The 'Golden Years' of Hat Quality & Style

[deadlyhandsome]

Looks like 1930s to 1940s is the clear leader. It’s also what I voted for. I wish I had the exposure to more earlier hats in my size to give a more informed opinion. I’ve seen some later 1950s hats that disappointed me and think that was the turning of the tide.

 

[mayserwegener]

The height of men's hat production + wearing was around 1900. Most types / styles were already present.

 

[Garrett]

Steve, your original vote of mid 19th century up to 1940 rings true in my book. Most members of this forum past & present, including respected hatters, have never handled an early 1900s Johann Hückel´s Söhne let alone one made in the latter half of the 19th century. Big name manufacturers, G.A. Dunn & Co among them, contracted with JHS to make some of their higher end hats such as the longhairs and velours. For me, the stuff coming out of Nový Jičín during the aforementioned period is the best earth has produced.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

I think it is not possible to establish a golden period of hat production in the world. The reasons are many and have to do with the internal and external market, the absorption in the markets of hats according to their price and consequently their quality. Then there are the factors that determine the taste of the market for the various types of finish and model. As for the Italian hat, the starting point was to work raw materials, intended as fur, not of first quality, therefore the skill of the hatters was to obtain high quality felt from any possible mixture and consequently find colors, shapes and finishes to make the hat competitive on the world market. Having been the largest producers and exporters of hats in the world we have experienced all seasons, up and down, of the headwear market. Is there a golden season of Italian production? No, because over the last hundred years there have been periods of excellence, such as low periods and then each of the historic manufacturers has had its ups and downs. And then, let's face it clearly, it depends on personal tastes, beyond the myths and urban legends

 

[T Jones]

I voted 1940s-1950s. It's not that I'm saying that was when hat making quality was at its peak, (although hats of that era were far and above higher quality than anything made today), it's just that the styles and quality between the 1940s-1950s are my personal favorite.

 

[mayserwegener]

Steve, your original vote of mid 19th century up to 1940 rings true in my book. Most members of this forum past & present, including respected hatters, have never handled an early 1900s Johann Hückel´s Söhne let alone one made in the latter half of the 19th century. Big name manufacturers, G.A. Dunn & Co among them, contracted with JHS to make some of their higher end hats such as the longhairs and velours. For me, the stuff coming out of Nový Jičín during the aforementioned period is the best earth has produced.

Garrett, That time period was definitely the height of hat making in my opinion. I am partial to Velour so I have to also agree on the second point.

 

[mayserwegener]

I think it is not possible to establish a golden period of hat production in the world. The reasons are many and have to do with the internal and external market, the absorption in the markets of hats according to their price and consequently their quality. Then there are the factors that determine the taste of the market for the various types of finish and model. As for the Italian hat, the starting point was to work raw materials, intended as fur, not of first quality, therefore the skill of the hatters was to obtain high quality felt from any possible mixture and consequently find colors, shapes and finishes to make the hat competitive on the world market. Having been the largest producers and exporters of hats in the world we have experienced all seasons, up and down, of the headwear market. Is there a golden season of Italian production? No, because over the last hundred years there have been periods of excellence, such as low periods and then each of the historic manufacturers has had its ups and downs. And then, let's face it clearly, it depends on personal tastes, beyond the myths and urban legends

Daniele, Great points! My remark was in general regarding production. There was also the massive men's Wool hat market / production which never crossed to America.

 

[Just Daniel]

I think you guys have a great point, the markets are very different in styles and geography.

Those are great points, but what is your favorite decade? Can you choose?

I think it is not possible to establish a golden period of hat production in the world. The reasons are many and have to do with the internal and external market, the absorption in the markets of hats according to their price and consequently their quality. Then there are the factors that determine the taste of the market for the various types of finish and model. As for the Italian hat, the starting point was to work raw materials, intended as fur, not of first quality, therefore the skill of the hatters was to obtain high quality felt from any possible mixture and consequently find colors, shapes and finishes to make the hat competitive on the world market. Having been the largest producers and exporters of hats in the world we have experienced all seasons, up and down, of the headwear market. Is there a golden season of Italian production? No, because over the last hundred years there have been periods of excellence, such as low periods and then each of the historic manufacturers has had its ups and downs. And then, let's face it clearly, it depends on personal tastes, beyond the myths and urban legends

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Daniele, Great points! My remark was in general regarding production. There was also the massive men's Wool hat market / production which never crossed to America.

