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The Decline and Dissolution of "Society" & my Grandmother

Weston

A-List Customer
Messages
303
Some brief background:

My Grandmother came from a town now so polluted by mining that it no longer exists, it was forcibly shut down as no one could live there any longer. Moved away from home to a nearby town, rented a room from a hairdresser, then went to work for the same. Owned one dress, and washed it often to keep it clean for work. This was at 15.

Over time, she gained experience after becoming the youngest graduate of beauty school in the state at that time. Slowly but surely she built herself up, surviving the 30's and becoming an independent young woman into the 40's. She married my grandfather after he saw her before joining the service and heading overseas.

When they returned from his duty (she joined him at his post-war base in Pyote, TX, another town that no longer exists), they moved to a bigger town, Ponca City in Oklahoma. As he grandfather grew in success as a car salesman, they eventually moved to Tulsa, quite the metropolis in the 50's. This was the big town - big newspapers, society, the arts.

She took to it like a duck to water - her desire in life was to be a part of polite society. The house, built to specification by my grandfather in a lovely postwar neighborhood, overflowed with Ethan Allen furniture and Emily Post books. In a way, a happy female version of Dick Whitman, she escaped an unhappy childhood to rise into "the big time". Her time was occupied with become a genteel person - writing notes to those she loved, sending flowers when appropriate, getting stationery, putting social notices in the paper and entertaining people in parties at home for husband's business.

Her pride in life was not what she had, although she loved her furniture (I have it still), but in her place in society and being a responsible, respectable person. In those days, you had to have learning and education to know when to send a note, what you should do for any occasion from the birth of children to attending the Ballet.

She taught me all she could, having had my father reject it. She died 3-4 years ago, and I think her great disappointment in the end of life was that her generation was vanishing with the "society" she prized. Not a "high society" of monied elites, but of educated, decent people. Doctors, lawyers, housewives and car salesmen. People who separated themselves from riff-raff by knowing what loving, kind people did for one another.

I think I'm drawn to the FL because I feel a man out of time, 32 years old in a world where I think in 1955 at most. I don't think I've ever seen any discussion on the decline of the middle classes manners and society before, but it sort of haunts me, as if I've seen the death of a society I really didn't get to participate in, as it vanished before my adulthood.
 

Silver Dollar

Practically Family
Messages
613
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Don't despair, Weston. There are still a good number of folks out there who do just like your grandmother did way back when. The problem is that society really hasn't died, it's just that the riff raff and the creeps etc., are just a bit louder and more noticeable than they were years ago thanks to reality shows, movies and who knows what else. I'm always coming across people who have the old values like opening doors for women (at least for those women that like that kind of thing), helping someone in need, speaking without using foul language between every onther word, that are honest in business, that respect their elders (at least the ones who that haven't done something stupid or nasty to lose it), who respect the rights of others, write thank you notes, send gifts or flowers when appropriate and the list goes on forever. We haven't really lost those people. Look past all the morons, squirrels and wackoids and there they are.
 

IndianaWay

New in Town
Messages
36
Location
Indiana
Similar...

I've had similar thoughts about the small little town I grew up in and still live near. When growing up there were many of my "elders" who just had... class, for lack of a better term. There was just an aura of dignity and respectability they had that as a man in my mid-40's, I think is worth trying to emulate. Not in a stuffy, condescending sort of way, but in a way that communicates caring, compassion, some fun, and also.... class. Help me with a better word! :)
 
D

Deleted member 12480

Guest
It may refresh you to know I still send thankyou-notes, and I am 15 and seen by the general public as someone who is going to stab/swear at or otherwise inconvenience you.

:)
xx
 

Weston

A-List Customer
Messages
303
Well, if that picture is you, I don't feel in danger of stabbing.

I almost wonder if there's a book in me somewhere - the Resurrection of Class: how to care for others more than oneself, and contribute to society.

Writing this has been cathartic, I've been living with these thoughts for some time.
 
D

Deleted member 12480

Guest
ohh thankyou. :)

Please write a book. Oh or a blog!! I would LOVE to read it. :)


Xx
 

Honey Bee

One of the Regulars
Messages
204
Location
Northern California
Oh, yes, please, write a book! There are so very few out there worth reading, I would certainly buy a copy!
The young lady who commented above also has a good idea...create a blog!
I am sure you would have alot more followers than you think :)
You might be interested in this article from, "The Monarchist" along the similar lines as your post....
http://themonarchist1.blogspot.com/2005/08/decline-of-reverence.html
I commented to him to not despair, while the ruffians and disrespectfuls seem to make the news, don't let it stop you from doing whats right.
My Grandmother would say they weren't taught any better so be a good example!
And yes, she did make me be respectful when I thought it wasn't needed...she's been gone 15 years this month and I miss her and recall her many words along those lines everyday.
 

Stearmen

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,202
Goth Help

deleteduser said:
It may refresh you to know I still send thankyou-notes, and I am 15 and seen by the general public as someone who is going to stab/swear at or otherwise inconvenience you. :)
xx
Youth has nothing to do with manners or lack of. I was born in the 50s, so I am not young any more, no, 50s is not the new 40s! A couple of years ago I was at the post office, balancing some boxes with motorcycle parts I had sold, trying to get in the door. Two men in their 30s wearing suits came up opened the door and walked right in front of me, the last one pulled the door shut behind him and laughed, [if I was 20 years younger they wouldn't laugh]! The next person to come up was a young man in his late teens early 20s, Goth from head to toe, he held the door for me, I said thank you, he replied "your welcome"! So there are plenty of people with manners, and you never can tell just by their dress or age.
 

AmateisGal

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,126
Location
Nebraska
Weston, I feel your pain. And I truly would have loved to met your grandmother.

