The Button Tucked Tie

[Steven180]

Question here. Pictures and movies from the Golden Era often demonstrate U.S. servicemen tucking in their ties between the third and fourth shirt buttons. I am speculating that this was a practical approach that happened to look good as well, especially when not wearing a uniform jacket/blouse. This has always been a Golden Era trademark to me that works.

Is there a term or reference to this? Was it covered in official uniform regulations? Why did it fall out of favor? Any other history to this that anyone might know about?

I have tried this, in civilian clothes, and have had good reactions. Tried not to be too audacious and have used only with solid, modest ties on basic color and fit shirts. But the affect always seems to first raise an eyebrow, then a question, and then always a compliment so far. Nowadays this works best with a modern, conservative approach, but I enjoy relocating a small, classic touch to today.

I attempted to search for this information in the forum so I wouldn‘t undermine or repeat another thread, but to no avail. I apologize if I’ve missed it somewhere else.

Any other thoughts...?

M.

 

[Widebrim]

It was regulation in the U.S. Army/Air Forces until the introduction of the short-sleeved, Class B shirt in the early 1960s. From that time on, until the early 1980s, a Soldier couldn't wear a long-sleeve shirt alone with a tie, because the long-sleeve shirt was only worn with the Class A uniform jacket (not sure about the USAF). When long sleeves were re-introduced as part of the Class B uniform in the '80s, regulations stated that the tie had to be worn completely outside the shirt (with or without tie bar/pin). As a note, author William Manchester wrote in Goodbye, Darkness that some of his fellow Marines were criticized for tucking their ties in Army-style.

While tucking the necktie in looks good on a uniform shirt, I don't think that it does on a civilian shirt .

 

[Tango Yankee]

Widebrim,

I can't speak to the Golden Era, but I can say that in the USAF the long-sleeve shirt with tie and without the uniform jacket was an approved uniform combo in 1980 when I joined. You could not/cannot wear the long-sleeve shirt without a tie, in fact. At my first duty station (HQ SAC) the uniform of the day in winter was that combination. Those of us who worked around computer printers generally tucked our ties into our shirts in that fashion as a safety precaution. We didn't want it getting caught in any moving parts while we were working around one.

Cheers,
Tom

PS Now that I think of it, I think the uniform of the day requirement was simply to wear a uniform combination that included a tie, but wearing the short-sleeve shirt in winter in Nebraska wasn't the thing to do. With that thin all-weather coat you wanted as much layering as you could get! In fact, people often wore a civilian layer under the all-weather in order to stay warm in the Nebraska winter.

 

[Big Man]

Wearing a tie tucked in apparently isn't just a "military thing". Here is a picture of my grandfather and my aunt taken around 1925. I have a couple more where he is wearing his tie tucked in, with one picture with his tie like that was taken in 1904. I don't know if it was just something he liked or if there was some reason he had it that way at the time the pictures were taken. I have several pictures where his tie is not tucked in, so the tucked in tie was not his "usual" style.

 

[Yeps]

In catholic school we generally tucked our ties like that when we would play basketball during lunch break.

 

[Johnnysan]

I picked this habit up from my dad who served in WWII. I do this all the time when dining at lunch. It has saved me many trips to the dry cleaners and a few of my favorite ties!

 

[sproily]

Popular with golfers of the 20's, I'd suppose.

 

[Steven180]

Much appreciation to Widebrim and Tango Yankee for the detailed information and to all others for their contributions. I was worried that this would be too obscure and particular a subject, but it still remained one very exclusive to this era.

I, personally, enjoy the understated practice occasionally, and have had praise on the technique. I had a Gunnery Sergeant in the Marine Corps who always used to say "Set your own style." And I enjoy those things that distinguish you from others in good taste and class. I can't imagine a better era to get inspiration from.

M.

 

[Fly Boy]

I've always thought it was a nice casual look. Works best with modest ties, particularly knitted ones.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

We have a pic of my Gramps somewhere where he has his tie tuckes in & he was a civilan in WWII when the pic was taken.

 

[carldelo]

I also tuck my tie in sometimes during lunch.

Also, if I'm visiting, working or teaching in one of our engineering labs without a jacket to corral the tie, I tuck the tie in to keep it clear of moving parts and greasy surfaces. I suppose I could get a lab coat with my name on it and leave the tie in place, but sometimes it's too hot for that.

