Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
  • The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

The Demise of the Summer Suit

Chasseur

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,494
Location
Hawaii
Did lighter weight fabric kill the summer suit?

I ask this because one thing that living in warm climates that has really surprised me is the disappearance of the summer suit.

For example, I work in downtown Honolulu. This is the most business/formal place in the city, with the possible exception of some of the high-end shopping areas in Waikiki. Of course being Hawaii, and the 21st Century business casual dominates. In Hawaii this is the ubiquitous Aloha uniform: aloha shirt, khaki or blue trousers, black belt, black tasseled loafers, cell phone holster, no hat.

However, lawyers, some politicians and some higher-ups in business and banking do wear suits most days. One thing that stands out is that these are 99.9% dark colored suits like you would see anywhere in the US, mostly black and blue, wool, single breasted, notch lapel, etc. No linen, no light colors, etc. For example one of the only (perhaps the only) place to get a made-to-measure suit in the state, who is run by a very old fashion tailor, has exactly ZERO light colored suits off the rack in his store all of times that I visit. All of the suit fabrics and styles he advertises look much like suits in colder climates in the US.

When I worked in Washington, DC, while there was a smattering of summer suits, for the most part 90-95% of the men worn dark wool suits even when over 90 degrees in the DC summer hell. From my travels in places like NYC, Chicago, etc. it seems that this is a general trend. Though I could very well be wrong.

I have a few ideas on the cause, I am only a dabbler in fashion history so I might be wrong:

(1) Lightweight fabric dominate so people think moving to a summer suit in lighter colors is not necessary.

(2) The casualization of the Western world. Less and less people wear suits or know much about them, let alone know what a summer suit is. Same with the demise of formal wear and other lesser known aspects of dress: hats, pocket squares, etc. If you barely know anything about suits and barely wear one, why also get a white suit?

(3) The preference since the early 1990s for men to wear darker colors (ever notice how much black is worn these past few years, especially when I lived in Europe), I think many people association light colored suits with bad 1970s disco and 80s pastels of Miami Vice.

When I think of the off-white suit I think of:

Henreid5.jpg



I think many other people think of:

miami-vice6.jpg



Any thoughts?


Now if you look at vintage photos of Honolulu in the 1920s-early 50s you see good amount of standard tropical/summer suiting: lots of off-white, linen, panama hats, etc. Though, even in the old pictures there are dark colors and in general felt hats outnumber panama or straw hats in most of the photos I’ve looked at. In the late 1950s and early 1960s the Hawaiian shirt and aloha wear come to dominate business dress as they do today.

Though there has been an ever so slight rise in young men wearing non-aloha wear in Honolulu in business settings. Essentially the story is that Aloha shirts are now seen as "what their dad always wore" and is seen as too old fashioned, so more young men are wearing button up long-sleave dress shirts and even sportcoats and suits to work. Though this is a rather small group... For more here's a story: http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2006/06/05/story1.html

1920s:

Bunch of dapper gents in blazers in front of 'Iolani Palace:

367114087.jpg


The crocodile himself, Averil Harriman and business tycoon Walter Dillingham inspecting the railroad:

367114091.jpg


1930s:

Territorial Gov. Judd 1930s:

367114089.jpg


Gov. Poindexter and Dillingham speaking about inter-island travel in 1934

367114095.jpg


A dapper gent and his 1935 Chevy:

367114093.jpg


Crowd waiting for results during Massie Trial in 1932:

massiecrowd.jpg


Massie jury:

massiejury.jpg


Prosecutor John Kelly

Kelley.JPG


1940s and 50s to follow...
 

Max Flash

One of the Regulars
Messages
181
Location
London, UK (and elsewhere...)
I also live in a very hot climate (the Middle East) and work as a lawyer. In the summer, the daytime temperatures are particularly unbearable (45 degrees centigrade plus) and evening temperatures stifling (32 degrees centigrade plus). As I work in a conservative profession, I am obliged to wear a suit everyday, except Thursdays (the last day of the week, the Islamic weekend falling on Friday and Saturday in this part of the Gulf), when we can dress down.

