The Conversion Corral

[Sam Craig]

step by step

To me, it all depends on the particular hat.

I have converted seven western hats to heavy duty fedora types
One, sort of a redwood colored Resistol, had a hand tooled leather band to start with, in its cowboy days. I had the brim trimmed down to a little under three inches and reshaped it into a fedora look. Also reshaped the crown into a rather "Indy-like" pinch. The result was stunning and always gets a lot of comments.

On the other hand, I have a couple of hats where I changed out everything from the brim up and made new ribbons. They ended up looking like they were meant to be fedoras, just made of heavier felt.

Then I had an older silver belly Stetson I was redoing an after having the brim trimmed and the crown reshaped, it looked so good with its original thin ribbon that I just left it that way.

It almost seems like no two are just alike.

Over the years, it's been so easy to get good western hats in this area, it's great to finally have something to do with them that gets them back into use.

I converted a dark green one that was my dad's after he passed away and made it into a sort of Aussie-fedora for my youngest son, who is thrilled to have a hat that belonged to grand dad. He probably would never have worn a western hat, but is thrilled with this new creation.

 

[NJIndy]

I've always liked the conversions as it yields a fedora with a great thick felt.
Also, older western hats can be purchased much more reasonably.
I am surprised, no one has made a business of just either doing conversions or selling converted hats...

 

[Sam Craig]

conversion control

gtdean probably hit on one reason you don't see more conversions — the stiffness of the felt.

You can find a number of western hats with thin enough felt to make a good fedora, but they do tend to be stiffer.

On the other hand, having worn a couple of mine for years now, I have found that for daily wear they are a lot easier to care for. You don't have to be as careful with them, especially the darker color ones.

It's sort of like having one of those wool felt crushables that you can throw around, but still being able to enjoy a good fur felt body.

 

[gtdean48]

I've converted 2 Westerns & 1 Outback. The westerns were a vintage 2X Resistol, never worn, open crown, & the other a vintage 3X Stetson well worn & cattleman creased. The crowns came out okay but the brims, like Sam mentioned above, are seriously stiff. If there was a tried & true de-shellac process, I'd be a happy camper. I love these as beaters & especially in the rain as those stiff brims shed water off well. I have an old 4X Stetson that has been my Reenactment hat & the brim on it is getting there. I don't have the time to put these others thru what I put that one thru, not that young anymore either!

 

[Sam Craig]

Know what you mean

I have a great old Gohn Bros. Amish dress hat .... four inch crown, five inch brim ...

I wore it as my campaign hat, Indian Wars reenacting for almost 20 years and it really developed great character. It now looks almost identical to the one John Wayne wore in The Searchers. But even in The Searchers, you can see the back of Duke's hat blow up in windy scenes.

Anyway, the old hat got used for all those stereotypical purposes.

You're right, though, it's not the answer.

Thickness must be one of the issues, but it could be more than that.[huh]

 

[frussell]

Rain is the answer

I've had two Silverbelly Stetsons and one Resistol, all 5 or 7 X, that were subjected to torrential rains, and are now just about as floppy as fedora felt. One or two days of rain doesn't seem to do it, but after about 5 days straight, whatever stiffener was in them went away completely. I'm thinking about converting one in the next few weeks or so. Only problem is that two of them have holes punched in the brim next to the crown to run a stampede string through. This was not at all for looking cool, but strictly function, since at the time I was leading guide rides into our local Indian Canyons, and sometimes had more than 30 beginners on dude string horses following me. If a stiff wind had blown my hat off, it could have caused serious safety issues for all involved. My guess is that a stampede string on a fedora may look pretty silly, so I'll just have to deal with the holes and use these for knockabouts, and to practice ribbon installation and brim-cutting with my soon to arrive cutter tool. The one conversion I have left in my arsenal was a fine 100% beaver hat that was nearly 50 years old, so I never cut any holes in that one, and it made a beautiful, if somewhat stiff-brimmed, fedora. Thanks, Frank.

 

[Sam Craig]

Alchy hat?

It seems to me that I remember reading once that denatured alcohol could be used to take the stiffness out of felt, or is that my imagination?

Anyone else hear of a way to loosen up a western felt?

I mean a way that is color safe?

Just wondering.[huh]

 

[John in Covina]

The stffener in western hats is a type of shellac which disolves in alcohol.

The shellac will shatter over time and soften up with handling and use, but I have been told the shellac will set up again if the hat is steamed to be re-shaped.

There might be other liquids that will disolve shellac but those may fall into the furnuture stripper category perhaps much stronger and hurt the felt.
A quick look has not turned up any mentions other than Alcohol.

The hardware store is methyl or wood alcohol and the other is ethyl the type in vodka, but it is denatured with poison so we don't drink it.