 

[Marla]

Informative threads like this is why I love the FL. Keep the facts coming.

 

[Steven180]

Wanted to post this to complete most of the uniform angle...I actually found this site referencing the 1942 Uniform Regulations while exploring some of the older threads in the WWII Forum; thanks to all who provided that then. After some earlier searching of the web on my own I was sure I was going to have to purchase a copy to get accurate findings...


http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/ww2/post_regulations.htm

Post Regulations
(Rev. 4/10/42)

Section XVII - Uniform Regulations

2. Prescribed Uniform for Enlisted Men.
Winter Service Uniform...

6. The shirt, cotton, tan, may be worn with the coat, woolen, OD, at all times except during ceremonies and inspections but will not be worn as an outer garment during the wool season.
7. The necktie will be tucked in between the first (collar) and second buttons of the shirt, when the coat, woolen, OD, is not worn.

It additionally shows a drawing that supports the regulation stating the tie will be tucked in "between the first and second buttons" when most actual pictures show the second and third button were used.

Apologize if this is a geek trip; just find the style and regs interesting, especially since uniforms today don't compare in style or utility.

Anyone?
M.

 

[Steven180]

Widebrim,

Also a real quick thanks to you Sir for reminding me of a long, lost classic - Goodbye, Darkness. Read it in high school, required reading in the Marine Corps, and will likely be for the boys in my family.

I also remember in college studying the controversies between Manchester and the Kennedy's over his works on JFKs assassination. A good author.
Off subject, sorry.
M.

 

[Widebrim]

Widebrim,

Also a real quick thanks to you Sir for reminding me of a long, lost classic - Goodbye, Darkness. Read it in high school, required reading in the Marine Corps, and will likely be for the boys in my family.

I also remember in college studying the controversies between Manchester and the Kennedy's over his works on JFKs assassination. A good author.
Off subject, sorry.
M.

Yes, Goodbye, Darkness is quite a read.

 

[Feraud]

Wearing a tie tucked in apparently isn't just a "military thing". Here is a picture of my grandfather and my aunt taken around 1925. I have a couple more where he is wearing his tie tucked in, with one picture with his tie like that was taken in 1904. I don't know if it was just something he liked or if there was some reason he had it that way at the time the pictures were taken. I have several pictures where his tie is not tucked in, so the tucked in tie was not his "usual" style.

I love seeing pictures of people with their pets.
Now on to the speculatin'.. Does it look like your grandfather has his jacket sleeves pushed up too? Or is it the result of tossing a stick around with his dog? If he had been active outdoors could(would?) he have tucked his tie in his shirt to keep from flapping around in his face? I would.. Anyone who has worn period ties knows activity and wind will get your tie flapping like crazy.

 

[Woodfluter]

I used to wear a tie to school every day, then later at work for years. If you're leaning over a table with charts, or walking outdoors in the wind, or playing with the dog like Big Man's granddad, tucking it in is the practical thing. I suspect most folks did.

If you count collar as button one, I've always found between #s 3&4 to be quickest and easiest to arrange, but between #s 2&3 looks better.

Tie bars help, but they're a nuisance mostly to me. One problem with tucking is the potential for staining. Especially outdoors i warmer weather. With an undershirt (vest for you UK'ers) this is mitigated, but I've always sweated far too much for that most of the year, so I don't do this with good silk ties except very briefly. It works fine with cotton or wool ties, however. What were/are military uniform ties made of?

- Bill

 

[Widebrim]

^^They were made out of wool or cotton years ago, and now are basically available in cotton, polyester, and or a combination of the two.

 

[Big Man]

I love seeing pictures of people with their pets.
Now on to the speculatin'.. Does it look like your grandfather has his jacket sleeves pushed up too? Or is it the result of tossing a stick around with his dog? If he had been active outdoors could(would?) he have tucked his tie in his shirt to keep from flapping around in his face? I would.. Anyone who has worn period ties knows activity and wind will get your tie flapping like crazy.

I think his jacket sleeves must have been pulled up (or ridden up) as a result of the dog. The picture below, with my aunt Sara, was taken a minute or two before or after the one I posted first. I'm sure the two photos were taken within minutes of each other, as the shadows of the trees on the house are exactly the same.

 

[Justin B]

I've actually spotted this in a few movies from the golden era and not just military dress, but civilian as well.