The Official Stetson Nutria Quality Thread

[MikeinRome]

Late 1910's to 1920 Stetson Real Nutria or Clear Nutria velour, Pendleton Roundup with 4 1/2 inch brim and 6 1/2 inch open crown. Lot Number 4172. Just got this from Dr Max. I suspect the hatband ribbon is a replacement, just doesn't look right. The felt on this hat is gorgeous.
The sweatband says this is a Real Nutria hat, but on the back of sweatband above the Lot Number is stamped "5XXXXX 5XXXXX" See last photo. Make of it what you will. 5X would be Clear Nutria. This 5XXXXX stamping was done over and over and goes almost completely around the inside of the sweatband!!
This stamping is somewhat small and faint and unless you're close-up with good lighting, it just looks like black smudging along the top inner edge of the sweatband. I looked at the sweatband on 3 or 4 occasions before I realized what they'd done with the stamping. They must have stamped it at least 20 times or more.

 

[One Drop]

Late 1910's to 1920 Stetson Real Nutria velour, Pendleton Roundup with 4 1/2 inch brim and 6 1/2 inch open crown. Lot Number 4172. Just got this from Dr Max. I suspect the hatband ribbon is a replacement, just doesn't look right. The felt on this hat is gorgeous.

Incredible hat! You're right, the ribbon looks way less worn than the rest of the hat.

 

[MikeinRome]

Incredible hat! You're right, the ribbon looks way less worn than the rest of the hat.

It doesn't look like ribbon from that time period and the style of it isn't in keeping with what Stetson would have done. Looks like it was taken off of a city dress hat many decades later.

 

[MikeinRome]

Stetson Boss Raw Edge Clear Nutria just bought from Dr Max. Has 4 1/4 inch brim and 7 inch open crown. There's no Lot Number on sweatband, but I estimate it at early to mid 1930's. Max called this "The Denver", but actually it was sold by The Denver Dry Goods Co. I suppose you can debate if they also intended this hat to be called The Denver.
It differs from my Tom Mix hat as follows: It has a shorter brim, the Mix being 5 inches. The brim-edge binding under the edge of this hat is 3/4 inches vs about 5/8 inch on the Mix, which has a bound edge, most all under the brim except for about a 1/16 on top and the hatband ribbon on this is 2 inches wide vs 1 3/4 wide on the Tom Mix.
The sweatband seam is stitched, but it's not done by Stetson but by someone later.

 

[RossRYoung]

I really wished that one would have fit me, and was surprised to see Max list it since he was always after a novelty sized western.

I remember the felt being fairly thick and not very moldable, which was rather surprising. I was also very suspicious of the ribbon and binding, was fairly certain they were an aftermarket addition.

 

[M Hatman]

I really wished that one would have fit me, and was surprised to see Max list it since he was always after a novelty sized western.

I remember the felt being fairly thick and not very moldable, which was rather surprising. I was also very suspicious of the ribbon and binding, was fairly certain they were an aftermarket addition.

This: on any Boss RAW edge hat. Stetson sold them RAW edge. Otherwise, they DID have other models with brim binding. Read any of the period catalogs, they were proud of it being RAW but still having structure.

Many a hatter, cleaner would provide such services at any time after the hat was sold...to well, now.

On this one I am almost 100 percent sure the ribbon at least is a modern replacement (I think i remember this hat when Max got it, and as I recall the ribbon was in poor shape).

Still a real nice hat even though he just had to re-size it (like all those others).

 

[RossRYoung]

This: on any Boss RAW edge hat. Stetson sold them RAW edge. Otherwise, they DID have other models with brim binding. Read any of the period catalogs, they were proud of it being RAW but still having structure.

Many a hatter, cleaner would provide such services at any time after the hat was sold...to well, now.

On this one I am almost 100 percent sure the ribbon at least is a modern replacement (I think i remember this hat when Max got it, and as I recall the ribbon was in poor shape).

Still a real nice hat even though he just had to re-size it (like all those others).

I sold it to Max, and itt was a small 3/8 IIRC, and yes the ribbon and binding seemed like newer additions.

BRE still exists with under brim bindings though. I own one, and this clear Noot is also under brim. The stitching detail also gives it away of being added though, as it is applied rather unevenly.

Here’s the post, in your thread, of my BRE with under brim binding:

Post in thread 'Derby, Western, Fedora...a Venerable Legend, THE Stetson 3X...BEFORE 1970!!!!'
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...the-stetson-3x-before-1970.94192/post-3083205

 

[RossRYoung]

 

[M Hatman]

I sold it to Max, and itt was a small 3/8 IIRC, and yes the ribbon and binding seemed like newer additions.

BRE still exists with under brim bindings though. I own one, and this clear Noot is also under brim. The stitching detail also gives it away of being added though, as it is applied rather unevenly.

Here’s the post, in your thread, of my BRE with under brim binding:

Post in thread 'Derby, Western, Fedora...a Venerable Legend, THE Stetson 3X...BEFORE 1970!!!!'
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...the-stetson-3x-before-1970.94192/post-3083205

Nice to bring attention to this one again! Cannot look at it enough.....wonderful ad for it.
I always like the underbinding look on a western. Very smart (what group had that as a signature look for their hats, I cannot think now).

Nice to have the additional info on the "Max" hat too.....to bad it was altered so from when you had it.

As for the underbinding, yep and I think that goes back a while but especially popular in the 50's....but, I was talking a full bound edge on a BRE, underbinding is differant, it is not a bound edge, as it does not cover the edge.

Any Bound Edge ribbon on a BRE now found would be aftermarket, perhaps when the hat was getting "freshened up" or somebody saw a bound edge and said "that looks cool" (which it does) and brought it to a hat shop.......a LOT can happen to a hat through the years (as we see even recently) all one needs is access to a hatter.

