The Trials and Tribulations of Hat Stiffener

[thomasfarley19]

This sounds like it may be a sizing issue? A hat with less stiffener should conform to your head shape more readily than a very stiff hat. If you're putting your hat on straight (i.e. not doffed to one side, or front/back) and it's dropping to your ears, that hat is too big.

Yes, it's a quarter size too big. Stiffening the hat is just a work around to get it to fit. I've had some luck with Kahl hat stiffener but with this particular hat, I wanted to try shellac. It never hurts to learn different methods.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

This one particular is a Remington Stetson, I love the color but I prefer a stiff hat. Otherwise it just doesn't seem to sit on my head correctly. The bowl of the hat is always too deep and lets a softer hat rest on my ears. The stiffer hats hold the hat on top of my head instead.

Nothing wrong with liking stiff felt. We all have our personal preferences.

If hats fall to your ears it sounds like they are too large a size for you. Even the softest felt won’t do that if it’s sized properly for you.

 

[jlee562]

Yes, it's a quarter size too big. Stiffening the hat is just a work around to get it to fit. I've had some luck with Kahl hat stiffener but with this particular hat, I wanted to try shellac. It never hurts to learn different methods.

Adding sizers would be a lot easier, just sayin.

 

[thomasfarley19]

I'll still have to add sizers if I plan to wear it on a windy day. However if I get the crown stiff, it will sit where I like it. I'm thinking of giving it a gambler style crown with a deeper inset to hold the hat away from my ears

 

[JFerdora]

Thank you, I'll give it a try.

You will not be dissatisfied. My fur felt Stetson Temple is like new, again (except for the sweaty insider liner). I did not need to do anything to the crown, other than a good baby powder dusting and brushing.

Let continue to remove the advertisements and sports off our head and bring style back to the old hat rack.
God bless you and your family. Have a Merry Christmas. Christ is the reason!

 

[tacituskilgore1899]

Hello everyone. I'm new to making hats and using forums, so decided to take the question here after fruitless digging around the internet.

So I'm making a western hat (pretty wide brim, I'd say just a bit under 5"), wool felt for my first time, and I've ran into a question regarding shellac stiffeners - once you work it into the felt can you still shape it after it's dried using steam, or does it go rock solid once its dry and you have to give it shape while it's drying? I'm using my own concoction made of shellac flakes and denatured alcohol. All my commercial hats can be reshaped using steam (granted, they're not as stiff as a typical western hat would be), but they're stiff enough to hold the shape meaning they're bound to have had some sort of stiffener added?

My current blank is very floppy at the brim but pretty stiff at the crown after blocking. And I don't want a flat brim... If adding the shellac makes the hat stuck in a certain shape with no opportunity to manipulate it later, then how can I stiffen the brim so it holds the curl of a western hat (and just holds itself up instead of flopping down like a ladies' sun hat)?

Thank y'all for your responses.
P.S. I currently reside in the UK and their hat and overall millinery market seems to be lacking, but buying from the States ain't an option, because the prices and custom fees + delivery will end up costing me an arm and a leg.

 

[belfastboy]

Hello everyone. I'm new to making hats and using forums, so decided to take the question here after fruitless digging around the internet.

So I'm making a western hat (pretty wide brim, I'd say just a bit under 5"), wool felt for my first time, and I've ran into a question regarding shellac stiffeners - once you work it into the felt can you still shape it after it's dried using steam, or does it go rock solid once its dry and you have to give it shape while it's drying? I'm using my own concoction made of shellac flakes and denatured alcohol. All my commercial hats can be reshaped using steam (granted, they're not as stiff as a typical western hat would be), but they're stiff enough to hold the shape meaning they're bound to have had some sort of stiffener added?

My current blank is very floppy at the brim but pretty stiff at the crown after blocking. And I don't want a flat brim... If adding the shellac makes the hat stuck in a certain shape with no opportunity to manipulate it later, then how can I stiffen the brim so it holds the curl of a western hat (and just holds itself up instead of flopping down like a ladies' sun hat)?

Thank y'all for your responses.
P.S. I currently reside in the UK and their hat and overall millinery market seems to be lacking, but buying from the States ain't an option, because the prices and custom fees + delivery will end up costing me an arm and a leg.