In my office, suits means almost exclusively dark wool suits. Dress down is terrible - ripped jeans, t-shirts and trainers are all de rigeur. While on Thursdays I usually revert to the tried and tested "business casual" wear of chinos and a button-down shirt, during the week I find myself wearing the same types of suits as I wore in London, namely dark grey or navy blue pinstripe wool suits. The most I have been tempted to stretch this is to a navy blue linen suit, which has gone unremarked. I have a light grey, prince-of-wales check wool suit in a lighter weight fabric which I also wear without remark, so this is obviously acceptable. However, up until now, I have not worn any of my more casual, lightweight summer-colour suits (one cream linen, one mustard linen and one light-coloured cotton) on a typical weekday.

Until now. I have decided, in light of your post, to conduct an experiment. I intend to wear the light-coloured cotton suit, together with a dress shirt and tie, on a workday when I am obligated to wear full business dress. The purpose of the experiment is to see whether the seeming modern-day reluctance of people to wear lighter colours during the summer in hot climes is one of fashion or personal intent (i.e. men choosing to wear dark clothes over light) or is one of conformity in the business world, in particular stemming from such lighter summer colours to be regarded as "inappropriate" or "too informal" by one's peers and superiors. I will gauge the comments (if any) I receive and judge the situation accordingly.

In this day and age, in which men undoubtedly dress less formally than in previous generations, even in the conservative workplace (such as a law office), I would be surprised if a lighter coloured suit would be seen as inappropriate or too informal, especially if worn with a tie (during the day, unless seeing clients, none of my colleagues wear a tie in the office at any time of year). Typically, our clients will wear suits but often without a tie (even to meetings) and I regularly see clients in slacks and odd jackets (this may be indicative of the American-focussed business mentality of many in the Gulf). I suspect the majority of reactions will stem from the fact that people are now unused to seeing men in light coloured suits, which would lean more towards the fashion-focussed trend or the fact that men are not now as well-versed in clothing as their counterparts in previous generations (i.e. knowing the difference between different cloths, cuts and patterns/colours). Sheep follow the herd, and a dark suit can never be criticised. Also, the limited selection available from shops (and a general lack of tendency for men now to visit the tailor with any regularity) probably exacerbates these trends.

I would appreciate your views and comments before I commence my little experiment, and I will report back on my findings.
 

Fletch

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,865
Location
Iowa - The Land That Stuff Forgot
I've thought a lot about this

2884887797_e532d463e9_m.jpg
(here's why)

Often, when an item of clothing goes out of style, it is reduced to a kind of costume. Sometimes because it's out of style; sometimes vice versa.

Nowhere is the process more obvious than with white suits.

After Paul Henried in the 1940s, we see a downward spiral in seriousness and respectability. The whites begin to stand for things like moral turpitude, commercial trademark-ism, tasteless flash, and finally, out and out caricature.

1950s
sjff_03_img1023.jpg


1960s
colonel-sanders.jpg


1970s
ap_travolta_snf_071211_ssh.jpg


1980s
boss_hogg.jpg


The white-suited man is a feudal lord, or else he is pretentious and vain. Either way, he is venal, self-gratifying, above work, and not to be trusted. The self-made Col. Sanders is the one exception, and even he harks back to a bygone era, remembered only in soft focus.
 

Max Flash

One of the Regulars
Messages
181
Location
London, UK (and elsewhere...)
Fletch, I don't disagree with anything you've said, and your examples illustrate the point perfectly. I once wore a two-piece cream linen suit to a summer horse racing event (where many older men were wearing cream linen suits or similar). I was wearing it with a light blue shirt and crimson tie. As I walked past another young man on my way into the beer tent (who, incidentally, was wearing a black suit with a black shirt, white belt and white shoes (no tie)), he started whistling the main song from Saturday Night Fever. I couldn't help but laugh at his inability to make a distinction in his mind between a white three-piece disco suit worn with a black shirt and what I was wearing. And this from someone who, in my view, was dressed more as a cariacature than I was.

But I think this goes beyond the white (or light cream) suit, which is so different as to be sure to invite comment when worn. I wonder about the reaction to light beiges and chino/khaki colours, as well as mustards, which would, not so long ago, have been acceptable summer wear. I expect that certain colours are more prevalent in certain more-traditional areas (e.g. light linens and seersuckers in the Southern US) than others.

