The Rise of the Term "True Vintage"

[Gene]

Has anyone else noticed this? I just noticed it the other day but eBay now offers a category when listing an item called "true vintage." I found this interesting because it's obviously a term invented to differentiate what is actually a vintage item from all of the reproductions and "vintage-inspired" clothing the market is now flooded with.

I think this term is going to start being used more and more often, and pretty sure eventually instead of telling people who ask where your shirt came from we'll have to say "oh, it's true vintage" instead of "oh I got it at the Goodwill. It's vintage."

 

[FountainPenGirl]

As time wears on a lot of designations become so overused they come up with more designations to separate the chaff.

 

[Shangas]

What's "false vintage" then?

 

[Dinerman]

I think it's really just an ebay term, available on the drop-down menu, not one people choose to use.

 

[Edward]

What's "false vintage" then?

Reproduction, one presumes - or "vintage style". eBay UK is categorised rather differently than the .com website, but the "vintage" sections for the 30s/40s/50s decades are often chock full of "vintage style" items - like bad Eighties DB suits being listed as "Forties Demob MadMen STYLE suit!". I'd welcome a different section for repro. Quite likely I'd shop there more often too - I don't place any especial value on when an item was manufactured providing the cut is correct.

 

[rocketeer]

Vintage! One of the most abused words on eBay and forums all over the net. When someone describes something with the term Vintage, how often is the year noted. One would be correct to describe a shirt as vintage if it was made in 2010 because that is what it is: A shirt of 2010 vintage.
Wine is always listed as of 197? or whatever vintage but cars I believe are only classed as vintage if built between 1914? and 1930. Dont hang me for this because owners specify their own classification depending on how they feel about their expensive auto's. 1931-to, let me guess1939-42 are often classed as pre-war and anything after that as Classic, even if the old car has no classic qualities about it other than it is old.
It is people such as us who have bastardised the word. Thus my 1964 BSA is classed as 'Classic' when it is clearly not in the same league as a BSA Gold Star (of similar vintage)which indeed does posses 'Classic' qualities.
One of my favourite hate words is describing someone as Dynamic. "it sounds good so we will describe it as vintage, Dynamic or whatever will make a thing sound GREAT"
There are lots of these words: Atomic Swing Rockabilly? How can that describe a dress. Vintage Authentic Retro to describe a leather jacket? From that, how would you tell the difference between a real WWII item or a very well made reproduction or a shoddy Asian copy for example.
This will always be debated and I admit I will use whatever legal means to get the best price for anything I list on the Bay without resorting to blatant lies.
And Edward, I'm with you on the repro thing, not everything 'Vintage' is better quality, it may have been when new but saggy pockets and stained armpit holes do nothing for me.
But what would you call that section? 'Repro Vintage'?
J

 

[tonyb]

Usage trumps, no matter what objections I or anyone else might raise.

My crystal ball is in the shop, so at this moment I have no idea if "true vintage" will gain currency. But if it does, well, there are many other usages I find much more objectionable. At least I think I know what it's supposed to mean.

Still, I'm annoyed by what I still think is a misuse of "retro." In the Tony dictionary, "retro" and "vintage" are certainly not synonyms. Indeed, they mean almost the opposite -- "retro" is a new thing imitative of a past style, whereas "vintage" means what I believe people mean when they say "true vintage": the Real McCoy, made during some past era, and not a more recent copy or something "inspired by" an item of whatever "true vintage." (And then there's the prefix "retro," as in "retrofit," which means a more recent adaptation or alteration of an older item.)

Alas, very few people pay any mind whatsoever to the Tony dictionary.

 

[DamianM]

well it is true vintage if its pre 64 and its retro if its anything after that.

I despise it when people call 80s vintage.

 

[tonyb]

Yeah, I understand the sentiment, Damian, but that's just because I have difficulty accepting that anything made when I was well into my adulthood could possibly be considered old. But I can appreciate how a person 30 or 40 years younger might have a very different take on it, just as I thought of stuff made in the 1930s and '40s and even the '50s as quite old-fashioned when I was a youngster.

But, by one widely accepted definition, and as rocketeer has already noted, "vintage" doesn't necessarily mean "old" at all. Just look at the "vintages" on bottles of wine. (And consider the etymology of the word itself.) Hell, we have lotions and potions and such in bathroom drawers older than most of that.

 

[HudsonHawk]

well it is true vintage if its pre 64 and its retro if its anything after that.

I despise it when people call 80s vintage.

So wait a second...what should I call my parachute pants?

 

[DamianM]

retro^^^

MC HAMMER!

 

[Shangas]

The very WORD "Vintage" relates to WINE. Literally the Age of the Wine - Vint Age. The year in which a particular batch was harvested, processed and bottled.

I remember there was a discussion about this somewhere else online once. And someone asked how to diefine 'vintage' as we would understand it.

I think one of the answers given was: "To be classified as vintage, an item has to have ceased commercial production, or be at least 50 years old".

I'm not sure how much that applies to HERE, but it's an interesting thought.

 

[HudsonHawk]

As is noted, the word "vintage" is derived specifically from winemaking, indicating the year the wine was produced. In common usage, "vintage" can be used as a noun meaning the year or period an item was produced. In this sense, it's perfectly legitimate to say something is "80's vintage", as it simply indicates the item was produced during the 80's timeframe. "Vintage" can also be used as an adjective meaning something is characterized by a classic or enduring appeal. In this sense the item doesn't have to be of any specific age to be "vintage", only considered to be "timeless" in aesthetic appeal. I suspect that most folks around here use the term in the latter way (or at least in some sort of combination) when referring to clothes, hats, shoes, cars, etc., though they probably get a little rankled if there is not at least some minimum age attached.

 

[vitanola]

So wait a second...what should I call my parachute pants?

A mistake?