I live in Canada and do buy some items from Guy Morse Brown in the UK> I particularly love working with their blocking springs...much easier to use than the classic blocking cord. They also sell fur felt capelines. Also look to The Trimming Company. I have bought fur felt,(rabbir and beaver) 'seconds' from them at great pricing. Perfect as practice felts or to make hats for friends and family as practice at not a huge cost.

My response to your question is "It Depends!" I am a classic fedora maker and need a bit of stiffener but not western stiff so I use a dilute mixture of shellac/denatrured alcohol and spread it lightly with a brush. I can always do multiple coats if needed but I can't take the shellac out once it is in.
I gauge it by colour....tablespoon of Ultra Blonde flakes to 250ml of alcohol. About the colour of healthy urine or a well oaked chardonnay.
You are taking on a very very tough project. Wool is far from ideal as a hat felt and even more so for a western. A 5" brim is huge and asking for a wool felt of that width to be stable is asking a lot. So realize you are walking up a very steep hill with this.
The use of steam is your friend. Steam will reactivate the shellac in fur felt (I have only worked with enough wool felt to know I will not do that ever again). The steam relaxes the shellac so the felt can be fully manipulated. The felt will set up and harden once dry.

 

[tacituskilgore1899]

I live in Canada and do buy some items from Guy Morse Brown in the UK> I particularly love working with their blocking springs...much easier to use than the classic blocking cord. They also sell fur felt capelines. Also look to The Trimming Company. I have bought fur felt,(rabbir and beaver) 'seconds' from them at great pricing. Perfect as practice felts or to make hats for friends and family as practice at not a huge cost.

My response to your question is "It Depends!" I am a classic fedora maker and need a bit of stiffener but not western stiff so I use a dilute mixture of shellac/denatrured alcohol and spread it lightly with a brush. I can always do multiple coats if needed but I can't take the shellac out once it is in.
I gauge it by colour....tablespoon of Ultra Blonde flakes to 250ml of alcohol. About the colour of healthy urine or a well oaked chardonnay.
You are taking on a very very tough project. Wool is far from ideal as a hat felt and even more so for a western. A 5" brim is huge and asking for a wool felt of that width to be stable is asking a lot. So realize you are walking up a very steep hill with this.
The use of steam is your friend. Steam will reactivate the shellac in fur felt (I have only worked with enough wool felt to know I will not do that ever again). The steam relaxes the shellac so the felt can be fully manipulated. The felt will set up and harden once dry.

Yeah, I've seen the trimming company's "seconds" but was afraid I'd receive a blank with a hole in it or something else that is unworkable. What quality do they come in exactly? Will look into your suggestions, much appreciated!

Thanks for the heads up regarding wool felt! I'm just starting off, so went for the cheapest option.. will see how much it bites me back in the future, haha.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Yeah, I've seen the trimming company's "seconds" but was afraid I'd receive a blank with a hole in it or something else that is unworkable. What quality do they come in exactly? Will look into your suggestions, much appreciated!

Thanks for the heads up regarding wool felt! I'm just starting off, so went for the cheapest option.. will see how much it bites me back in the future, haha.

I’m not a hatter and I can’t answer any questions regarding stiffeners. I have bought around a dozen of the second quality hat bodies from Trimmings and most I haven’t been able to find the “flaw(s)” that made them seconds. I have some nice hats made from those felts.

 

[belfastboy]

Yeah, I've seen the trimming company's "seconds" but was afraid I'd receive a blank with a hole in it or something else that is unworkable. What quality do they come in exactly? Will look into your suggestions, much appreciated!

Thanks for the heads up regarding wool felt! I'm just starting off, so went for the cheapest option.. will see how much it bites me back in the future, haha.

4 years ago when I began this journey I picked up a bunch of Trimming Co felt seconds. I can't remember one that was not workable. Many of them the 'seconds' or flaw could not be found. I tried working with wool felt as I contemplated making a line of ready to wear fashion hats for ladies at economical prices. The cheapness of the wool did not make up for the time and frustration it took to make the damn hat. If you lived close by I have a few wool felts I would gladly donate to you because I never want to work with the crap ever again but they are not worth the postage to the UK. Once in a while they offer beaver seconds at great prices. I have purchased a bunch of them and with all of them the flaws were in the brim at the outer edge so if I was making a narrower brim the flaw was cut off.

