The End of an Era - After Almost a Century

[Stearmen]

Lets face it, the cell phone is the way of the future. Even I had to buy a stupid smart phone, when my internet land line went down, right as some motorcycle parts I had for sale on auction, and I had no way to talk to the winning bidders! On a side note, I had the trouble for almost a year, kept complaining to India, they would just send another technician out to my house. I would tell them, the problem is with the router box a couple of streets over, they would not listen. Finally, I was test riding a hardtail motorcycle I had just built to sell on the bay, when I passed that very box, there were three trucks around it, so I did a U-turn and asked one of the guys what he was doing, he said he was replacing all the internals, they were shot. I said to him, I had told the people in India thats what need to don months ago, he laughed and said, India!

 

[LizzieMaine]

Lets face it, the cell phone is the way of the future. Even I had to buy a stupid smart phone, when my internet land line went down, right as some motorcycle parts I had for sale on auction, and I had no way to talk to the winning bidders! On a side note, I had the trouble for almost a year, kept complaining to India, they would just send another technician out to my house. I would tell them, the problem is with the router box a couple of streets over, they would not listen. Finally, I was test riding a hardtail motorcycle I had just built to sell on the bay, when I passed that very box, there were three trucks around it, so I did a U-turn and asked one of the guys what he was doing, he said he was replacing all the internals, they were shot. I said to him, I had told the people in India thats what need to don months ago, he laughed and said, India!

"Progress."

 

[Stearmen]

"Progress."

I wouldn't go that far!

 

[sheeplady]

How is this different than the first 100 years of phone service? Or electricity, for that matter? "What? You're gonna string a bunch of ugly copper wires on poles all over town? Not on my watch buster!" Eventually people put down their blind hatred for any sort of change and said "you know what, this telephone thingie ain't such a bad gizmo after all". I suspect this will be the case here also.

Because they didn't suggest taking away older froms of communication (say the telegram or post) but rather were adding new ones?

Also, I have zero faith in this current government's ability (or regular old people's ability to care) to protect the disenfranchised and at risk citizens from exclusion.



Aside from that, they're going to have some fun sh*t of a time replacing all those lines if they're looking for a linebased telecomm. Look forward to a big bill Americans.

 

[sheeplady]

If there is a market for the product you want, there will be a provider for it. Sounds like there's not, however.

This view of the market ignores the fact the much of the country that relies on POTS isn't a big enough of a market for a provider to take interest. There was a time when Americans cared enough about their distant neighors to make sure those in power enacted laws that ensured access.

Most of the proposed plans I've read leave out one percent of the customers. Sucks to live in a rural area of the country I guess. Thank god we don't need people in areas like that for anything like gas, oil, food, or lumber. I mean, baby carrots grow in bags like that if I stick a half eaten one in a sidewalk crack, right?

 

[LizzieMaine]

This view of the market ignores the fact the much of the country that relies on POTS isn't a big enough of a market for a provider to take interest. There was a time when Americans cared enough about their distant neighors to make sure those in power enacted laws that ensured access.

Most of the proposed plans I've read leave out one percent of the customers. Sucks to live in a rural area of the country I guess. Thank god we don't need people in areas like that for anything like gas, oil, food, or lumber. I mean, baby carrots grow in bags like that if I stick a half eaten one in a sidewalk crack, right?

Verizon bailed out of Maine because they didn't want to be required to maintain the existing copper lines, even though most of the customers in the state use those lines. What a fine, public-spirited company.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Because they didn't suggest taking away older froms of communication (say the telegram or post) but rather were adding new ones?

Also, I have zero faith in this current government's ability (or regular old people's ability to care) to protect the disenfranchised and at risk citizens from exclusion.



Aside from that, they're going to have some fun sh*t of a time replacing all those lines if they're looking for a linebased telecomm. Look forward to a big bill Americans.

They're not talking about offering a different form of communication, they're talking about upgrading the technology to deliver what you already have. This isn't replacing telegraph with telephone, it's replacing DC current with AC current. The end product remains the same. You still pick up the phone, dial a number, and it rings on the other end.

 

[HudsonHawk]

This view of the market ignores the fact the much of the country that relies on POTS isn't a big enough of a market for a provider to take interest. There was a time when Americans cared enough about their distant neighors to make sure those in power enacted laws that ensured access.

Most of the proposed plans I've read leave out one percent of the customers. Sucks to live in a rural area of the country I guess. Thank god we don't need people in areas like that for anything like gas, oil, food, or lumber. I mean, baby carrots grow in bags like that if I stick a half eaten one in a sidewalk crack, right?

I think you misunderstand the proposal. They're not talking about simply ignoring folks who currently have POTS, they're talking about upgrading those folks to modern lines. A large endeavor to be sure, but I think they're aware of that. They're not going to leave people without a working telephone line.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think you misunderstand the proposal. They're not talking about simply ignoring folks who currently have POTS, they're talking about upgrading those folks to modern lines. A large endeavor to be sure, but I think they're aware of that. They're not going to leave people without a working telephone line.

