The general decline in standards today

[C-dot]

Also, perhaps you mean better for you? My husband went on to become a decorated US Marine. I think it taught him to not expect much in the form of cushy treatment from his employer.

That's a good lesson to take from it lol It's also the reason why I personally can't imagine anyone, circumstances aside, freely choosing to work there. You get treated terribly by every part time employer when you're a student, so you may as well work in a nice store.

 

[LizzieMaine]

McDonald's is a big step up from KFC, according to the kids around town here. Of course, the really smart, ambitious kids work in independent movie theatres. (And I don't treat them terribly!)

 

[HeyMoe]

You should always give your all at work, you never know who's looking and who it's going to get back to.

Agreed 100%, my parents and the Army taught me that and at my current job I have had two promotions in three years (length of time between the last two promotions was 9 months) ending up in management because I walk in to work every day with the attitude that no job in the building is beneath me. I am on call 24-7-365. No big deal as most of the calls can be handled from wherever I am at. But if I need to go in, I go in. With the recent hurricane up here, it is not uncommon for me to put in a 70+ hour work week and I walk into the door the next morning with a smile and ready to tackle the day.

 

[Widebrim]

Agreed 100%, my parents and the Army taught me that and at my current job I have had two promotions in three years (length of time between the last two promotions was 9 months) ending up in management because I walk in to work every day with the attitude that no job in the building is beneath me. I am on call 24-7-365. No big deal as most of the calls can be handled from wherever I am at. But if I need to go in, I go in. With the recent hurricane up here, it is not uncommon for me to put in a 70+ hour work week and I walk into the door the next morning with a smile and ready to tackle the day.

One thing that I learned many years ago in the Army was to never say that it can't be done. I've tried to hold on to that credo throughout the rest of my life, even when circumstances seemed to point to the contrary.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

McDonald's is a big step up from KFC, according to the kids around town here. Of course, the really smart, ambitious kids work in independent movie theatres. (And I don't treat them terribly!)

n Actually the managers of a McDonalds can make fairly good wages. There is a business course all managers are required to take. There are people right now in "powerful" positions within the government, that would not and do not qualify to run a McDonalds, do not qualify to be in the training program... I cannot name any names or I would be violating the rules on the site about politics......you can figure it out if you tried......

 

[jamespowers]

A friend of mine was complaining to me last Friday about a particular case of no standards. While in a parking lot, he found a parking place but the car next to it had the door open. So he waited without blowing the horn etc. Just waited. He finally parked after the door was closed. The woman who was driving the car proceeded to berate him for some kind of "disrespecting" thing.
Needless to say he handed her her head but he was just waiting only to be attacked by a crazy woman who should have simply told her daughter to close the door so he could park.
My favorite line he related was the woman telling him that he wouldn't talk to her that way if "her man" was there. He said: "If your man was here, I wouldn't have to talk to you---he would have told you to shut up and close the door already." :rofl:

 

[JohnnyLoco]

There just seems to be a general lack of pride in work, business, community, country, family, personal appearance, religious or ethical lifestyles.

While we can sit here and toast and tip our collective hats to the past and weep over the present generation.

 

[sheeplady]

There has been a time period, have to really think about it, but from 2002 up to 2004, I was working each day of the year and of course, on Xmas, I would stop to see family, but would be right back at working. Not a single day of time off. I had motive, however, as my commercial building company was really going full blast at the time.

See- and that is different- you benefited directly from working everyday. Your company grew. It is much harder to work everyday without any reward. No promotions, pay cuts, and benefits reduced or taken away.

This is not about coming in 2 hours early and staying 2 hours late or volunteering for extra shifts. It's about taking advantage of people who are your employees. You can't push people to work 14 hour days, 7 days a week, and not give them better than a job with shrinking pay and benefits. It is neither ethical or smart.

 

[LizzieMaine]

 

[jamespowers]

See- and that is different- you benefited directly from working everyday. Your company grew. It is much harder to work everyday without any reward. No promotions, pay cuts, and benefits reduced or taken away.

This is not about coming in 2 hours early and staying 2 hours late or volunteering for extra shifts. It's about taking advantage of people who are your employees. You can't push people to work 14 hour days, 7 days a week, and not give them better than a job with shrinking pay and benefits. It is neither ethical or smart.

This is all true but in our current economic climate it is reality in the sense that if you aren't willing to do it then someone else who has been unemployed for over a year will. Many of my friends are taking the extra work while they can get it. Some pay is better than nothing.
Back when my grandfathers were both working in foundries, that was about the same situation mthey faced.[huh]:eusa_doh:

 

[LoveMyHats2]

See- and that is different- you benefited directly from working everyday. Your company grew. It is much harder to work everyday without any reward. No promotions, pay cuts, and benefits reduced or taken away.

This is not about coming in 2 hours early and staying 2 hours late or volunteering for extra shifts. It's about taking advantage of people who are your employees. You can't push people to work 14 hour days, 7 days a week, and not give them better than a job with shrinking pay and benefits. It is neither ethical or smart.

You are correct and yes, it was hard for me to do things that way. However what I normally do when building is very much an extension of the "artist" part of me. I create things design wise while building, show my ideas to the job owner and run with it. I enjoy what I do. I also dislike what I call, cookie cutter building. Too darn plain.

