The Gender Thread, vive la difference!

[vitanola]

He'd get a grapefruit facial if he tried that around here.

"You know, I call my girl 'Grapefruit'."

"Why's that?"

"Every time I try to squeeze her she hits me in the eye!"

 

[scottyrocks]

Re the toilet seat: I don't sleep through the night due to various reasons. When I stumble into the bathroom at an ungodly hour, there is just as much chance of me taking an unexpected sitz bath as anyone else. It's just easier to always put the seat down. Then everyone is happy.

 

[Fading Fast]

The idea that "mansplaining" is something unique to men is a ridiculous concept. If I had a nickel for every time a woman condescendingly explained to me how to boil water, when I've been in the kitchen every night for close to half a century, I'd have a lot of nickels. I usually ask them if they know what a meripoix is, and they get the message pretty quick. Not to mention the well documented public perception that men are just big dumb galoots who need to be led around by the nose or they'll hurt themselves (see any US family sitcom or fabric commercial). People are people, and the idea that only one side is guilty of something is not correct.

But in fact, it's documented that we do think and perceive the world differently. However, thank goodness those differences are complementary. Put a good man and a good woman together shouldering their way through life, and they can be unstoppable.

I learned today that you can only "like" something once on Fedora Lounge - otherwise, I'd have registered ten likes for this one.

Thankfully not so much now, but years ago, women were often accused of "nagging" when they were expressing their views that ran counter to a man's. It was/is an obnoxious and sexists way to shut down someone's viewpoint. I see "mansplaining" in the same category.

Are there some women who nag, yup; some men who nag, yup; some men who mansplain, yup; some women who womansplain, yup - but using either term is still obnoxious and sexist as they are intended to be condescending and they implicitly ascribe a negative trait to only one gender that some in both genders have.

 

[GHT]

Does the love of your life ever leave a single tissue on the toilet roll? I've done that! My snoring used to drive my missus in sane, not anymore. The pain in my left hip, causes me to fidget, she's very sympathetic about this and promises me that the hip replacement, when it comes, will cure that pain once and for all. The spin off for her though is that I volunteered to sleep in another room for now, so that I can fidget away without disturbing her, and of course, snore my head off.

Do you leave your keys lying around, she was forever losing her car/house keys, so much so that I had a small key holder cabinet made where all our keys live when not in use. Doesn't stop her leaving her phone, goodness knows where. We even found it in the airing cupboard once, she had been talking to her sister as she was putting the clean sheets away, put the phone down and left it there. And her poor punctuality is legendary, we are forever dashing to this, that or the other venue, then on arrival find that there are no seats left. I put her punctuality, or lack of it, down to the fact that she's not a morning person. She needs tea and solitude for the first hour, something that I take very seriously. Just as previously, it was the kiss of death if I ever said: "Time of the month?"

 

[LizzieMaine]

There was never any mystique or delicate evasiveness about "time of the month" in our household. Ma kept her sanitary belt hanging on the bathroom doorknob, and when we noticed it was missing we knew from a very young age to stay out of her way. When we asked her what was wrong she replied "Oh, you'll find out." And she was right.

As far as gripes about the male sex, I'll say that in the twelve years I've been working closely with young people, I've found that late-teenage/early twenties boys who can work well in a customer-service environment tend to be extremely rare. They're either swaggering pests to the girls they work with, or they labor under the delusion that they're Vulcans, and stand there stone-faced and completely impassive when dealing with other staff and customers -- which in an entertainment-oriented workplace is not what you need. And both types are, to be blunt, far less reliable and responsible than girls of the same age -- you can never be entirely confident that they'll show up when they're supposed to and you have to follow them around to make sure they do the tasks they've been assigned.

There have been exceptions, but only two, among all the kids I've had in my little groups over the years. Some of the girls have been handfuls in their own ways, but they tend to be more dependable, more responsible, and have more outgoing personalities than the boys.

 

[MisterCairo]

The idea that "mansplaining" is something unique to men is a ridiculous concept.

I see "mansplaining" in the same category.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think a better explanation of "mansplaination" might be my niece's experience. She suffers from chronic and severe endometriosis -- a disorder which can only be experienced by women -- and spent several years being dismissed and patronized by a succession of male doctors who considered her an annoying hypochondriac: "You'll be fine, this is perfectly normal, some people just have hard periods -- pat-pat-pat-on-the-head -- just take a couple of Midol" -- until she finally collapsed and nearly died. When a man declines to listen to what a woman is saying out of her own experience, and in fact talks right over her, because the dear little ladies are just so *emotional* -- as was the repeated case in my nieces's circumstance -- is prime "mansplaination."

