The layman's guide to classic hats

[newturnofphrase]

- The Homburg is definitely more formal than the Bowler. It depends/ depended quite a lot on the time and setting how these two styles' respective formality was perceived.

This is somewhat true. Certainly at the turn of the century the bowler was an everyman's hat, while the homburg was strictly elite. Today I would say they're about equal at the highest levels of formality, but the bowler can be used in a far more broad range of less formal outfits than a Homburg. Depending on the style of bowler, you can wear a bowler with all sorts of things and have it work. Homburgs are, IMO, limited to a full suit at the minimum.

Edit: just read Brad's reply, so I guess this is redundant.

 

[mayserwegener]

The Homburg was considered outrageous when Edward debuted it at Ascot. Fedoras (not a Continental term) and Homburgs (not a Continental term) were very similar (if not the same) at the turn of the 19th century. BTW who is determining the current level of formality?

 

[John in Covina]

A tuxedo is a jacket. Part of a black-tie dinner-suit.

From the top down, it's...

White Tie
Black Tie
Suit
Everything else.

One thing I learned ages ago is formal needs a peak lapel, a tux with a notched lapel is not as formal. (In the local tux shops they do not have one peak lapel tux on display.)

 

[Experimental]

Ah, I love the examples you gave Rabbit. In a similar vein, every time I look closely at old photos I see things that puncture preconceptions about clothing.

Reminds me of a quote an English professor once gave on learning how to write:

"Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly," Tenzin Gyatso, Dalai Lama

 

[BR Gordon]

Reminds me of a quote an English professor once gave on learning how to write:

"Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly," Tenzin Gyatso, Dalai Lama

That's a good lesson and applies to almost everything in life.

 

[wandering-trader]

Are there any hats you would say are fall/winter only?

Project folder updated with everyone's input thus far, but ran out of room on page for tophat.

Do the Derby through flat cap show a preference for hat formality the way I have the brackets arranged?

 

[Shangas]

The only objection I would have is your assertion that felt hats can be worn during warmer months.

Take it from someone who lives in one of the hottest countries on earth, you don't want to wear a fur-felt hat in the middle of summer. You'll sweat buckets before you've taken a dozen steps. Felt hats should be for autumn and winter (possibly spring). Straw/Panama hats should be for warmer months.

 

[jlee562]

The only objection I would have is your assertion that felt hats can be worn during warmer months.

Take it from someone who lives in one of the hottest countries on earth, you don't want to wear a fur-felt hat in the middle of summer. You'll sweat buckets before you've taken a dozen steps. Felt hats should be for autumn and winter (possibly spring). Straw/Panama hats should be for warmer months.

The flip side of that is that not everyone lives in one of the hottest countries on earth. I wear felt hats all year round.

It simply depends on one's local climate.

 

[Woodfluter]

Reminds me of a quote an English professor once gave on learning how to write:

"Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly," Tenzin Gyatso, Dalai Lama

Yes! Exactly what I was (trying) to say. The best writers, IMO, understand not rules but expectations, and feel free to break them anywhere and everywhere that it works. And have the sense to know when it doesn't.

P.S.
+1 on the comments about climate. I've comfortably worn felt hats in the dry western US summer, at temperatures into the 90F range. And couldn't stand to have anything at all on my head in humid, southeastern summer weather in the high 70F range. If you're like most modern people and step out into the environment only between a car and a building, just doesn't matter. If you're out in nature, style be damned, it's a whole different calculation!

 

[Rabbit]

Yes! Exactly what I was (trying) to say. The best writers, IMO, understand not rules but expectations, and feel free to break them anywhere and everywhere that it works. And have the sense to know when it doesn't.

How true.
This very sense is difficult to explain or teach to other people. IMO it rather belongs to the category of "doing your homework".

On the other hand, it doesn't hurt to give a little nudge from time to time, so I wish you all the best with your project, wandering-trader‎.

 

[wandering-trader]

Thanks for the support, rabbit.