I did see about a guy using Everclear but that seems expensive and wasteful.

If it comes down to wood alcohol then the question is how to use the least yet be effective. Shellac is reported to soften and disolve very quickly when hit by alcohol so the idea maybe to just soak the felt to disolve the shellac and then develope a technique for flushing out the shellac to a minimal level.

Art Fawcett did a soak and rinse in a 5 gallon bucket but it took a lot to cover the hat. I thought putting the hat in a big ziplock storage bag and pour in a smaller amout to soak and disolve along the lines of using a ziplock to marinate meats overnight in the fridge. Once it is softened and disoveled then attempt to flush out the rest with careful pouring to flush out the shellac? It's a theory anyway.

Best of luck with the conversion!

 

[Sam Craig]

Use Scotch — internally

John,

That was terrific and very informative.

I think the internal application of Scotch, then just put up with the stiff brim.

Long, long ago, when I was in college, I worked as a movie projectionist and we used alcohol to clean the optical sensors on big 35mm projectors. As I recall it was not particularly expensive.

I wonder if you could use some in a "spritzer" to soak the brim and then follow up with a spritzer of distilled water?

 

[John in Covina]

THere was a post about getting it out of fabric and they mentioned that some synthetics re-acted badly to direct alcohol soaking.

They did say that you could mix the alcohol with distilled water to a degree to protect the fabric.

So it might be possible to mix down the alcohol a bit and still be effective but give you more to flush with.

 

[Sam Craig]

Worth a try?

John,

This is sounding like it would be worth a try.

I think I may just have a western that is dark enough it won't show any signs of staining and it might be a good candidate for a try out.

We'll see how it goes when I get a chance to stock up on some who-hit-john!

 

[BLACKCLOUD]

Brim question

I am probally asking this question in the wronge thread, but I am sure some of you nice folks will point me in the right direction. I have a wetern style hat
that has too much brim for my tastes and was wondering if it could be cut down. The problem is it is wool felt and had cconcerns about leaving it with a raw edge, Sewing a binding would be out of the question for me and I don't
think it is worth paying a proffesional.

thanks
slw
MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[Sam Craig]

little at a time

measure in a quarter inch. Use good, sharp scissors and try to cut evenly ...

or find a western wear store that will help ... they usually have a brim cutter

Ours charges about $5 per hat and it saves a lot of work

Take your time and good luck

 

[deanzat]

The Process Continues

Thanks for recommending a western wear shop. Sure enough, The Wharf in Ventura took great care of me, and here's the next step in the ongoing conversion of my cowboy hat:

They took 3/4 inch off the brim, sanded the edge, and charged me nothing. I previously bought my Open Road there, but I don't think they remembered me per se; I think they just liked doing something nice. If you're in the area, throw them some business.

Now I have to decide how I want to shape the brim, but for now, I'm going to just enjoy wearing this hat that began as the wrong size and wrong style, but is showing potential to become my go-to hat for 2010!

Here's a reminder of the hat's transformation:

 

[daizawaguy]

From this...(Barbisio)...

to this...

 

[gtdean48]

NICE! There is a hat that'll get plenty of noggin time! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[daizawaguy]

Some better pics of my Barbisio...

 

[mayserwegener]

Some better pics of my Barbisio...

Very nice! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Sam Craig]

felt softening

OK

Time to fess up

I still haven't worked up the guts to try the alcohol spray idea on any converted fedoras

Right ... chicken[huh]

But I just replaced the ribbon tonight on a cowboy to indy hat that I'm taking in soon for a new sweat and I'm going to ask the hatter what he'd recommend

If I learn anything of value, I'll report in

 

[Sam Craig]

Petersham rocks!

By the way, the conversion I was working on is one that I picked up for nothin' at a Salvation Army.

It was a 5 1/2 inch crown, 4 inch brim no name western with no lining, plane cowboy band, but it seemed to be good felt and there were no breaks in the felt.

Medium to darkish brown.

I paid $3 for the hat, then I had the brim trimmed at the local western wear shop ... $5, I salvaged a great old Cavanagh liner for the lid, and I went to a local fabric shop for ribbon.

Since the hat seemed to be asking to be transformed into a facsimile of an Indy, I chose black grosgraine ... of course no one locally had any idea what Petersham is or why I wanted rayon ribbon.

Everything turned out great with the hat ... purely by accident, understand. But from across the room it really does resemble the one that are being made by the high dollar makers.

So recently I got to a quilt shop in a college town and snagged several colors of Petersham. I went with a dark brown for this project, and the ribbon was the final touch.

Wow!

It really sets off the project.

Now it is fully worth the cost of a new sweatband.

I think I paid twice for the ribbon what I paid for the hat[huh]

How's that for dumb luck?

Sam