The weight issue

[rocketeer]

Has anyone thought about this before advising forum members to weigh their jackets regarding the horse/steer controversy?
What would the difference in weight of the same item such as Aero's Highwayman be in size 36 be compared to a 48? The jacket owner would need to compare the same jacket in the same size and those who say 'compared to mine',do you have the same size in both hides?
Just something to think on unless the difference is minimal and all the dimensions for each size jacket are the same.
Long arms? An inch extra on the body length. Oh yes and can I have that extra thick blanket lining please.
John.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

You'd have to know exactly what weight hide you think the jacket's made of and compare to the same size in the same hide. I would imagine differences in arm length would make little difference (using weight to give hints to hide, the numbers will obviously be all over the place, within a range, obviously). Then Aero are the ones to tell you if the weight sounds sketchy.

I think a lot of the compare and contrast that's been going on has been counterproductive.

bk

 

[wdw]

John, you may have seen my comment on the current thread (forget which) about weights. I did that in the knowledge of the straw poll on the main steer thread where, based on a number of actual weights offered, it looked like 2.5kg/5.5lbs was a reasonable benchmark for a 40/42" short FQHH HB/HWM.

From further feedback, I stand by that as as good an indication as you'll get short of a detailed examination by experts. The various jackets I bet on being steer due to weight all turned out to be so.

You're absolutely right that it's not like-for-like to compare a 36 and a 48, but we can all take an educated guess.

 

[Fletch]

My instinct is to say equine is a denser hide and bovine is more spongy. But that could have to do with tanning or other treatments.

I suspect scotrace was close to the reality of things a few years back when he said most leathers could probably be treated, processed, and/or manipulated to resemble other leathers.

It would only be a matter of cost, and given the similarities already noted, it wouldn't be too costly to make bovine resemble equine.

BTW, the front quarter of a steer, sans hide, is yummy.

 

[rocketeer]

I think a lot of the compare and contrast that's been going on has been counterproductive.

bk

This is really why I made this post. More as a comment than to start more controversy.
Guess I'm lucky as I don't have a problem with this, that is to say I have not bought a jacket recently.

John, you may have seen my comment on the current thread (forget which) about weights. I did that in the knowledge of the straw poll on the main steer thread where, based on a number of actual weights offered, it looked like 2.5kg/5.5lbs was a reasonable benchmark for a 40/42" short FQHH HB/HWM.

From further feedback, I stand by that as as good an indication as you'll get short of a detailed examination by experts. The various jackets I bet on being steer due to weight all turned out to be so.

You're absolutely right that it's not like-for-like to compare a 36 and a 48, but we can all take an educated guess.

I was going to put a jokey post(as it is Christmas) about DNA testing to find out what is what, I guess Gary Eastman beat me to it

My instinct is to say equine is a denser hide and bovine is more spongy. But that could have to do with tanning or other treatments.

I suspect scotrace was close to the reality of things a few years back when he said most leathers could probably be treated, processed, and/or manipulated to resemble other leathers.

It would only be a matter of cost, and given the similarities already noted, it wouldn't be too costly to make bovine resemble equine.

BTW, the front quarter of a steer, sans hide, is yummy.

Hmmmm! Tasty Though I have seen a few Secondhand Aero's advertised on the 'Bay' as Front Quarter Steerhide.

 

[wdw]

Hi again John. I guess it's close to my heart in that I have a direct interest in this.

I took an iffy HWM down to Aero to be checked out and Ken and 2 or 3 of his team had to have a real close look and feel to confirm it was a hybrid, but the main way they wanted to confirm it was by weight. When I went home, I was then able to compare 2 FQHHs and a Steer to give me an idea of what the differences were.

If weight is the simplest way for the manufacturers to have confidence in what the hide is, then that'll do for me.

 

[majormajor]

"This used to be the best jacket I EVER had. SO many compliments!! I loved it!! But then I weighed it.....Load of crap. Sending it back!!"

 

[HoosierDaddy]

"This used to be the best jacket I EVER had. SO many compliments!! I loved it!! But then I weighed it.....Load of crap. Sending it back!!"

