The Powder Room is Now Ladies Only. But I LIKE Talking To Ladies!

[Son_of_Atropos]

The decision is mostly irrelevant to the vast majority of the loungers because it really doesn't affect them (meaning: I assume few male loungers actively participated in the powder room.) Nevertheless, there is something repugnant about limiting male participation to an area that is thought as "feminine." I'm a bit surprised that equality is all fine and good unless there are some creepy men around.

There is just something about it that doesn't feel right. But it's your "gin joint" so suit yourself.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Want to really understand a man's true character? Tell him "no."

 

[Feraud]

The decision is mostly irrelevant to the vast majority of the loungers because it really doesn't affect them (meaning I assume few male loungers actively participated in the powder room.) Nevertheless, there is something repugnant about limiting male participation to an area that is thought as "feminine." I'm a bit surprised that equality is all fine and good unless there are some creepy men around.

Certainly you are intelligent enough to see this as nothing new?

Many just laws are enacted on the majority as a result of the behavior of the few. Drinking and texting laws while driving are two simple examples.
As are stalking laws..

To continue the rhetoric after all that has been written comes off as disturbing.

 

[LizzieMaine]

And as has been said repeatedly, those who don't like the flavor of our beverages are free to seek another establishment. Nobody's nailing anybody's feet to the floor here.

 

[RBH]

And as has been said repeatedly, those who don't like the flavor of our beverages are free to seek another establishment. Nobody's nailing anybody's feet to the floor here.

Very well said.

 

[sheeplady]

Here are just a few problems I see with this decision:

1. The "vote" was not democratic: only those who profess to be women were invited to vote. This is inherently SEXIST - the opposite of what is surely the goal. Two wrongs don't make a right.

2. The decision tacitly allows misogyny anywhere else on the site EXCEPT the Powder Room. It also invites misandry within the Powder Room. Surely sexism should not appear ANYWHERE on the site. If there was a problem, why was it not met with a no-tolerance policy?

3. It makes women into "The Other" or the "out-group", which will tend to INCREASE misogyny rather than decrease it.

4. It gives moderators a way out of accepting responsibility for the fact that they permitted sexism to run rampant on the site to such an extent that women feel forced to claim a corner of the site in which they must deny access to all men.

5. It invites those who are sexist to camouflage their activities, which will allow them to work in far more harmful ways.

6. Where does this leave transgender/transsexuals? Must they now declare their gender identity? Since these folks are already victims of prejudice and harassment, this has a lot of potential for negative consequences for them.

7. Male feminists such as myself are now banned from commenting on women's issues. Sure, I haven't exactly been loquacious on the subject (or any other), but now I can't even if I wanted to. That's one LESS voice for women's rights and gender equality. How does that help?

8. The decision sets up an "us vs. them" culture which cannot possibly be healthy.

9. It disenfranchises men who have never caused a problem. Again, this is inherently SEXIST - the opposite of what is surely the goal.

10. It allows supporters of the decision to deride less active (but no less worthy) members who choose to come out against the decision. This kind of ad hominem attack is evidence of elitism.

And those are just off the top of my head.

Mark my words: this will lead to more sexism on a site which has apparently already endured a lot of it. This is a terrible way to address the problem, and it promises to make things far worse for women and for any men who are not sexists. Meanwhile, the misogynists must be thinking all their birthdays have come at once.

Somehow I doubt that any of the above issues were given proper consideration before the vote or by the moderators or owners of the site. What seems to have happened here is a knee-jerk reaction, and it is sure to backfire.

Actions speak louder than words. The fact that you self-label as a feminist; but yet have had no interest in taking part in many of the discussions surrounding women's issues in the time you have been here, appear to have not noticed any sexism towards women in your time here (by your use of the word "apparently"), and finally, imply that you have never stood up for a fellow being here on a feminist belief doesn't really lend credence or believability to your self-proclaimed feminist status.

You know how I know a man is truly a feminist? When he teaches his children to be good people who stand up for themselves and others, when he treats his partner with respect and expects respect in return, when he cares about how his actions and the actions of others' around him affect living beings. There are many men who are feminists, but I know them as such through their actions and not their words.

Feminism is more than slapping a bumper sticker on your car.

 

[stevew443]

Although the vote on keeping men from posting in the Powder Room does not really affect me (I think I made one post in there regarding clothes lines of all things), I did follow the vote quite closely. The women of the group chose to keep their room free from comments made from men. They have every right to do so. It has to do with an eroding freedom called the freedom of association. Believe me when I say that I choose not to associate with the Ku Klux Klan and I am fairly certain they have by-laws that would forbid them from ever associating with me. I am happy with that. The problem comes up when people are not included in a group with which I associate. They do not want to be a member of a group for any reason other than the fact that certain people chose not to associate with them.