 

[tacituskilgore1899]

I’m not a hatter and I can’t answer any questions regarding stiffeners. I have bought around a dozen of the second quality hat bodies from Trimmings and most I haven’t been able to find the “flaw(s)” that made them seconds. I have some nice hats made from those felts.

ok, thanks! I've looked at what the Trimming's got to offer and for now they have the "3rd grade" fur bodies available. Not sure if it's much different from their 2nds.. amazing price though. Do they come and go?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

ok, thanks! I've looked at what the Trimming's got to offer and for now they have the "3rd grade" fur bodies available. Not sure if it's much different from their 2nds.. amazing price though. Do they come and go?

They do come and go. The 3rd grade felts would give me pause:

From Trimmings:

“These peachbloom fur felts are factory damaged and we have graded them "C", which means the damage is in the upper part of the crown or middle of the brim. The faults are usually a small hole or graze in the pile. They are still usable but you will need to be "inventive" with how you use it. Some may not be able to be used for regular hat shapes, perhaps just small pill boxes for example. Sizes and colours are variable. For example choc can be a variety of browns, you will recieve from the top of the pile.”

 

[belfastboy]

ok, thanks! I've looked at what the Trimming's got to offer and for now they have the "3rd grade" fur bodies available. Not sure if it's much different from their 2nds.. amazing price though. Do they come and go?

The popular colours sell out quickly. Most often they have black. More rare are the beaver seconds. I just make a point of checking their site regularly....well less now that I don't use seconds unless I have a style in mind that I want to experiment with. Better I ruin a $30 felt than a $150 one. I have found them great to deal with.....I would send them a inquiry as to the difference between seconds and thirds. If they have holes in the felt and you are making a western.....charge extra and call it a bullet hole.

 

[tacituskilgore1899]

They do come and go. The 3rd grade felts would give me pause:

From Trimmings:

“These peachbloom fur felts are factory damaged and we have graded them "C", which means the damage is in the upper part of the crown or middle of the brim. The faults are usually a small hole or graze in the pile. They are still usable but you will need to be "inventive" with how you use it. Some may not be able to be used for regular hat shapes, perhaps just small pill boxes for example. Sizes and colours are variable. For example choc can be a variety of browns, you will recieve from the top of the pile.”

yeah, thought so.. will get into habit of regularly checking in on them as belfastboy suggested. but for now I'll work with what I have and see how it does or doesn't turn out.

 

[tacituskilgore1899]

The popular colours sell out quickly. Most often they have black. More rare are the beaver seconds. I just make a point of checking their site regularly....well less now that I don't use seconds unless I have a style in mind that I want to experiment with. Better I ruin a $30 felt than a $150 one. I have found them great to deal with.....I would send them a inquiry as to the difference between seconds and thirds. If they have holes in the felt and you are making a western.....charge extra and call it a bullet hole.

Very inventive solution to the holes there, sir xD

 

[belfastboy]

Very inventive solution to the holes there, sir xD

If you check out Instagram for custom hatters.....dirt, rips, holes, burn marks are all very much in vogue in certain boho circles. The contemporary BoHo hatter outnumber classic fedora makers by at least a factor of 10 to 1. Holes & dirt are 'in'.

 

[BobHufford]

If ylu check out Instagram for custom hatters.....dirt, rips, holes, burn marks are all very much in vogue in certain boho circles. The contemporary BoHo hatter outnumber classic fedora makers by at least a factor of 10 to 1. Holes & dirt are 'in'.

Only if they have been applied to new felts. I can't seem to give away a hat with natural distressing. It must be the "Eeeeww" factor.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Only if they have been applied to new felts. I can't seem to give away a hat with natural distressing. It must be the "Eeeeww" factor.

All you need to do is add some burn marks around the moth holes and tie a bandana around the crown and you’re all set.

 

[moehawk]

Only if they have been applied to new felts. I can't seem to give away a hat with natural distressing. It must be the "Eeeeww" factor.

I guess that's the difference between Boho and Hobo.

 

[belfastboy]

Only if they have been applied to new felts. I can't seem to give away a hat with natural distressing. It must be the "Eeeeww" factor.

Ya gotta then claim that you the "Artiste" created the look and charge a ridiculous amount!!! People pay extra for new jeans with holes after all!!!

All you need to do is add some burn marks around the moth holes and tie a bandana around the crown and you’re all set.

And double the price!