm not sure the problem is saying, "You can be anything when you grow up," as much as it is, not following it up with something like, "but you'll either have to be rich or talented, and we're not rich, so start studying."

I like this, to be honest. It is what my mother told me when I was young, but I was also raised that being a hard worker was better than being smart or born with a silver spoon.

There is an idea that really wealthly people have three generations: the first builds it, the second maintains it, the third spends it. The idea is the first generation has worked really hard, and their kids know it- because they saw their parents' sweat and work and may not have had the advantages of the money when they were young. By the time the wealth reaches the grandchildren, it has always been there and they have no comprehension of the work and luck it took to get there, so they tend to spend it up until it is gone, and they don't have the skills or constitution to maintain or rebuild the wealth. I'm not sure it is entirely true, but I have seen examples of it.

I think the worst thing I could have is a lazy child that doesn't recognize their potential and the value of work or their responsibilities. (Other than raising a serial killer or an abusive twit or something similar.)

 

[LizzieMaine]

The danger, though -- and I'm saying this as someone who's breathed the Protestant Work Ethic in its purest form her entire life -- is that eventually you get to a generation who assumes "Huh, those people aren't rich. *It's their own fault for not working hard enough.*" Which is the biggest, most vicious lie there is. The graveyards are full of people who worked themselves into the ground and never got much of anything in the way of material wealth to show for it, because the work they did and the lives they led weren't in fields that the culture considers worthy of wealth. Unless your ultimate goal above all else is "making money" for the sake of making money, and unless all your efforts are directed in that direction, you won't make much, no matter how hard you work.

So, for me, the point is this: if you're teaching your kid "work hard and you'll get rich," you're a liar, and you deserve every bit of grief your kid gives you when they figure it out. Teach your kid "work hard and you *might* get rich, depending on what kind of work you're doing," and you're still on thin ice -- because you're teaching them that wealth is the only valid goal to shoot for. Teach them "Work hard *because it's the right thing to do,*" and you're on the right track.

 

[JimWagner]

Unfortunately, for most people the definition of success is "made a lot of money" and they can't even conceive of anything else. For them there will never be enough money as long as there's more to be made and therefore no real possibility of success since they'll never have it all. Success in those terms is always something you work for but never attain. Sad, really.

 

[Tiller]

The problem with old ideas is that it's assumed that we've already plateaued off of their usefulness. For example, hard work is a given, and everybody assumes they're working hard enough. When people ask themselves why they're not ahead yet, or rather, what to do about it, "just work harder" doesn't cut it. We need action plans. "Work harder." "Work longer." "Keep trying." These no longer cut it. These are the days where success is laid out in a Powerpoint presentation with bullet points and flow charts. Hard work is important. Talent is important. Connections are important. What's most important these days is a very focused plan. That's what people expect when asking how to get desired results. "Keep trying," is pretty much a nonanswer, for all practical purposes, after all.

The way old ideas, become old ideas is because they last. New ideas that prove to have little value simply die off. They prove their worth with every succeeding generation, and become a stable of a culture's moral ideal. They become a part of the "permanent things" in life. They don't die out, they outlast all pretenders to the thrown. Why? Because they have their root inside a universal truth. The ancient idea that man is not an angel, has not changed because it's still true. So is the idea that the poor will always be with us. The idea that persistence is the most important trait in life is also true.


Quite honestly I think your horribly wrong. My Grandfather died one of the wealthiest men that this area has ever seen, and although he always said that connections do make the world go round, "keep trying" is what works in the end. All the connections in the world aren't going to mean a hill of beans, if you rest upon your laurels.

Persistence is the one character trait that is absolutely necessary for success, in anything that you do. Keep trying means even when you've failed 150 times you still bother to try the 151st. Does talents matter? Sure, but all the talent in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you don't know how to use it. Is planning important? Sure it is, but all the planning in the world doesn't mean a thing if you surrender the first time your plan fails, which inevitably it will somewhere down the line, because life has a tendency to be badly constructed that way.

You can think you have your life planned to a T, with twenty different strategies for forty different possible outcomes, but it doesn't mean a thing if you don't keep trying.

You can have all the connections in the world, but it doesn't matter if you don't know how to work personable with them.

You can have all the talent in the world, and it doesn't amount to a thing if you don't know how to react when your skills fail you.

You can have all the letters behind your name you want from all the "right school", but it doesn't guarantee you the position you want.