This is kinda the way I feel about it. I understand how someone could/maybe should feel ripped off. They didn't get what they ordered. Didn't really know it...but now they do. However..I wouldn't send the Aero jackets in my possession back now..no matter what hide they really are. Mainly because..to me the hide on them has the unique Aero charactor and broken-in marbled grain goodness. Some grainier than others...and some even thicker. However..I couldn't want for any 'better'. Fortunately they look just like I want them to! Pretty sure they're HH...but there is one..that the longer I look at it and study it..it might be a half brother. lol

 

[malligator]

I'd only had my jacket a week when I found out it was steer. It's not so much that I dislike the steer, it's the simple fact that I paid for HH and, not being a jacket collector or connoisseur, I don't even know what HH feels like so I don't know if I'd like it better. I've been told I won't, but I would at least like to have the choice. It's gnawing at me. I'm trying to like this jacket again, but honestly, my pride of ownership is gone. It's a nice jacket, but it's no longer my dream jacket and the premium I paid for it is definitely a thorn in my side.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

That is, of course, the only issue here. Not the relative merits of steer, goat or horse, or that someone should have been able to tell when they received their jackets whether or not they had the hide they wanted (this is unrealistic, some might say impossible).

The issue is that people have been ripped off. They paid more (so far as I understand the pricing) for horse and didn't get horse. It's just wrong, whichever way you cut it. Kudos to Aero for trying to sort it out.

 

[JLStorm]

I'd only had my jacket a week when I found out it was steer. It's not so much that I dislike the steer, it's the simple fact that I paid for HH and, not being a jacket collector or connoisseur, I don't even know what HH feels like so I don't know if I'd like it better. I've been told I won't, but I would at least like to have the choice. It's gnawing at me. I'm trying to like this jacket again, but honestly, my pride of ownership is gone. It's a nice jacket, but it's no longer my dream jacket and the premium I paid for it is definitely a thorn in my side.

This might help you decide.
Would you prefer A) A thicker heavier weight jacket stiff enough to stand up on its own, or B) a thinner lighter weight jacket stiff enough to stand up on its own?

I'm a huge fan of steer over FQHH, so I'm biased, but the only thing I would be pissed off about in your position is that I overpaid for what I got. I personally like the deeper variations in grain that steer has over FQHH and of course the weight and the thickness. IMO though FQHH patinas much better over time. I think that FQHH oz per oz is at least as strong, if not stronger than steer, but considering how much thicker and heavier the steer they are probably comparable in strength and will last longer than you will if cared for properly. Either way, both hides are guaranteed for life and both have their own unique merits.

 

[nerkg]

Cared for properly? I thought you were just supposed to wear it and do nothing else..

 

[Sloan1874]

I think Storm means over decades of wear.

 

[frussell]

A couple of pounds can mean a lot more when you wear a bigger size. My size 52 LHB, identified by Ken with photos and weight as steer and not horse, weighs in at 10 lbs. Not sure if it's all steer, or a hybrid, but it's a heavy mother. I've worked with steer and horse leather in the past, making western riding gear by hand, so I had a lurking feeling from the get-go that mine was "off," but properly tanned and sewn together, it is hard to tell even for someone who has some leatherworking experience. I just want what I paid for, and I've never owned a jacket made from FQHH. Lots of steerhide and cowhide jackets, but no horse, so I'm getting a replacement. Holly has been great so far, so we'll see how it comes out. In the meantime, I'm getting a free workout every time I wear the heavy steer, and I definitely need the exercise. Frank

 

[Feraud]

The issue is that people have been ripped off. They paid more (so far as I understand the pricing) for horse and didn't get horse. It's just wrong, whichever way you cut it. Kudos to Aero for trying to sort it out.

Well said. All that matters is if customers received what they paid for and Aero's response to the situation.
I'll guess it will be near impossible to sort out this mess. I also give Aero credit for trying.

 

[Peacoat]

I think Storm means over decades of wear.

Of course he does, but a very few of our posters just can't help agitating.