Until the power goes out.

 

[LizzieMaine]

They're not talking about offering a different form of communication, they're talking about upgrading the technology to deliver what you already have. This isn't replacing telegraph with telephone, it's replacing DC current with AC current. The end product remains the same. You still pick up the phone, dial a number, and it rings on the other end.

It's not quite the same thing. Replacing copper lines with fiber optic means the telephone -- any type of telephone -- will require a separate power supply, because glass cables can't carry electricity. A wired telephone requires 48 volts DC to operate, and 90 volts AC to operate the ring circuit. Fiber optic lines are unable to carry these currents -- so the phone must be plugged into a separate power supply operating off the AC line, and containing a transformer and a rectifier to provide the appropriate voltages. If the AC line fails, the phone won't work.

Copper phone lines provide both the operating current and the signal current, with the operating current provided by the central office battery system independent of the AC line. Fiber optic lines cannot do this. For basic telephone service, for *emergency* telephone service, copper is the only way to go.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Until the power goes out.

The existing POTS lines go down too.

 

[HudsonHawk]

It's not quite the same thing. Replacing copper lines with fiber optic means the telephone -- any type of telephone -- will require a separate power supply, because glass cables can't carry electricity. A wired telephone requires 48 volts DC to operate, and 90 volts AC to operate the ring circuit. Fiber optic lines are unable to carry these currents -- so the phone must be plugged into a separate power supply operating off the AC line, and containing a transformer and a rectifier to provide the appropriate voltages. If the AC line fails, the phone won't work.

Copper phone lines provide both the operating current and the signal current, with the operating current provided by the central office battery system independent of the AC line. Fiber optic lines cannot do this. For basic telephone service, for *emergency* telephone service, copper is the only way to go.

I understand how a phone works, as do the phone company and the regulatory agencies. I just reject the idea that a new system must necessarily, by definition, mean chaos and calamity.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I understand how a phone works, as do the phone company and the regulatory agencies. I just reject the idea that a new system must necessarily, by definition, mean chaos and calamity.

Well, until Our Corporate Masters and their regulatory lapdogs can finance a change in the laws of physics, that's just what this particular plan could mean for those who depend on the existing system.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Well, until Our Corporate Masters and their regulatory lapdogs can finance a change in the laws of physics, that's just what this particular plan could mean for those who depend on the existing system.

It's not a matter of changing the laws of physics, it's a matter of changing the technology to overcome the current obstacles. I'm not saying that's easy. I don't think anyone thinks it will be. I just don't dismiss that possibility out of hand.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's not a matter of changing the laws of physics, it's a matter of changing the technology to overcome the current obstacles. I'm not saying that's easy. I don't think anyone thinks it will be. I just don't dismiss that possibility out of hand.

If they insist fiber optic lines are the solution, nothing they can do will ever change the fact that it won't work as well as copper. Glass can't and will never be able to conduct electricity.

 

[vitanola]

It looks like the POTS system will soon be a thing of the past.

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/11...de-century-old-phone-system/?intcmp=obnetwork

Almost a century? Heck, a 1905 vintage Automatic Electric dial telephone wired to its original specifications will still work on a modern networks, as will a Western Electric "Common Battery" set of 1894 (though lacking of course a dial).

Remember that the nearly all-encompassing Bell System announced the inevitable phase-out of local battery service (crank or magneto telephones) at the time of the Kingsbury Commitment in 1913. In some very rural areas this standard lingered until almost the end of the 1970's.

I suspect that ti will take quite a while for the entire rural network to change over, unless of course that unprofitable network is simply abandoned...

 

[vitanola]

The existing POTS lines go down too.

Where? The current network is fitted with ample reserve battery capacity to allow operation for at least 72 hours without central station current, and most offices have other stand-by arrangements which allow the network to run indefinitely without central station power.

The above is a remnant of old Bell System practice, and I understand that some very recent installations are not quite so robust.

 

[vitanola]

If they insist fiber optic lines are the solution, nothing they can do will ever change the fact that it won't work as well as copper. Glass can't and will never be able to conduct electricity.

Yes, but remember, too that Local Battery service proved itself to be quite reliable over three-quarters of a century. The question which concerns me is whether the necessary investment will be made in reliability in isolated areas.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Where? The current network is fitted with ample reserve battery capacity to allow operation for at least 72 hours without central station current, and most offices have other stand-by arrangements which allow the network to run indefinitely without central station power.

At my house. Every hurricane, every ice storm, every time trees fall across lines. Batteries don't do much good when the copper lines have been severed.

 

[HudsonHawk]

If they insist fiber optic lines are the solution, nothing they can do will ever change the fact that it won't work as well as copper. Glass can't and will never be able to conduct electricity.

I haven't seen where they insist on anything. That's kind of my point. Until I see how the new system is designed to work, I'm not willing to definitively say it won't.