What separates the people who reach their goals, and those who don't are people who are persistent enough to go for it. They sacrifice a bit more then most would. They may decide to leave everything they have behind them to reach their goal. They may do things that many people simply will not.

My Mother works at a center who's main job is to work with, and advocate for the disabled. They work with both the physically or mentally disabled. One individual she has dealt with is a local business owner who is paralyzed from the waist down. He was in car accident. Obviously he no longer could work at the mill he was in, his wife ended up leaving him, and he only saw his grown children a few days a month if he was lucky. Now at first he became depressed and traumatized, quite understandable under the circumstance. Instead of simply living of a disability check for the rest of his life though, he chose to use the saving he did have, and set up a store. Why? Because for him the worst thing in the world, was this idea of being helpless. So he received therapy, got the emotional help he needed, and moved forward with his life. He didn't cry in his beer, he kept moving forward. It wasn't easy, but today he is one of the pillars of the community.

The major difference between a successful individual and a failure, is that a successful individual will work to get back up no matter how hard life hits them in the face and knocks them down. They look for help when they need it, and they keep moving forward. The failures that I know in this world follow the same general line of reasoning. "Life's not fair." "I can't get ahead because the system is against me." "I wasn't born rich, so I can't succeed." Or any number of other excuses.

Your general idea that "keep going" is a non answer is laughable. Sorry if that seems a bit harsh but it's true. Life is always hard. Nothing comes easy, and all the planning in the world isn't going to change that. Life will knock you down, their will be times when you feel weak and alone, because you are weak and alone. The only thing that will matter is if you decide to stand back up and move forward, or if you stay down on the ground and feel sorry for yourself.

Unfortunately, for most people the definition of success is "made a lot of money" and they can't even conceive of anything else. For them there will never be enough money as long as there's more to be made and therefore no real possibility of success since they'll never have it all. Success in those terms is always something you work for but never attain. Sad, really.

Without a doubt, that is true. I would say it's a simple fact of life though that the only way you are going to reach whatever your goal is by continuing to try even when you fail to reach it the first time. Maybe your idea of success is a strong family, and being a good Father. So you end up getting married and having kids, but then your marriage for whatever reason fails. Now you could be like some men, and check out spend the rest of your life trying to be a swinging bachelor and forget about your children (besides those checks you have to write of course). Or you could attempt to reach a compromise with your former wife, and work had to still have a positive influence in your children life. Which imo means you are simply manning up, and not acting like a man child.

It's all about how willing you are to fight for what you want though.

The danger, though -- and I'm saying this as someone who's breathed the Protestant Work Ethic in its purest form her entire life -- is that eventually you get to a generation who assumes "Huh, those people aren't rich. *It's their own fault for not working hard enough.*" Which is the biggest, most vicious lie there is.

Although my Grandfather was wealthy, he choose not to pass the wealth onto his children, because he believed unearned wealth was a very negative thing. He helped his children become stable in their life, but that was about it. I am not a wealthy individual, and I personally don't look down on anyone who is honestly trying to move forward with their life.

In my opinion a failure is someone who has given up, and is now doing nothing with their life. I think it's safe to say that we all know of somebody who had basically given up on their life, and have made a choice to do nothing, since they can't be exactly what they wanted to be. My generation as a whole get's stereotyped into being selfish, and wanting to automatically be the person on top without making the effort. It's unfair to those of us who are working hard. With that said though, I do know people who I graduated with in 04 who still live with their parents, they don't have a job, and their greatest accomplishment in life so far is the number of games they have "conquered" on their X-Box 360. In my opinion such an individual is failing in life, and not living up to his potential, and all the sophistry about "their choice how to live their life" doesn't change that fact.

The guy digging holes and trying to pay for food to put on his family's dinner table has another title connected to him as far as I'm concerned, and that's a hero. Any man or woman who works somewhere he doesn't like in order to provide for his/her family is someone to be admired.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Unfortunately, for most people the definition of success is "made a lot of money" and they can't even conceive of anything else. For them there will never be enough money as long as there's more to be made and therefore no real possibility of success since they'll never have it all. Success in those terms is always something you work for but never attain. Sad, really.

Exactly. In the end, it's a question of values, not a question of "value." If I had a kid who came to me and said "Ma, I think I want to do something worthwhile in this town -- we need a good electrician here, I'm going to become one," I'd wish him all the success in the world. If I had a kid who came to me and said, "Ma, I think I want to spend my life maximizing return to the stockholders," I'd disown him.