 

[sheeplady]

This is all true but in our current economic climate it is reality in the sense that if you aren't willing to do it then someone else who has been unemployed for over a year will. Many of my friends are taking the extra work while they can get it. Some pay is better than nothing.
Back when my grandfathers were both working in foundries, that was about the same situation mthey faced.[huh]:eusa_doh:

Exactly. Unfortunately, if the economy ever picks up, these companies are going to lose a massive amount of employees who are dedicated and hard workers. If I felt that my employer wasn't appreciative of what I did- the other things I put off in order to work 80-100 hour weeks (and I would state here that there are ways to be appreciative other than money) I'd be gone the minute I had another opportunity. There are numerous studies that say that people would be willing to make significant less money in order to work a little bit less.

The problem is that the 60+ hour work week has become standard for many in white collar jobs, and it is expected that you work at least 60 hours every week. On vacation, the weekends, etc. you are expected to always be reachable and checking your devices multiple times a day. Often people are expected to come in during their vacation days (not just on weekends, but actual vacation time). And there is a culture in the US that seems to say "Well, at least you're making more than minimum so suck it up and take it." "At least you have vacation time." While some of that point is valid (yes, these people should be thankful they have decent jobs in this economy) it misses the big picture that these expectations are unethical and unfair (particularly for those in jobs where the pay is relatively low and opportunities for advancement are next to nothing).

"At least you have a job, suck it up buttercup" does not endear people to an employer.

 

[jamespowers]

"At least you have a job, suck it up buttercup" does not endear people to an employer.

True but when the economy gets better they will just have to find someone else.
I know I'll be outta here.

 

[Fletch]

"At least you have a job, suck it up buttercup" does not endear people to an employer.

Unfortunately we are rapidly becoming Buttercup Nation. Managers long ago realized that good will is just a fudge factor on a balance sheet. They just can't afford to pretend otherwise any longer.

 

[PoohBang]

[video=youtube;3Mw9F5zawRQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mw9F5zawRQ[/video]

 

[jamespowers]

[video=youtube;3Mw9F5zawRQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Mw9F5zawRQ[/video]

Performed in San Franfreako every night somewhere.

 

[scooter]

I am following this conversation with interest. I am a union employee who in past years, never saw the point of unions. However, after having my job saved by the union last year, I have a new appreciation for their efforts. I will stipulate that sometimes the union asks for more than is completely reasonable, in terms of wages and some benefits. Unfortunately, the reverse is true of non-union employers. They have a penchant of offering far less than is reasonable, in terms of wages and benefits. It is a conundrum that seems to work as a pendulum. In days past, the employers enjoyed all the power and abused their employees. Then along came the unions and the pendulum started to swing in the opposite direction.

People today, seem to be significantly anti-union in many areas, but they forget that had employers treated their people fairly and honorably, there would never have been a need for unions. The "bean counters" are running our society and to them, NOTHING matters but the bottom line. My wife worked honorably and professionally at her job for ten years. One day in early December, they called her in for a "meeting", handed her a check and told her they didn't need her anymore. They gave her job to a low wage hourly employee without the skill set she brought to the table. All this in the name of trimming the budget. Seems to me, one of the big problems today is employers DEMAND absolute loyalty from employees, but feel NO responsibility to return that loyalty. Unions are a tool to see that employees receive reasonable and fair treatment by employers who otherwise would view us as easily replaceable components.

 

[scooter]

To illustrate my point, I once worked for a company that originated in PA. In that state, they were union and paid pretty fair wages. They cast their eye down the road a piece, and discovered that NC was a "right to work" state, (I think of it as a "right to work for nothing" state) so they relocated the entire company. I was hired by the new company after their relocation and was promoted twice, eventually being made a supervisor. The key to this scenario, after two promotions and being made a supervisor, I wasn't making $7 dollars an hour.

In the job previous to that, I saw men and women earning $5.75 per hour and trying to support a family. If they complained, they were told there were 100 men in the parking lot who would kill to have that job, so shut up and get to work. The sad thing is, they were right as NC's politicians are adamant about keeping NC a non-union state.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I'm in a similar boat. I'm a Union Member and found ours to be pointless until another local plant who thought the same chased their union out. Their wages dropped from 16 bucks an hour to about 9 bucks an hour. I'm happy to be a Union Member, especially with the economy like it is. It's been tough on us in general, as it has with everyone else. Our family business, besides guns is real-estate development. We have the next phase of our sub-division on hold until things get better.

I am following this conversation with interest. I am a union employee who in past years, never saw the point of unions. However, after having my job saved by the union last year, I have a new appreciation for their efforts. I will stipulate that sometimes the union asks for more than is completely reasonable, in terms of wages and some benefits. Unfortunately, the reverse is true of non-union employers. They have a penchant of offering far less than is reasonable, in terms of wages and benefits. It is a conundrum that seems to work as a pendulum. In days past, the employers enjoyed all the power and abused their employees. Then along came the unions and the pendulum started to swing in the opposite direction.

People today, seem to be significantly anti-union in many areas, but they forget that had employers treated their people fairly and honorably, there would never have been a need for unions. The "bean counters" are running our society and to them, NOTHING matters but the bottom line. My wife worked honorably and professionally at her job for ten years. One day in early December, they called her in for a "meeting", handed her a check and told her they didn't need her anymore. They gave her job to a low wage hourly employee without the skill set she brought to the table. All this in the name of trimming the budget. Seems to me, one of the big problems today is employers DEMAND absolute loyalty from employees, but feel NO responsibility to return that loyalty. Unions are a tool to see that employees receive reasonable and fair treatment by employers who otherwise would view us as easily replaceable components.

 

[PoohBang]

Tom, didn't they try to get rid of unions in Wisconsin?