Certainly Steve in the first thirty years of the last century most of the hats produced had a semi-handmade manufacture, even those of the lowest price, therefore the quality was assured. Labor was cheap and the hatters' guild was, at least here in Italy, an important stratum in the national economy. I mentioned the average, if not mediocre raw material used here to make hats precisely to highlight that wool was, especially in the years mentioned above, the basic material with which excellent hats were made. Starting from the desire to innovate Italian hats, it has made giant steps and continued until recent years to churn out high quality hats precisely because of the craftsmanship and know-how of the workers, but it is a world that tends to wear out slowly with a severe loss of knowledge in the art of making hats, as it was in much of Europe. The situation is different in the USA where industrialization has supplanted any residue of craftsmanship at least sixty years ago.

I think you guys have a great point, the markets are very different in styles and geography.

Those are great points, but what is your favorite decade? Can you choose?

Tell me Daniel how can I choose and how you can choose if we have only a few examples of hats belonging to a specific era and which probably belong to the production of a country. How can we compare them? With what elements can we judge? And how are our tastes regarding hats? For me there are interesting hats in every era, at least among European ones, of American production I have very little knowledge and therefore I cannot talk about them.

 

[T Jones]

Certainly Steve in the first thirty years of the last century most of the hats produced had a semi-handmade manufacture, even those of the lowest price, therefore the quality was assured. Labor was cheap and the hatters' guild was, at least here in Italy, an important stratum in the national economy. I mentioned the average, if not mediocre raw material used here to make hats precisely to highlight that wool was, especially in the years mentioned above, the basic material with which excellent hats were made. Starting from the desire to innovate Italian hats, it has made giant steps and continued until recent years to churn out high quality hats precisely because of the craftsmanship and know-how of the workers, but it is a world that tends to wear out slowly with a severe loss of knowledge in the art of making hats, as it was in much of Europe. The situation is different in the USA where industrialization has supplanted any residue of craftsmanship at least sixty years ago.


Tell me Daniel how can I choose and how you can choose if we have only a few examples of hats belonging to a specific era and which probably belong to the production of a country. How can we compare them? With what elements can we judge? And how are our tastes regarding hats? For me there are interesting hats in every era, at least among European ones, of American production I have very little knowledge and therefore I cannot talk about them.

Well, U.S. made vintage hats, (especially hats that were made in the 1950s and before), were of excellent quality, from the felts, the dye quality, the ribbon material, the leather sweats, the liners, and every aspect of the art and science of hat making. Unfortunately, though, hat making here is a lost art in this modern era.
Here's a '50s era Dobbs Fifth Avenue that I had the pleasure of reworking. The felt and dye quality is some of the best I ever handled. I have a vintage Borsalino Alessandra and this Dobbs is every bit, in every way, equal to the Borsa in quality. They don't make 'em like they use to.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Well, U.S. made vintage hats, (especially hats that were made in the 1950s and before), were of excellent quality, from the felts, the dye quality, the ribbon material, the leather sweats, the liners, and every aspect of the art and science of hat making. Unfortunately, though, hat making here is a lost art in this modern era.
Here's a '50s era Dobbs Fifth Avenue that I had the pleasure of reworking. The felt and dye quality is some of the best I ever handled. I have a vintage Borsalino Alessandra and this Dobbs is every bit, in every way, equal to the Borsa in quality. They don't make 'em like they use to.

Sometimes hand made or hand work doesn’t equate to better. Occasionally, it’s just the opposite. There are lots of things that machines and computers can do better than humans; tighter tolerances etc. The old high-end cars of the 1920s and ‘30s Had some exquisite hand work. However, as exquisite as some of that hand work was they were still unreliable and in need of constant repairs. Just the fact that something becomes mechanized or automated does not mean quality always goes down.

 

[T Jones]

Sometimes hand made or hand work doesn’t equate to better. Occasionally, it’s just the opposite. There are lots of things that machines and computers can do better than humans; tighter tolerances etc. The old high-end cars of the 1920s and ‘30s Had some exquisite hand work. However, as exquisite as some of that hand work was they were still unreliable and in need of constant repairs. Just the fact that something becomes mechanized or automated does not mean quality always goes down.

