The general decline in standards today

[LizzieMaine]

Just as it is when driving a car, I would hope that before anyone is issued a gun permit/license, there would be training which would include the psychological aspects or owning and carrying a gun. Education makes a difference. Requiring gun owners to take refresher courses every couple of years couldn't hurt, either. As Ben Parker said, 'With great power comes great responsibility.' Training should be mandatory for the privilege of possessing great power.

I absolutely agree. I actually took a gun safety course many years ago -- I had no plans to own a gun at the time, but I live in a state where most everybody has a rifle or shotgun around the house, and I figured it was smart to know something about them. I now have a .38 in my nightstand -- there was a serial rapist loose in the area a couple years ago, and I was taking no chances -- and I at least know how to use it properly. But even with that, I can't say that I *know* how I'd react if I *had to* use it. I don't think any of us do until that moment comes.

 

[Andykev]

Oddly, some have said this was a "conspiracy". The suspect couldn't have financed all this alone. Rubbish.

He did act alone. He planned it for months. Financing? Most of us have credit cards with $5000-$10000 credit limit. (I have one much higher). Bet they discover his credit card was maxed out.

It is human nature to discount how one person can change history, and do such terrible things. It was a lone gunman who shot Gabriel Giffords in Arizona in broad daylight with a handgun with high capacity magazine. That guy was a nut job. So was our Aurora killer.

As far as "taking him out"....it would have been almost impossible in the situation. The killer had all the advantages, smoke bombs, a rifle and shotgun... Even an off duty cop with his .40 pistol would likely not have stopped this guy with the Kevlar vest.

A "bullet proof" vest stops handgun ammo. A shotgun slug would drive the slug and the Kevlar panel several inches into your body cavity. Severe blunt force, even if no penetration of the slug. A rifle would have stopped the suspect with one shot. Vests don't stop rifle rounds.
But who would have had a rifle with them in the movie theater?

The Bank of America, Hollywood robbery (they made a documentary on TV recreating this)..the cops had handguns and shotguns with buckshot only (no slugs). No rifles. The bad guys had full auto AK-47's. Today, virtually all police and sheriff patrol officers train with and carry .223 rifles.

This Aurora killer is a deranged person who booby-trapped his apartment with sophisticated explosives. He endangered all his neighbors, the responding firemen, and police. This killer somehow fell into the dark world of evil fantasy and role played the violence from films.

Perhaps we have too much violence in the film and entertainment industry? Every year, new movies become more spectacular as they "improve" over prior films. Perhaps it fuels some people, who copycat, and are unable to discern between fantasy and reality.

 

[sheeplady]

This Aurora killer is a deranged person who booby-trapped his apartment with sophisticated explosives. He endangered all his neighbors, the responding firemen, and police. This killer somehow fell into the dark world of evil fantasy and role played the violence from films.

To me, this is the most disturbing part of this. Most of the killers who create such massive tragedies plan on committing suicide at the end of their plan; they don't booby trap their home and run. He obviously knew he was going to get caught (or at least they would trace it to him eventually) and wanted to inflict the most damage possible. It seems to put him in a totally different class of murders and if he has a mental illness, it is probably much different than most of these cases I have previously heard about. He seems (to my novice and amateur mind) that he is more of a serial killer who likes to hear about his famous self than someone dealing with massive depression looking to be to commit suicide by cop and gain a "gory reputation" along the way.

As far as the money issue, he was a doctoral student in a medical school up until a month ago. That meant while he wasn't earning a huge wage, he was probably doing better than the average doctoral student, as he was working for a medical school (they pay their doctoral students better than other schools). He was also living in a location that probably has a relatively medium cost of living (which is how schools determine base pay.) I imagine he made somewhere's between $20-35,000 a year, depending upon what he did and if he worked a 9 month or 12 month schedule. If he worked full time during the summers, I'd imagine the higher end of that range. That is certainly enough to get a few decent credit cards and enough cash to outright purchase things. Given the fact that they know where he purchased things so quickly, that suggests credit cards.