 

[RossRYoung]

I assumed that’s what you meant, but I was also unsure why you even brought that up. The ‘max’ hat is also, under brim binding. I was clarifying that since I assumed you hadn’t noticed that detail in the photos.

 

[M Hatman]

I assumed that’s what you meant, but I was also unsure why you even brought that up. The ‘max’ hat is also, under brim binding. I was clarifying that since I assumed you hadn’t noticed that detail in the photos.

And you were absolutly right,indeed I did not notice.

On my tablet it looks like it has a bound brim.....my bad. When I expand the pictures greatly, yep....underbinding. My bad.....Definitely need to look closer before commenting next time.

Sorry for the unnecessary confusion...........

 

[MikeinRome]

Here's a photo of a 1920's Stetson Clear Nutria long hair or velour that splintercellsz listed in 2018 in a FL Classified ad for sale for $110 or best offer. Prices sure have changed!

 

[RossRYoung]

6 7/8 size, pity about the sweat band, and small overall dimensions. I’d say the price is still about right tbh

 

[Just Daniel]

Those are really nice. Why do you say 5X would be clear nutria? I don’t remember that, but I have forgotten a lot.

Late 1910's to 1920 Stetson Real Nutria or Clear Nutria velour, Pendleton Roundup with 4 1/2 inch brim and 6 1/2 inch open crown. Lot Number 4172. Just got this from Dr Max. I suspect the hatband ribbon is a replacement, just doesn't look right. The felt on this hat is gorgeous.
The sweatband says this is a Real Nutria hat, but on the back of sweatband above the Lot Number is stamped "5XXXXX 5XXXXX" See last photo. Make of it what you will. 5X would be Clear Nutria. This 5XXXXX stamping was done over and over and goes almost completely around the inside of the sweatband!!
This stamping is somewhat small and faint and unless you're close-up with good lighting, it just looks like black smudging along the top inner edge of the sweatband. I looked at the sweatband on 3 or 4 occasions before I realized what they'd done with the stamping. They must have stamped it at least 20 times or more.

 

[MikeinRome]

Those are really nice. Why do you say 5X would be clear nutria? I don’t remember that, but I have forgotten a lot.

Since you ask, I had to try to recall what my thinking was when I said 5X was Clear Nutria. I could be mistaken by saying that, but here's my thinking:
1. Looking at the photo of splintercellsz Clear Nutria hat, the felt looks in color and texture just like my hat.
2. Stetson had 5X Clear Beaver hats.
3. Early on, Stetson had 1X Nutria, Real Nutria, and Clear Nutria. So 5X is apparently the same as either Real Nutria or Clear Nutria, unless it's a separate category between Real and Clear, but I doubt that's the case.

 

[Just Daniel]

Ok. I so we don’t have any advertisements or labels that put the two together? Then that looks like fairly open speculation.

Since you ask, I had to try to recall what my thinking was when I said 5X was Clear Nutria. I could be mistaken by saying that, but here's my thinking:
1. Looking at the photo of splintercellsz Clear Nutria hat, the felt looks in color and texture just like my hat.
2. Stetson had 5X Clear Beaver hats.
3. Early on, Stetson had 1X Nutria, Real Nutria, and Clear Nutria. So 5X is apparently the same as either Real Nutria or Clear Nutria, unless it's a separate category between Real and Clear, but I doubt that's the case.

 

[MikeinRome]

Ok. I so we don’t have any advertisements or labels that put the two together? Then that looks like fairly open speculation.

I guess that's why I called it either a Real Nutria or Clear Nutria.

 

[alanfgag]

I guess that's why I called it either a Real Nutria or Clear Nutria.

The stamp on this hat denotes "made of real nutria fur". Stetson used this oval imprint in two different design variations through the 1920s, which would be the era of your hat suggested by the LOT4XXXX stamp. There was 1X Nutria, (c.1900-1920) Clear Nutria Quality, Real Nutria Quality before WWII and a Nutria Quality post war. There was never a 5X clear nutria quality.

 

[MikeinRome]

The stamp on this hat denotes "made of real nutria fur". Stetson used this oval imprint in two different design variations through the 1920s, which would be the era of your hat suggested by the LOT4XXXX stamp. There was 1X Nutria, (c.1900-1920) Clear Nutria Quality, Real Nutria Quality before WWII and a Nutria Quality post war. There was never a 5X clear nutria quality. View attachment 806813

That stamp doesn't say anything about "made of real Nutria". I don't get whatever point you're trying to make.
Stetson also had a level of Beaver hats they called Real Beaver, and I don't know what X-level those were.
I'm not dogmatically attached to any conclusion about my hat, but just hoping to get to the truth. Beyond that, this is just an esoteric discussion.
I don't know if it's even humanly possible to tell the difference between a Real Nutria Velour and a Clear Nutria velour. I'm just happy to have it, whichever it is.
I'll just ask this, out of curiosity. Before this hat appeared, have you ever heard of 5X Nutria before?

 

[MikeinRome]

OK...I took another look at the 1900 Stetson catalog and there were these grades of Nutria hats listed:
1X Nutria, Nutria, Real Nutria, and Clear Nutria. So that's 4 grades of Nutria, not 3.
Interesting, looking at the logos for Real Nutria and Clear Nutria hats, the Real Nutrias are priced higher than the Clear Nutrias, so a Real Nutria looks like the top level!!
Going by the price list on page 22, Clear Nutria seems to be about the least expensive grade of Nutria, priced at $36 per dozen and up, depending on the dimensions.
So I am quite happy to accept the fact that my hat is Real Nutria Quality!