This generation of kids...

[jamespowers]

I have a B.A. in Political Science. There were about 8 profs in the department teaching full time.

The only red was, "Ed The Red Webking" who proudly pointed out that he was asked by Nixon to leave the USA because he was counseling his students to dodge the draft. Otherwise, some of those profs have become friends while I worked on various conservative political campaigns. In theory, a professor isn't supposed to drag his political views into the gradebook, but I am certain the reason I got low marks in Ed the Red's class is that I was willing to be a giant redneck and argue with his statements about religion, politics and popular culture. In that class it was Reagan (me) arguing with Abbie Hoffman (Ed).

I had the same thing with a history professor. The Bill of Rights was contentious to say the least.

 

[jamespowers]

lol That's because there are some people who think if someone teaches evolution they're a socialist... (Seriously, I knew an evolution prof with a picture of him and Regan in his office who had a student accuse him to his face of him being a communist- because he taught evolution. Prof was a conservative and felt the republican party was too liberal, if you asked him.)

I think a high proportion of people who think that all academics are Marxists have never read the Communist Manifesto. And it's plain sad to have such an uneducated society that one of the books that is so referenced is so poorly read.

A Marxist and a communist are not neccessarily the same thing. I think Karl would argue with you there. Some people think one grew out of the other but it was not a natural progression.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The ultimate example of where intellectual onanism in academia can lead -- The Social Text Affair. A professor by the name of Alan Sokol, fed up with the intentionally-impenetrable essays and articles coming out of the humanities prepared an article arguing that gravity is a social construct, and got it published in a prominent academic journal -- despite the fact that the entire article was deliberate nonsense garbed in academic style.

 

[jamespowers]

The ultimate example of where intellectual onanism in academia can lead -- The Social Text Affair. A professor by the name of Alan Sokol, fed up with the intentionally-impenetrable essays and articles coming out of the humanities prepared an article arguing that gravity is a social construct, and got it published in a prominent academic journal -- despite the fact that the entire article was deliberate nonsense garbed in academic style.

It just goes to show that if you preface gobbledygook with fancy words and phrases so technical that it makes them incomprehensible then you can fool people. Politicians do it all the time.

 

[Edward]

lol That's because there are some people who think if someone teaches evolution they're a socialist... (Seriously, I knew an evolution prof with a picture of him and Regan in his office who had a student accuse him to his face of him being a communist- because he taught evolution. Prof was a conservative and felt the republican party was too liberal, if you asked him.)

I think a high proportion of people who think that all academics are Marxists have never read the Communist Manifesto. And it's plain sad to have such an uneducated society that one of the books that is so referenced is so poorly read.

A high proportion of those who go around pointing the finger and screaming "Marxist" have no concept whatever of what Marxism actually entails - like Communist, Fascist, Muslim, whatever, it's simply a bogeyman word with which they've been programmed.

 

[vitanola]

A high proportion of those who go around pointing the finger and screaming "Marxist" have no concept whatever of what Marxism actually entails - like Communist, Fascist, Muslim, whatever, it's simply a bogeyman word with which they've been programmed.

I've noticed quite a bit of this lately.

Ignoramus et ignoramibus[\I] describes the general attitude these days, I suppose.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's quite possible to agree with certain tenets of Marxism -- such as its ideas on the structure of economic classes, which make a lot of sense -- without being a dedicated Marxist, or even a bomb-throwing Bolshevik. (And there's a good boogieman word we just don't hear anymore.)

Most actual American Marxists today are so wound up in theoretical mumbo-jumbo and sectarian doubletalk that nobody should fear them or have even the slightest reason to take them seriously as "revolutionaries." Their revolutions are fought entirely over coffee and scones, and over the last forty-odd years those of the academic variety have done more to discredit the Left as a force for actual social change than any Cold Warrior could have ever possibly done. And the same goes for Postmodernists.

These guys weren't Marxists.

 

[John in Covina]

I have a B.A. in Political Science. There were about 8 profs in the department teaching full time.

The only red was, "Ed The Red Webking" who proudly pointed out that he was asked by Nixon to leave the USA because he was counseling his students to dodge the draft. Otherwise, some of those profs have become friends while I worked on various conservative political campaigns. In theory, a professor isn't supposed to drag his political views into the gradebook, but I am certain the reason I got low marks in Ed the Red's class is that I was willing to be a giant redneck and argue with his statements about religion, politics and popular culture. In that class it was Reagan (me) arguing with Abbie Hoffman (Ed).

So Canada IS different than the US!

 

[John in Covina]

A high proportion of those who go around pointing the finger and screaming "Marxist" have no concept whatever of what Marxism actually entails - like Communist, Fascist, Muslim, whatever, it's simply a bogeyman word with which they've been programmed.

Dismissive and elitist.

 

[sheeplady]

A Marxist and a communist are not neccessarily the same thing. I think Karl would argue with you there. Some people think one grew out of the other but it was not a natural progression.

Then point pout where I equated communism and Marxism- I said a good deal of people who call people Marxists have never read Marx's major work.