Yup. I can definitely agree with that.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Well, U.S. made vintage hats, (especially hats that were made in the 1950s and before), were of excellent quality, from the felts, the dye quality, the ribbon material, the leather sweats, the liners, and every aspect of the art and science of hat making. Unfortunately, though, hat making here is a lost art in this modern era.
Here's a '50s era Dobbs Fifth Avenue that I had the pleasure of reworking. The felt and dye quality is some of the best I ever handled. I have a vintage Borsalino Alessandra and this Dobbs is every bit, in every way, equal to the Borsa in quality. They don't make 'em like they use to.

Hello, I repeat that I have no knowledge of USA hats. I have three: a modern beaver Stetson, a Winchester rabbit Gannon and a 1950s Cavanagh homburg, how can I make comparisons? Therefore what I can say in my preferences concerns only European hats which I know very well. I am limited to my geographical position and to the production that I know best, in order, Italian, French and Central Europe. Of these three I love French hats from before and immediately after the Second World War, I don't have a defined period of Central European hats because they have made quality hats over the years and still some hats (Tonak) are of excellent quality. The Italian hat I have excellent examples of hats up to the 2000s, increasingly rare, but the tradition has been perpetuated even in dark times. Now we are at the end of a tradition where some Borsalino models, the only living manufacturer, are still of excellent quality.

Sometimes hand made or hand work doesn’t equate to better. Occasionally, it’s just the opposite. There are lots of things that machines and computers can do better than humans; tighter tolerances etc. The old high-end cars of the 1920s and ‘30s Had some exquisite hand work. However, as exquisite as some of that hand work was they were still unreliable and in need of constant repairs. Just the fact that something becomes mechanized or automated does not mean quality always goes down.

Brent we are talking about hats and not about precision mechanics or special production. When you can find a computer that can produce a hat from start to finish and the result is excellent give me a whistle and I will be happy to see the progress of the technique.
Meanwhile, the quality in hats is still in the hands of those who work them and in their ability to apply techniques and processes that have settled over time.
You are always looking for hatters who use their hands, more or less well, this depends on their personal skills, master knowledge of the subject. Or not?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hello, I repeat that I have no knowledge of USA hats. I have three: a modern beaver Stetson, a Winchester rabbit Gannon and a 1950s Cavanagh homburg, how can I make comparisons? Therefore what I can say in my preferences concerns only European hats which I know very well. I am limited to my geographical position and to the production that I know best, in order, Italian, French and Central Europe. Of these three I love French hats from before and immediately after the Second World War, I don't have a defined period of Central European hats because they have made quality hats over the years and still some hats (Tonak) are of excellent quality. The Italian hat I have excellent examples of hats up to the 2000s, increasingly rare, but the tradition has been perpetuated even in dark times. Now we are at the end of a tradition where some Borsalino models, the only living manufacturer, are still of excellent quality.


Brent we are talking about hats and not about precision mechanics or special production. When you can find a computer that can produce a hat from start to finish and the result is excellent give me a whistle and I will be happy to see the progress of the technique.
Meanwhile, the quality in hats is still in the hands of those who work them and in their ability to apply techniques and processes that have settled over time.
You are always looking for hatters who use their hands, more or less well, this depends on their personal skills, master knowledge of the subject. Or not?

I’m mostly in agreement with you. However, a powered crown iron, exact temperature controlled irons, etc. do, I think, make better hats. I think that a masters touch is still a needed component to a top-tier hat, but hat making did benefit from the industrial revolution.

 

[T Jones]

I’m mostly in agreement with you. However, a powered crown iron, exact temperature controlled irons, etc. do, I think, make better hats. I think that a masters touch is still a needed component to a top-tier hat, but hat making did benefit from the industrial revolution.

I put my hats together by hand, but I can say this much, if ever I have the financial opportunity to buy some specialized machinery for hatting, I'll be jumping all over it. Handmade doesn't always mean, "better", and industrialization doesn't always equate to a bad product. What makes a bad product are corporate decisions that sacrifice all around quality for quicker and bigger profits.

 

[Just Daniel]

“Of these three I love French hats from before and immediately after the Second World War;”.

Ooh. Very interesting! A great period I know little about; I have only one French hat (and that one I bought from you). I often look for a few brands of French hats, I’ll give them a closer look. Sools here I come!