My grandmother is still with me and she is one of the strongest women I know. She has worked hard her entire life, raised a fine family, lost her husband, (my beloved grandfather, two years now), and just keeps on with life. I admire her so much.

I miss the "gentler" aspects of life that were more prevalent in that era - as you say, the thank you notes, the hand-written letters (my grandmother and I still write letters to each other!), the courtesy, etc.

And I, too, think you should write a book! Maybe start with a blog and get some followers to gather opinions/ideas?
 
D

Deleted member 12480

Guest
you are quite right, i just meant that most of the public seem to assume that us teenagers are best kept at arms length or regarded very.... Dubiously based on the ASBO type behavior one sees on the news. It still amazes me to see other kids in my school watch doors shut in my face, or continue the 'traffic' of kids when i hold a door open for a struggling teacher. Its like they haven't a brain?
 
D

Deleted member 12480

Guest
and i really really REALLY think you should make a blog. I think you would get a hell of a lot of followers, particularly as its a little different from the other 'vintage fashion blogs' most of us have! ;)
 

Mr Vim

One Too Many
Messages
1,306
Location
Juneau, Alaska
Yeah, ya darn kids with your music... I'm only kidding.

Weston, I think it is safe to say that everyone on this forum has that nostalgia for the way things were. I wonder sometimes about the path we as a society walked down to get to where we are today... and it still confuses me.

The most interesting thing I've concluded about what we do now that we did not then that has a detrimental affect is privacy. I feel people were more private in years previous where as folks today gab about everything that is happening in their life (lookin' at you facebook.) The amount of intimate details that near strangers know of one another is staggering to comprehend.
 

Weston

A-List Customer
Messages
303
I suppose I wish she were still here, so that she could write the blog with me. Ultimately it needs to come down to a book, really - "Emily Post with Feelings". Not just another etiquette book, but one that discusses what care and appropriateness is called for among loved ones and friends.

I think it could be done. I think my grandmother's goal in life was to be a gracious person. She truly wanted to be the best person she could, and to do that involved helping others to do the same.

I would say a word about nostalgia as well - it's really not an earlier time I long for, or anything that is essentially 40's or 50's, but a real change that can occur in society. As a pastor, I realize more than most that we can either complain about the current generations coming up or we can make every attempt to educate them. I'm afraid I might be on my own trying to recall all the lessons I was taught - I am by no means the master. She was often my guide, making sure I took care to do the things I ought.
 

Silver Dollar

Practically Family
Messages
613
Location
Louisville, Kentucky
Weston said:
I suppose I wish she were still here, so that she could write the blog with me. Ultimately it needs to come down to a book, really - "Emily Post with Feelings". Not just another etiquette book, but one that discusses what care and appropriateness is called for among loved ones and friends.

I think it could be done. I think my grandmother's goal in life was to be a gracious person. She truly wanted to be the best person she could, and to do that involved helping others to do the same.

I would say a word about nostalgia as well - it's really not an earlier time I long for, or anything that is essentially 40's or 50's, but a real change that can occur in society. As a pastor, I realize more than most that we can either complain about the current generations coming up or we can make every attempt to educate them. I'm afraid I might be on my own trying to recall all the lessons I was taught - I am by no means the master. She was often my guide, making sure I took care to do the things I ought.

Just remember this. You never have to feel alone by any means. There are a whole bunch of us folks out there who still hold good family values and try to teach those values to their offspring. We're just a lot quieter than our ill mannered counterparts.
 

Chas

One Too Many
Messages
1,715
Location
Melbourne, Australia
It is worth noting that the "good old days" for some were the "bad old days" for others. Back in the day, there was murder, drug addiction, broken families and deserted children. There was a lot of injustice and harm.

If you're musing on the decline and fall of the middle class, fair enough. Doing something about it? Pretty much impossible in light of the fact that the oligarchs are winning the class war. The only thing you can do about it is to retain your self respect and decorum in the face of what is going on around you.

Societies and civilizations come and go, evolve, devolve, change and pass away. I think that we are witnessing the end of the end of the North American era. Perhaps that isn't a bad thing. We're pretty decadent.

We have laser-guided bombs that can hit a specific building in the middle of a huge city but a host of children that can't or won't crack open a book. Maybe this civilization deserves to be swept away.
 

DAJE

One of the Regulars
Messages
144
Location
Melbourne, Australia
It's worth mentioning that people have definitley been complaining about declining standards since writing was invented, and probably since talking was invented. There are passages in ancient Greek literature (approx 3000 years ago) that precisely echo the sentiments expressed here.

I think it's mostly just what happens as people get older: as we become wiser the lack of "common" decency in the majority of people becomes harder to miss. That's nothing new, it happens to everyone. Let's not idealise the past too much: 1939-45 is right in the middle of the "golden era". 1914-18 immediately preceded it. The 19th century featured a long list of horrors. And every century before that, too.

But, yes, I'm also inclined to agree with Chas (above) that our society (not just the US, but everywhere that modern developed society exists) is in decline. Too much selfishness and the rise of lowest-common-denominator philistinism. Hmmm, given that "politics" in general is banned here, that's about all I can say.

My point? It isn't so much that today sucks and yesterday was great, it's more like today sucks and I was younger yesterday so it seemed pretty great by comparison. I'm sure a time-trip back to the "golden era" wouldn't be quite as nice as people tend to imagine.
 

AmateisGal

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,126
Location
Nebraska
Silver Dollar said:
Just remember this. You never have to feel alone by any means. There are a whole bunch of us folks out there who still hold good family values and try to teach those values to their offspring. We're just a lot quieter than our ill mannered counterparts.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap
 

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