 

[sheeplady]

Also, what I find really disturbing about all this is he received all these packages through his school. If I started getting more than one package every week or two, I'd at least set off the alarm bells about misusing staff time. They are not there just to take and hold your packages all day long. Yet alone if the packages said things like "flammable" or came from an online ammunition retailer.

And he was apparently on an NIH grant (National Institute of Health) so he was most likely employed 12 months with full time work in the summers. Which would mean that he was on the high side of the pay scale I listed before. $30,000 a year is enough to pay for an attack like this with some credit cards.

 

[Flicka]

I'm clearly in the minority, but when I see something like this, my first reaction is not that what the world needs is more guns and violence.

 

[jamespowers]

I'm clearly in the minority, but when I see something like this, my first reaction is not that what the world needs is more guns and violence.

What the world needs is less crazy people who are intent on hurting others---regardless of what they use.

 

[Andykev]

Here is a "Letter to the Editor"...sums up this quite accurately.

Dear Editor,
The shooting in Aurora, Colorado was tragic and scary at the same time. The knee-jerk reaction of the news media is to blame guns and the solution in its view is more gun control.
Guns do play a role, but looking at the life of the shooter, and how the media and the public reacts to such mass killings, the root cause is deeper than the existence of guns in our country.
I think the rise in mass killings better correlates with the increasing violence the entertainment industry has been stuffing in its movies, TV shows and video games the past 40 years.
You can’t turn on the TV or go to a movie and not see guns being used in all sorts of ways to gruesomely kill someone.
Here is a list of the hand guns used in the movie Dark Night Rises:
Beretta 92SB-C, Beretta 92FS,Beretta 92FS Inox, Glock 17, Glock 17 (Converted to full-auto), Glock 26, Walther P99, Smith & Wesson 5904, SIG-Sauer P226, SIG Pro SP 2009, SIG-Sauer P229, Colt Police Positive, Colt Anaconda, Smith & Wesson Model 19 Snub, Smith & Wesson Model 36, Smith & Wesson Model 64, Smith & Wesson Model 10, Smith & Wesson Model 15.
Rifles:
AKMSU, M16A2, M4A1 Carbine, Remington Model 700PSS, Blaser 93, M1 Garand, Ruger Mini-14.
Submachine guns:
Heckler & Koch MP5A2, Heckler & Koch MP5A3, Skorpion SA Vz, IMI Mini Uzi, IMI Uzi, Beretta PM12S, Smith & Wesson M76, Ingram MAC-10.
Shotguns:
Remington 870 Sawed-off, Remington 870, Double Barrel Shotgun, Mossberg 500, Mossberg 590 and the Mossberg 590 Cruiser.
Other weapons were used in the movie (grenades, bomb guns, mini-guns), but I think you’ve got the point. Dark Night Rises is typical of such action movies today.
It isn’t only the bad guys doing the killing either. Often it is the good guys and their killing is glamorized most every time. If you feed society on-screen violence long enough and glamorize most of it, some individuals will choose to play that out in real life.
While the entertainment industry shoulders much of the blame, the news media plays a part too. The media covers stories of mass murder like no other. The more tragic, bloody and painful the killing spree, the longer and deeper their coverage. We’ll all know everything about the killer, James Holmes, after the media is through giving every aspect of his life 24-7 coverage. To a deranged person, there isn’t much difference between fame and infamy – they seek the spotlight.
Finally, society craves the news coverage. Too many find it titillating to hear about how the killer did it, how he prepared for the spree, about the pain and sorrow and millions are hanging on every new twist of the unfolding story.
Today a Agatha Christie murder mystery isn’t enough for most. Viewers want real life murder stories. When they aren’t unfolding in the news, the networks re-run old one on shows like 48 Hours or Dateline, with real killers, real victims, real bloodshed and real cops woven together in a suspenseful account of death Agatha Christie could not write.
Now if you were a psychologist and a patient came in your office exhibiting these characteristics or craving such things, would you say he is healthy? Obviously not.
That’s the state of the collective mind of America today. Unhealthy, and it is getting worse thanks to the entertainment industry, the news media and a public not smart enough to know how harmful all this is.
Alex Saitta

 

[Flicka]

What the world needs is less crazy people who are intent on hurting others---regardless of what they use.