The ultimate example of where intellectual onanism in academia can lead -- The Social Text Affair. A professor by the name of Alan Sokol, fed up with the intentionally-impenetrable essays and articles coming out of the humanities prepared an article arguing that gravity is a social construct, and got it published in a prominent academic journal -- despite the fact that the entire article was deliberate nonsense garbed in academic style.

I think it's totally amusing that his hoax of how bad academia is was published in a non-peer review journal. You can't even put non-peer review journals on your resume in my field, those are considered "pay to play" and not publications.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The embarrassment of the incident caused them to become peer-reviewed, which is akin to putting a lock on the henhouse after the chickens have been stolen. The editors rationalized their approach by arguing that conventional peer review "silenced" new and important voices, and that they hoped to rectify this by publishing articles such as Sokol's.

Meanwhile, more fun with PoMo.

 

[Flicka]

It's quite possible to agree with certain tenets of Marxism -- such as its ideas on the structure of economic classes, which make a lot of sense -- without being a dedicated Marxist, or even a bomb-throwing Bolshevik. (And there's a good boogieman word we just don't hear anymore.)

Historical materialism in the sense of looking for the causes of developments and changes in human society in the means by which humans collectively produce the necessities of life is essentially a Marxist view, yet you can find that sort of materialistic approach in people in all parts of the political spectrum. So in that sense you can definitely agree with certain tenets of Marxism without being a dedicated Marxist or even the slightest left-leaning.

 

[sheeplady]

The embarrassment of the incident caused them to become peer-reviewed, which is akin to putting a lock on the henhouse after the chickens have been stolen.

Meanwhile, more fun with PoMo.

What a lot of people don't understand is that there are a lot of journals out there that still aren't peer reviewed. Even among the ones that are there is a huge difference in quality and reputation. Just because it is in print doesn't mean that it's good; just like any other publication. Most people who are familiar with academia understand that there is a strategy to get something published, and something can be published someplace, given the time and money. And the fact that the editors published the article without revisions is rare- and speaks to their own ineptitude. With most journals if you don't do the edits exactly as they want it is an automatic reject. Which is why the publication cycle at a good journal takes 2-4 years from time of submission until time to print.

The points that they bring up about peer review squashing scientific thought shouldn't happen if everyone was a good scientist. However, what we saw happening in the climate change field a few years ago is an example of the evils of peer review at it's extremes and how it can squash alternative view points that are good science. (All those people involved in that should have lost their jobs- everyone.)

 

[LizzieMaine]

Of course, there's also the ludicrousness of a postmodern lit-crit journal thinking it's their place to publish anything to do with science to begin with. That was part of Sokol's motivation in pulling off the hoax -- he wasn't out to prove academia in general was full of fruitcakes, he was targeting a certain subset of pomo beard-strokers, who couldn't have been more obliging. Sokol went on to write a book called "Fashionable Nonsense: Postmodern Intellectuals' Abuse of Science," discussing the incident and its repercussions, and arguing at some length that the Emperors of those particular classrooms are buck naked.

 

[sheeplady]

Of course, there's also the ludicrousness of a postmodern lit-crit journal thinking it's their place to publish anything to do with science to begin with. That was part of Sokol's motivation in pulling off the hoax -- he wasn't out to prove academia in general was full of fruitcakes, he was targeting a certain subset of pomo beard-strokers, who couldn't have been more obliging. Sokol went on to write a book called "Fashionable Nonsense: Postmodern Intellectuals' Abuse of Science," discussing the incident and its repercussions, and arguing at some length that the Emperors of those particular classrooms are buck naked.

Having studied post modernism extensively I do think they have some good points. So much of the meaning we give to things is cultural and culture specific. A tree isn't just a tree to everyone in the same sense that it is to a woodworker, a farmer, a woodsmen, or a suburbanite; yet alone across various cultures. And there is innate value in understanding meaning from other's points of view, rather than just assuming that everyone thinks like everyone else. But then of course you get into the structuralists and the post-structuralists and throw in some Habermas, and you've got a good discussion going on what reality is.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Poor kids.....:behindsofa:

 

[LizzieMaine]

Meh. If you ever find yourself questioning the nature of reality, try this experiment. Sit down at the table, clear your mind, compose yourself, and then hit your thumb as hard as you possibly can with a 24-ounce ball peen hammer. No matter where you come from, no matter who you are, no matter what your worldview, it's gonna hurt like hell. *That* is reality. Everything else is stuff we make up to pretend it isn't.

 

[vitanola]

Dismissive and elitist.

Of course, for one man's ignorance (willful or not) is fully the equivilent of another's knowledge, isn't it?

 

[sheeplady]

Meh. If you ever find yourself questioning the nature of reality, try this experiment. Sit down at the table, clear your mind, compose yourself, and then hit your thumb as hard as you possibly can with a 24-ounce ball peen hammer. No matter where you come from, no matter who you are, no matter what your worldview, it's gonna hurt like hell. *That* is reality. Everything else is stuff we make up to pretend it isn't.

That's exactly what a post-modernist would say! lol

 

[LizzieMaine]

And I didn't have to pay twenty grand a year to learn it, either.