Thinking about it, I can't recall any scenes from Mad Men where the men are wearing light-coloured suits in the office, even during the summer. I may be wrong though.
 

Feraud

Bartender
Messages
17,190
Location
Hardlucksville, NY
Max Flash said:
As I walked past another young man on my way into the beer tent (who, incidentally, was wearing a black suit with a black shirt, white belt and white shoes (no tie)), he started whistling the main song from Saturday Night Fever. I couldn't help but laugh at his inability to make a distinction in his mind between a white three-piece disco suit worn with a black shirt and what I was wearing. And this from someone who, in my view, was dressed more as a cariacature than I was.
Sometimes you can only laugh at the irony of such situations/comments. ;)
 

WH1

Practically Family
Messages
967
Location
Over hills and far away
Max raises some interesting points. I moved to Alabama several years ago from Colorado and I have noticed that men do wear seersucker and light colored suits to work but they tend to be small business owners or non-corporate professionals such as doctors, lawyers, pharmacists and insurance professionals. Many of the local haberdashers carry the suits and sell them quite well, but the large chains do not carry a very wide selection.

Was the summer weight suit ever acceptable for business wear North of the Mason Dixon line or was it a regional tradition? I have several lighter weight suits in light colors and wear them on a regular basis.
 

Fletch

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,865
Location
Iowa - The Land That Stuff Forgot
Growing up in Iowa, where it's damn near Southern hot-n-humid in summer, I used to see light colored suits in the warm months. I don't think there's any bias against them in the Midwest as long as they're not at all flashy. Flash is death to a man there.

BinkieBaumont said:
"love the suit, but shouldn't the tie sort of "Blend in" the suit has been "Hijacked by the Tie" the suit is kind of soft and casual, and the tie is a bit aggressive
1062945786_72fc84e835_m.jpg

How's this then?
 

WH1

Practically Family
Messages
967
Location
Over hills and far away
You know in reviewing some of the period clothing guides on this forum I would tend to believe that the lighter colored suits were never really acceptable for business wear particularly in the large cities. They seem to be associated primarily with weekend living and vacations rather than weekday work.
 

MisterCairo

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,005
Location
Gads Hill, Ontario
Has anyone had any experience wearing lighter COLOURED suits in the summer in business contexts, vice wearing white or cream coloured suits? I have worn suits that are tan/buff coloured, even lighter shades of green, with no adverse reactions.

I agree with the several comments that white or off-white suits are more likely to be accepted in social settings vice the office.
 

Fletch

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,865
Location
Iowa - The Land That Stuff Forgot
MisterCairo said:
Has anyone had any experience wearing lighter COLOURED suits in the summer in business contexts, vice wearing white or cream coloured suits? I have worn suits that are tan/buff coloured, even lighter shades of green, with no adverse reactions.
In the dog-eat-dog world capitals such as New York and Boston, one must look hard-edged, nut-cutting and serious as cardiac arrest. Even good old Oxford grey marks one as a something of a softy.

Yes, I'm indulging in stereotypes. There are people in the leading cities of the US who eat, sleep, breathe and live stereotypes. People who build livelihoods, entire industries, whole empires on stereotypes.
douglas_gordon_gekko-03.jpg

Stereotypes - for lack of a better word - are good. They work.

Not for me, tho. I'm just sayin'.

lol
 

dhermann1

I'll Lock Up
Messages
9,154
Location
Da Bronx, NY, USA
A/C

Another factor not mentioned so far is air conditioning. In the old days, when a/c was much rarer, men were wearing their suits in a hot indoor environment. Now most places are air conditioned, and people spend an even greater percetnage of their time indoors than they ever did.
As I recall, Hawaii, tho always warm, is never excessively hot. It's never colder than 64F, and never warmer than 92F, with moderate humidity. So the need for a lighter suit is reduced. Then there the cleaning factor. A dark suit can take on a few little smudges here and there and not show it too flagrantly. The slightest smudge on a white or light colored suit really stands out.
 

carter

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,921
Location
Corsicana, TX
I own and wear at least four linen suits and two seersucker suits in the summer here in TX. No bias here as far as I can tell. If anything, I receive positive comments. It is interesting that the comments are occasionally of the "I like that suit. I used to have one just like it." variety.