I've been on the receiving end of some pretty choice "mansplainations" myself, including the one where the gent in question lectured me using material from an article I myself had written. I don't get angry or aggressive when it happens, because there are more important things these days to get angry and aggressive about. But I do roll my eyes. "Oh those men, amiright?"

Women have always been aware of this when it happens, but up until recently there wasn't a specific name for it. When we experienced it we'd always shoot a side glance and eye-roll in the direction of any other woman who might have overheard it as a sign of "yeh, been there, heard that, oooweeee" as the man walked away congratulating himself for being so smart.

 

[Fading Fast]

I was "mansplained" years ago by a female ear, nose and throat specialist that my chronic sinus infections were "nothing" and "a probably bit psychosomatic," but the next ear, nose and throat surgeon identified the problem, operated and I haven't had an infection since (and the insurance company, which hates to pay for anything, fully covered it - it was no made up surgery). Also, years ago, I was "mansplained" by two male dermatologists why the odd bumps on the back of one hand were "nothing" and "probably stress related," but the next dermatologist, a woman, diagnosed them correctly, treated them and they've been gone for decades.

I have similar examples of women and men bosses "mansplaining" me this or that. My point: using "mansplaining -" a term that describe behavior that some members of both sexes practice - as applying only to men is sexist, boorish and obnoxious. Today, if it was reversed - as my note on "nagging" above shows has been done - and some term was negatively applied exclusively to women, it would be exposed immediately as being obnoxiously sexists. Sexism, like all the "isms," are wrong no matter which gender, race, group, etc. they are directed at - period, full stop.

 

[Nobert]

On mansplaining...well, let me tell you how this works, and then you'll know.

I wouldn't deny that such a phenomenon exists, although, as a male (nominally), I probably don't see it. I do think it's more complicated than just men talking down to women (which, again, I'm not saying doesn't happen). A couple of years ago I was visitiing a friend and her family. They had just bought a house, a fixer-upper, which was fine scince they are fixit-up chappies, and they had a workman and some of his buddies over to look at something. One of these guys noticed the garage roof, which at the time was shingled with the Maine State Flag (a.k.a. a blue tarp). She started talking about her plans for the garage and he started going off about what would need to be done. After they left, she commented that she didn't appreciate being mansplained to about stuff she was already versed in (this woman could probaby repair things I've never even heard of, is one of the smartest and most independent people I know, and a doctor to boot). I didn't say anything, but I hadn't heard it that way. I heard a guy just talking about hardware-based activities because he liked to.
Broadly speaking, men enjoy discussing things they know, especially technical stuff. It reassures us and helps us keep out bearings in an uncertain world. Maybe women are like that too, but I haven't noticed it like I do in the fellas. I can't tell you the number of times I've listened to my brother wax eloquently about guitar equipment; I usually end up feeling pretty waxed myself, or at least glazed over.
I can even imagine two men talking like this to each other, both of them knowing exactly what they speak of and each knowing that the other knows it as well. "Well, I had to open 'er up and recalibrate the manifolds." "You gotta make sure the flanges are open when you do that." "Oh yeah, but this was on the pre-'86 model." "Well, still you can get a real mess if you don't grease the intake nozzles." I'm making all that up, but I think it passes as a reconstruction of guy patois.
To reiterate, I'm not saying that this mansplaining is all in the soft, lacey pastel folds of the female brain matter. I'm just suggesting there may be a gray area.
And, yes, I have been "mansplained" to by women, often in a work environment. "Oh, thank you for instructing me on exactly what I was already doing," as I always don't say out loud. There was also a three-year relationship with a woman who did this sort of thing, but there my views would be jaundiced yellower than a road-worker's mesh vest, so I won't get into that.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the difference between "splaining" and "being a clueless dink" is more a matter of historical class relationships. I think it's quite reasonable to argue that men, as a class, have historically had a position of power and authority over women as a class -- and they still, in many ways, do today, as witness the recent spectacle of a Senate committee with a signficant potential impact on specific women's health issues being composed entirely of men.

Many men still active in the world today grew up in a world where their class power and class authority were accepted without challenge -- and even though they intellectually know they no longer live in such a worldm they still bear the marks of their upbringing. Many men thus "mansplain" -- a practice tied to the historical dominant male-over-female gender dynamic -- without consciously realizing that they're even doing so because that's how they, culturally, were raised. Criticising "mansplaination" is not an attack on specific men, as individuals -- unless they're being real serious and deliberate jackholes about it -- but it is pointing out how these historical class relationships continue to affect society today, even though "We've Come So Far." (But I will say too that it's not only Olde Coots who do it -- I've gotten "mansplained" by an insufferable hipster-type guy young enough to be my son, if I'd ever been so careless. Nor is it necessarily any respecter of politics -- I've encountered far too many mansplainers among my fellow dirty pinkos.)