I agree.

 

[hatophile]

The fact of the matter is, if someone wants to kill people they will find a way to do it. This guy was obviously trying to
Get as many as possible.

 

[John in Covina]

We don't actually have a policy on concealed weapons, but I think one of the results of this incident is that very soon all theatres will be required to refuse admission to anyone who's carrying a weapon, even if they have a permit. And I'd have no problem with that at all -- a theatre is private property, not public, and you are there at the implied invitation of the management, an invitation which may be revoked at any time for any reason.

How many people are quite sure that if the theater in Colorado had such a policy the gunman would have thought twice and gone home?

 

[jamespowers]

How many people are quite sure that if the theater in Colorado had such a policy the gunman would have thought twice and gone home?

Actually, two years ago they passed a law that made it illegal to concealed carry into theatres and restaurants. That worked.....:eusa_doh:

 

[John in Covina]

The lone killer that killed the most people in the US used gasoline and burned down a nightclub. ( Ithink it was in NJ.) In this type of a situation it is more about how motivated the person is.

The guy is deranged but capable of planning. The use of body armour suggests he knew he might get shot and wanted to protect himself. These are circumstances that show deliberate actions with thoughts as to consiquences.

 

[jamespowers]

The lone killer that killed the most people in the US used gasoline and burned down a nightclub. ( Ithink it was in NJ.) In this type of a situation it is more about how motivated the person is.

The guy is deranged but capable of planning. The use of body armour suggests he knew he might get shot and wanted to protect himself. These are circumstances that show deliberate actions with thoughts as to consiquences.

The nut also had the forethought to take Vicodin for any ensuing pain. This was premeditated to the extreme.

 

[Andykev]

This is the killer, with orange hair. He was immersed in "Batman" and in his mind was acting out the movie, in real life.

I'm not a psychiatrist, but the photo of the killer at his first court appearance speaks volumes.

There is simply too much violence being glorified in TV, Film, and the news. It seems each new film has to
top the last in shock effects. What does this do to people? Reinforce the concept that what they see in
movies is exciting and glorious?

Piece by piece, bit by bit, ever increasing violence, drugs, bad behavior, making heroes out of thieves and cheats....
it "raises the bar" of our collective conscious. We become accustomed to things which our parents and grandparents
never thought of.

 

[AmateisGal]

I'm already tired of seeing his picture splashed over every news website. We don't need to see it here, too...

 

[Undertow]

One issue I take with this line of discussion is that we fail to recall a number of points:
1. No one in the news or in the public glorifies these happenings.
2. 24/7 news coverage is only as effective in relaying a message to you if you a.) read/watch that news and b.) do so when they are running that article.
3. This isn't the first, second or 100th time a newspaper has given grisly details regarding the murder of innocents - and in fact, that has been standard news practice up until the Vietnam war.

Is there too much violence in movies? Probably. But we can't claim there's "too much" violence in video games because there's no contrast; those are a relatively new media. And there is just as much violence in books, and in real life, as any other period of history.

And let us not forget the Romans' bloodlust...

 

[Angus Forbes]

One thing that normal people can do is to boycott violent movies. Enough is enough. Just stop going to see the stinking things, and send our friends in Hollywood (etc.) a message that they will understand. Probably preaching to the choir here . . .

 

[AmateisGal]

I don't know that the media has always been so "in" the victims' faces, though. There is no shred of privacy for these grieving people.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'm beginning to think it's not just too much violence in media, although that's certainly not a good thing. I'm becoming more and more convinced that it's *too much media* period. Children are immersed in media before they're old enough to process it properly, in ways that those of us raised thirty or forty or more years ago never were. And we haven't even begun to understand what that does to the development of the human brain. I think the more "plugged in" we become as a society the more of this kind of aberration we're going to see -- the human mind was never meant to function in a constant, unrelenting state of sensory overload.

 

[Angus Forbes]

I am puzzled -- what kind of a demented cretin would take his children to a midnight showing of a Batman movie?