IMHO, dark suits worn in order to fit some real or imagined role are indicative of a lack of self confidence and/or imagination by the wearer. Unless compelled to wear a dark-colored suit in warmer weather, I would suppose that the wearer simply wanted to be as hot as possible when outdoors.

In the interest of self-preservation and a modicum of comfort, I'm sticking with light-weight and light-colored summer suits and Panama hats until cooler weather comes along.
 

Chasseur

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,494
Location
Hawaii
Gents,

Thanks for your replies!

Fletch and Paddy you guys are looking sharp!

Max: I think you should try your experiment and see what happens. Its actually a question I've wondered for sometime. We are so casual these days I really don't think anyone in office settings reallys cares/knows anything about suits and what is and is not appropriate for the season/climate.

Some realy good points that I did not think of.

A couple of remarks:

(1) In terms of the white/off-white suit not being acceptable for work. I think this must have depended upon geographic location. In tropical climates and the US South (and perhaps the Midwest as Fletch notes), I think the summer suit was/is perfectly accetable. The few summer suit wearers I knew in the DC area were mostly Virginians and other southerners.

If you look at the pictures I posted in regards to Hawaii most are men doing work related functions: government and business leaders. In particular the picture of prosecutor John Kelly this picture was a widely seen one during the Massie case not only in Hawaiian newspapers, but nationally. This was probably the biggest, most infamous court case in Hawaii history. Nothing more serious for a DA to be involved in probably in the history of the territory/state, and he worn off-white linen suits for the whole trial.

Perhaps things were/are different in more Northern latitudes... Also there were/are trans-Atlantic differences. When I lived in France, there was no stigma against business men in town and rural areas wearing summer suits, in particular in the hotter months of July and August (for those few unlucky souls in Paris who are not on vacation in those months).



(2) Fletch and Max raise some good points on the "message" that the white suit sends out to people in today's world. I think the Saturday Night Fever image is quite real. I have had the theme of Saturday Night Fever hummed arround me more than once when wearing a linen jacket when living on the mainland. Also I have recieved a few comments along the lines of, "Man, I love your suit, it's just like Travolta in 'Saturday Night Fever!'" :eusa_doh:

The "Miami Vice" comments I've also gotten. In the UK in the late 1990s, when everyone seemed to be wearing black all the time, anytime I worn dress shirts or sportcoats that were not black, I used to get the Miami Vice comments (I've never gotten a Miami Vice comment here in the States). I don't own anything that remotely looks like that show but I guess its like the Indy comments when you wear a brimmed hat...

(3) The point on AC is also interesting. As many on the Lounge have commented before we now live in a world where men take off their jackets to drive to work (or in DC carry their jackets on public transport), put their jackets on briefly to go into the building/office, and then take their jackets off inside the office. Only putting them on for the occasional meeting and then to leave the office again. If you are only wearing the jacket for short periods of time and most of the environments you are in are air conditioned no real problem with wearing a wool suit. I think in pre-AC days where you are expected to wear a jacket throughout the day this would have been a different story.

Interesting stuff!
 

reetpleat

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,681
Location
Seattle
Fletch said:
2884887797_e532d463e9_m.jpg
(here's why)

Often, when an item of clothing goes out of style, it is reduced to a kind of costume. Sometimes because it's out of style; sometimes vice versa.

Nowhere is the process more obvious than with white suits.

After Paul Henried in the 1940s, we see a downward spiral in seriousness and respectability. The whites begin to stand for things like moral turpitude, commercial trademark-ism, tasteless flash, and finally, out and out caricature.

1950s
sjff_03_img1023.jpg


1960s
colonel-sanders.jpg


1970s
ap_travolta_snf_071211_ssh.jpg


1980s
boss_hogg.jpg


The white-suited man is a feudal lord, or else he is pretentious and vain. Either way, he is venal, self-gratifying, above work, and not to be trusted. The self-made Col. Sanders is the one exception, and even he harks back to a bygone era, remembered only in soft focus.

I finally understand my attraction to white suits.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
109,333
Messages
3,079,070
Members
54,279
Latest member
Sivear
Top