Actually, the change in the Powder Room should have no bearing on anyone. Men can still read the posts, they just cannot reply to them in that forum. At least for me, there have been only 3 or 4 threads in that room that interested me enough to read because what is discussed in that room does not apply to anything that I tend to get excited about. I enjoy seeing the subjects that are being discussed, but it is rare that I ever delve into the discussions there. I think that some folks just are taking the opposite view of Groucho Marx who once penned a note resigning from a club... I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member. The folks complaining seem to be saying "I only want to be in a club that will not have me as a member."

 

[Lady Day]

This thread is spectacular.

Just so the gentlemen know, The Front Parlor is mixed company about women's topics.

 

[Matt Crunk]

This ship has sailed people. It would seem to me that the very overbearing attitude that won't let this issue rest is probably the same attitude that prompted the rule change in the first place. Enough said. Now let's move on, shall we?

 

[countryclubjoe]

Bartenders

Please, the proper action to now take is simple. Close this thread and make an announcement that any form of Misandry or Misogyny in any thread will result in the immediate lose of membership. The folks that already posted their opinions on the subject have done so, no need to continue the debate. When debates start moving towards the direction of threats and name calling they are no longer debates but ugly arguments. Please end it now and lets get back to discussing and debating the GE and back to having fun..
My .02
Thank you for affording me the opportunity to post my opinions.

Best regards.

CCJ

 

[Mark]

Thank you for that, not being as articulate as your good self I refrained from voicing my opinion about this awful sexist/pc decision but you articulated my thoughts perfectly. :eusa_clap

Can someone please explain to me how having a Woman's Only Thread is good for the over all image of this board?
I was never a fan of the ole boy network mentality nor am I a fan of the Ole Gal network...

Would having an Asian Only members be ok? Or Jewish members only ok? SURELY NOT....

One of the greatest things that occurred during the GE in America was the fight for civil rights and equality for us all.

I can only recall posting in the Powder Room may be 2/3 times however I read post on different topics in the aforementioned thread and I have found it to be informative, educational, enjoyable etc. However, now knowing that I cannot reply or give an opinion or relate a situation etc will more then likely lead me to not read any of the post, therefore we all lose something due in part to this biased rule.

My male member .02

Best regards

CCJ

 

[LuvMyMan]

There may be some sort of thinking process that seems to escape a few individuals that have stated an opinion on the entire topic of the new policy and the enforcement of it (regarding the part of the powder room for men only). It can be viewed as a change that was sought after due to reasons that those having the ability to make the change, did so for some positive reasons, or, you can view it any other way you desire to. Not everyone thinking about it before or after the choice was made may have voted for it, but the vote was taken and the choice is behind us all.

There are not a large number of "loungers" that are female as compared to the male population. There are less than a nano number of male loungers that have even given the entire situation any thought one way or another. But no matter what you as an individual may have thought about the asking of votes, and then the outcome, there is no one person more important here, then another. In some ways, I think if the female members can have a part that can add to the number of posters and to participate being here on the lounge, then it can be a good thing. They have a part now that anyone is very much welcome to participate, so that seems to resolve any real issues. The rest of the entire lounge is fair game to anyone to post. And as much as I may not have felt the need for such a choice about a "female" only part of the lounge to exist, I can tell you sadly there are a few "male" loungers that are fairly low and not too savvy on how to act in a proper decent fashion. To date, within the last 24 hours, I had to deal with such a individual and it was in my opinion, moronic at best. I hold nothing personally against the person, and in some ways I actually felt sorry for him to even desire to be rude and mouthy. I say that as from my viewpoint it was like he brought a knife to a gunfight....as a woman I have never once not been able to stand up for myself. I did however see that some of the real "men" on the lounge did in fact make the attempt to more or less, explain that his demeanor was far from appropriate. Eventually a few of the Bartenders observed the tone of the exchanges on that thread and made it clear enough is enough. This is an example of why the asking of the voting was in fact, allowed to take place by the head honchos that run the lounge.

Myself, I did not vote one way or another regarding the female only powder room policy. I do not exchange too much there and felt maybe it was a bit much for what the problems have been. But I am not a pro on what may have happened one way or another.