The specific concept of "mansplaination" seems first to have been articulated by author Rebecca Solnit about ten years ago, although she didn't use the word. Her original essay "Men Explain Things To Me" is available here, and still gives a good outline of what the real issue is for women who find themselves on the receiving end of the situation.

 

[Paisley]

Doctors are notorious for their arrogance (docsplaining?). When I suspected my dog was suffering from problems in her hind legs because of the flea and tick preventative, a vet assured me that couldn't be the case. When I looked on the box, it said that border collies (a breed closely related to my dog) could be harmed by it. Some supplements helped her a lot (remember when doctors said that that stuff was for kooks?). But my new vet says that after this much time off the medication, since she still has some problems, the damage is likely permanent.

 

[Paisley]

Here's a terrific description of docsplaining, written by a doctor:
http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/2017/02/undoctored-an-excerpt/

 

[belfastboy]

There was never any mystique or delicate evasiveness about "time of the month" in our household. Ma kept her sanitary belt hanging on the bathroom doorknob, and when we noticed it was missing we knew from a very young age to stay out of her way. When we asked her what was wrong she replied "Oh, you'll find out." And she was right.

As far as gripes about the male sex, I'll say that in the twelve years I've been working closely with young people, I've found that late-teenage/early twenties boys who can work well in a customer-service environment tend to be extremely rare. They're either swaggering pests to the girls they work with, or they labor under the delusion that they're Vulcans, and stand there stone-faced and completely impassive when dealing with other staff and customers -- which in an entertainment-oriented workplace is not what you need. And both types are, to be blunt, far less reliable and responsible than girls of the same age -- you can never be entirely confident that they'll show up when they're supposed to and you have to follow them around to make sure they do the tasks they've been assigned.

There have been exceptions, but only two, among all the kids I've had in my little groups over the years. Some of the girls have been handfuls in their own ways, but they tend to be more dependable, more responsible, and have more outgoing personalities than the boys.

The question that pops up for me is; what is wrong with today's mothers that they are raising these young men in this way?

 

[scottyrocks]

Allow me to mansplain for a moment:

If 'explanation' is the noun for 'explain,' then 'mansplanation' should be the noun for 'mansplain.'

Nah, not really mansplaining. Anyone coulda done it. haha

 

[LizzieMaine]

I wish I knew. I'm in the process of hiring a new kid right now to replace one who's going off to college, and the last one I interviewed was a nineteen-year-old boy who came swaggering in assuming he was going to start as a manager. You don't even get a key to the door at our place until you've been there for two years, so I had to explain to him quite patiently that he'd start as a popcorn kid the same as everybody else, and he seemed quite disappointed. I never get this kind of entitled attitude from girls.

We had one boy, though, that we all dearly loved having around -- the only way to describe him is that he was a "big galoot," about six foot three, all arms and legs and hair, but he got along well with everyone, was fine with the customers, and always showed up on time. I yelled at him once when I caught him smoking on the sidewalk and told him that s**t will stunt his growth, and he appreciated the joke.

He'd been raised by a pair of ultra-crunchy Old Hippie parents and lived for a year in a yurt, so he didn't exactly have a mainstream upbringing. And when he left us he went on to become a lumberjack. Not some chicken-necked urban doofus in a flannel shirt, a real actual lumberjack who works in the woods. Last time he stopped in for a visit it was like meeting Paul Bunyan in person.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Allow me to mansplain for a moment:

If 'explanation' is the noun for 'explain,' then 'mansplanation' should be the noun for 'mansplain.'

Nah, not really mansplaining. Anyone coulda done it. haha

My mistake. Clearly I had something in my i.

 

[Frunobulax]

The question that pops up for me is; what is wrong with today's mothers that they are raising these young men in this way?

Wrong question. The most common problem with young men is the lack of a father figure. Don't blame Mom.

 

[belfastboy]

Wrong question. The most common problem with young men is the lack of a father figure. Don't blame Mom.

At the risk of being tendentious.....women are the de facto gatekeepers and yes the lack of fathers is a huge problem but as gatekeepers they need to be cautious about with whom they breed. Boys of any age beyond puberty can and will breed and the terrible news is that they breed, leave, and beget a new generation of boys.

 

[sheeplady]

I'd say that a lot of men who come from single parent (which is typically only a mother) beat men that come from aloof father homes in the maturity department. Simply because they likely had to pitch in to help their family survive.

The most immature young men I've met come from families where their mother waited on their father hand and foot, and these young men seem to expect everybody else to do the same with them.

 

[HadleyH1]

Wrong question. The most common problem with young men is the lack of a father figure. Don't blame Mom.

I have to agree with you here.

They never knew the meaning of the word male, they became all snowflakes. Sad.