Should I change the "season" to "climate" or make "all year" -> "fall/winter"?

 

[Rabbit]

Thanks for the support, rabbit.

Should I change the "season" to "climate" or make "all year" -> "fall/winter"?

I would just leave it as it is. It does explain itself rather well. If one is talking about spring/summer and fall/winter seasons it's pretty obvious, for instance, that the classification isn't meant to apply to the tropical climate, which has its own "seasons".

 

[wandering-trader]

For stage 2 of the beginner section, I will add a hat size chart and how to measure for such.

For the intermediate level pages, I will add ribbon bow styles, types of each part of the hat, and fedora/derby formality by design.

Do you feel ribbon bow designs have a formality scale to them, or is it personal preference?
For the ribbon bow tree diagram here, I'm including material (cloth or grosgrain), position (right, left, back), and style (square, valley, standard, ...). Anything else I should include here?

How do you tell a bowler's or fedora's formality in regards to brim treatment, pinch style, crease...?

 

[Brad Bowers]

How do you tell a bowler's or fedora's formality in regards to brim treatment, pinch style, crease...?

In terms of formality, the only distinction that matters for Derbies is the color. In the nineteenth century, and at least into the first decade of the twentieth, the most formal Derby was brown. That just leaves grey and black. My best guess is that grey probably fell between brown and black in terms of formality. Black, being the most common, was also the least formal and most versatile.

There are other differences in Derby styling, including crown heights and varying degrees of roundedness to the dome, straight crown or belled, widths of brim, D'Orsay curls that are either more open or closed, and brims that curve or sweep upward more on the sides and downward in the front/back, or are more flat. Some of these styles varied by season, depending on what the manufacturers decided to push each season, and some, such as crown height and flatter brims, were more indicative of different eras in Derby history. Brim binding rarely varied, and most Derby manufacturers kept their ribbons within a sixteenth of an inch, or maybe an eighth at most, of being one inch wide wide. Anything wider was an extreme exception. Same with bow styles. Differences in brims and crowns were more a function of personal style, and had nothing to do with formality. Color was the measure of formality.

Brad

 

[mayserwegener]

What about this one?

Wouldn't it differ depending on country (Bowler, Melone, ect.) / time period / occupation / condition of hat / .............. / ..............?

 

[Brad Bowers]

What about this one?

Wouldn't it differ depending on country (Bowler, Melone, ect.) / time period / occupation / ..............?

It probably would, but I was only being specific to Derbies, meaning I'm only talking about the United States. My research has only focused on Derbies, and what went on overseas I leave for other researchers like yourself!

In the above hat, if you're referring to the finish and the contrasting binding, my guess is that in America it might make the hat less formal.

I really struggle with applying the term "formal" when talking about the Derby, because it crossed all social/class lines and was worn with nearly any clothing combination. It's certainly not formal in the same sense that the top hat or Homburg were considered formal. True, among the upper classes in certain parts of the United States there were social situations that dictated a Derby, but these were/are equestrian events. In all other situations, there really was no other formality hierarchy for the Derby beyond the brown Derby being considered the dressiest.

I make no distinction between "country," "town," and "western" Derbies, as many on the Lounge do, because I have found little to no evidence that manufacturers and retailers martketed them as such. These are artificial constructs that we here in the twenty-first century have placed upon Derbies because we like neat, organized categories. In reality, the differences we see are more a function of styles changing over time, with perhaps some regional inflections, rather than distinct subcategories aimed at specific markets. The only two distinctions that should be considered are Derbies for equestrian use, and Derbies for everything else.

Brad

 

[mayserwegener]

I knew you were addressing the Derby and specifically America. My point is the variables make it difficult to put together such a (general) guide.

 

[Brad Bowers]

My point is the variables make it difficult to put together such a guide.

Agreed!

Brad

 

[wandering-trader]

So for bowlers i'll say brown > gray > black in US, check your country's standards otherwise.

 

[mayserwegener]

USA = Derby

By the way I wore shorts + gray Fedora today.