What is important more than anything else is just to keep in mind, people are people. You may like cream in your coffee and someone else may gag if they had cream in their coffee...but let everyone have a cup and enjoy what they can while here. Nothing wrong with a healthy debate...keeping it civil and open minded. There are more good people here on the Lounge then any where else you can go on any website I can think of, more so when it comes to vintage items and common decency. I may rub a few people the wrong way and not desire to ever hurt their feelings or to cause them any problems, and maybe the same goes around in return. But I can say for the most part, even when I can tell someone does not view what I view in opinion, that the majority do not respond in a uncalled for attack or having a temper tantrum simply because a view point or opinion is not the same as mine.

 

[Edward]

i think every topic we men could wish to discuss is already well and truly catered for.

Precisely.

Now, if we could only have as many threads about leather jackets ........

You'll buy one eventually, you know. You will, though. You just need to find the right one..... (I can see you in a barnstormer with a long-haired mouton collar...).

Just a quick note of finality: no "men only" sub forum is being remotely considered.

Nor should it be. I might, however, advance the suggestion that there are severla posters on here who would perhaps be better suited to an entirely different forum of their own. Pigheadedfloggingadeadhorsewhilemissingthepoint.com has a ring.

How sad to read that this website will be emulating Jim Crow laws when it comes to equal opportunity discussion.

Grow up. You silly, pompous little man.

You guys have a Ministry of Silly Arguments other there, don't you?

I don't know if it's a real 9-5 affair though. I mean, they might be arguing in their spare time.

Like I mentioned in a previous post. If some of the lady members were being harassed by some male members on this board, they have a responsible to report said male members and expose said male members for their misogynist behavior.

They were, they did, and the most effective solution to a long-standing problem has been chosen. Such a shame you don't like it.

Evil folks only strive when good folks stand by and do nothing.

The irony!

My .02

By this point, you've gone the whole dollar.

I am a big grown up fellow

Your posts in this thread run rather to the contrary.

Was the change publicised at all? I know an email was sent out, but I don't do Faceplant or any of them things, so I wouldn't know. If not, this might be useful to get even more of the old female FLoungers to return.

Yes, it went out via the Facebook; several female Loungers whom I know personally who have not posted in quite some time (and who left these parts specifically because of these issues) are definitely aware. I hope at least some of them come back.

Just saw the email regarding this change. So the Fedora Lounge has now opted to become a sexist organization.

You also need to grow up.

6. Where does this leave transgender/transsexuals? Must they now declare their gender identity? Since these folks are already victims of prejudice and harassment, this has a lot of potential for negative consequences for them.

Had you followed the debate on this matter, this - and, indeed, all the other expired equo you seek to flog - were explicitly addressed and influenced the decision.

The irony of a so-called "male feminist" trying to force his point of view on women whether they want it or not does not, of course, escape notice. That's exactly the kind of behavior that a lot of women who've complained to me over the years are most fed up about. You few guys who keep kicking about a decision that's already been made only prove the point that these women raise.

Precisely.

Many just laws are enacted on the majority as a result of the behavior of the few. Drinking and texting laws while driving are two simple examples.
As are stalking laws..

To continue the rhetoric after all that has been written comes off as disturbing.

Quite. You can probably add most criminal laws to your list, too.

This thread is spectacular.

As the young people say, it delivers. If the way some people seem to think wasn't so desperately sad, it would be hilarious.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Well said, Edward.

The women of the Lounge have spoken, I support this move, and any man who doesn't should grow up and grow a pair.

Brad

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Agreed on all points. Edward. Some men act as if they got into a kindergarten fight and were told to calm down. Instead the roll on the floor and scream. This and the constant (faulty) comparison to civil rights etc is the poorest behavior I have seen on the lounge for quite some time. Congratulations.
Please go and don't come back.

For those just concerned with the practically of the new rules. There are plenty other subforums that would be fit for posting threads about all kinds of topics that relate to both genders. I can't think of anything that would go missing.

I hope the new solution will push the powder room and bring back a few members that went missing

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's already happening, and we're hoping it will continue. I hope the women who are returning will not take the sentiments expressed in this thread as representative of the majority of men in the Lounge. We have a lot of good guys here, and we -- and I personally -- appreciate their words of support. If you ever get to Maine, look me up -- the popcorn will be on the house.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

It is time for us all to move on and that is a fitting way to end this thread.

'Lest I need to drag out another dead horse.

If you would like to discuss it further, please feel free to contact your friendly neighborhood mods.

We all stand united in providing a safe, fun, informative, and all around pleasant experience for all of you and we sincerely appreciate your contributions that make this the amazing place that it is.