The American Abroad - How to polish up the image?

[Curt Chiarelli]

Eh then you get things like the lovely family I had today.

Son and I went to the store so he could spend his allowance he saved up to buy this one item. We get to the store and went to park. I own an older, and ugly, car. This guy in a beamer sees me pulling in, and whips through the spot behind it and takes the ones I'm almost in, and he and his wife smirk at me.

So, we park in the spot he vacated. Now, this isn't a close spot, kind of middish. Family exits car, talkng about how much money they have and how great it is to take parking spots like that. It's a rush.

Son and I gather up to go inside, and hear all this. My windows are down (I'm a smoker, and it's a nice night) so it's crystal clear.

My son asks if this is a good reason to act that way. I tell him no. He then asks if money makes you act differently. I reply no and tell him that some people are so unhappy that they have to try to ruin other people's day. He watches them for a moment, and asks me if money makes it okay to not have manners. I tell him no again. He shakes his head and says "well they suck." So he opens the door, and the woman rushes to pass before he can get out and sighs loudly and tells him to move. I get out and bristle (because this is my baby, and you don't mess with my baby) and before I can say a word my son pops out, closes the door and tells her "I'm sorry you're in such a hurry that you have to be all grumpy and mean". She turns red and says "you have a rude <expletive deleted> brat." I replied "That's okay, you have debt to your eyeballs, a husband that has to prove his masculinity by being a jerk and the manners of a goat. I think I got the better end of the deal."

On the way in, my son asks me what's wrong with people. What do you tell them? "People suck" is about all I can say.

Elaina

Well Elaina, I can tell you right now, I don't think you'd like the Bay Area one bit - out here those types are as common as Black Angus meadow muffins in a cow pasture and just as appealing, too! And congratulations on giving them a piece of your mind! Matei is right: if everyone began standing up to these clowns we might actually engineer a society that's more civil and benevolent. Suffering in silence and appeasement-at-any-price is a losing proposition - for all concerned.

 

[Air Boss]

We get to the store and went to park. I own an older, and ugly, car. This guy in a beamer sees me pulling in, and whips through the spot behind it and takes the ones I'm almost in, and he and his wife smirk at me.

My son asks if this is a good reason to act that way. I tell him no. He then asks if money makes you act differently. I reply no and tell him that some people are so unhappy that they have to try to ruin other people's day. He watches them for a moment, and asks me if money makes it okay to not have manners. I tell him no again.

I get out and bristle (because this is my baby, and you don't mess with my baby) and before I can say a word my son pops out, closes the door and tells her "I'm sorry you're in such a hurry that you have to be all grumpy and mean". She turns red and says "you have a rude <expletive deleted> brat." I replied "That's okay, you have debt to your eyeballs, a husband that has to prove his masculinity by being a jerk and the manners of a goat. I think I got the better end of the deal."

On the way in, my son asks me what's wrong with people. What do you tell them? "People suck" is about all I can say.

Elaina

It's a shame you can't legislate stupidity. I live in a tourist area and see rude people all the time. Seems they believe they can berate locals because they are gracing us with their disposable income. When they harrass a local deli clerk, store employee, witress, etc. I usually do two things -

1. Call them on their behavior since the employee can't. I will tell them they are being rude and that we don't appreciate it. Some times the offender will get embarrassed and apologize but most often they get angry, mumble and go away. I have never had anybody come back at me, they are typical bullies picking only on the weak.

2. Seek out the manager/owner and compliment the employee. I tell them I am a local who spends his money in their store year round because they have such good employees. Again, I have never had an owner/manager get upset at me for calling a bully to task.

Keep teaching those life lessons to your son. We need more civility in America.

One last thing, I'm in the middle of a good book on the subject; Rude Awakening - Overcoming The Civility Crisis in The Workplace by Giovinella Gonthier. Not a bad read and you can get it in the library for free (gotta love that).

 

[Air Boss]

Well Elaina, I can tell you right now, I don't think you'd like the Bay Area one bit - out here those types are as common as Black Angus meadow muffins in a cow pasture and just as appealing, too!

Too funny. We have them here in the Northeast as well. I'll have to keep your description in mind the next time I run into one.

 

[Air Boss]

My Limited Experiences

I have only travelled to Europe and most of that was a result of my military career. I have run into rude people of all backgrounds and I'm sure that I was an Ugly American on more than one ocassion. Many have already said it better han I could; when we travel we are guests and should act accordingly.

I found that learning a bit about the land I was going to before I got there was a great benefit, hopefully that reduced the number of faux pas I was guilty of. The internet has an incredible amount of infomration on anywhere you may be headed.

The other thing I did was invest in a small phrasebook. Berlitz made (still makes?) a great series that include pages that you can point to if you need help. There are pages explaining that you are not a local (usually readily apparent) and that you need to find a police officer, hospital, etc. Thank goodness I never needed these pages but it was a relief knowing they were there for me.

Even in a small town I found that if I tried to speak the language, no matter how poorly, I was treated well. Most Europeans know some English and you can muddle through most situations. I really believe starting a conversationin their language sends a great message.

One final tought. I grew up playing soccer not American football. I have found this a great ice breaker. Asking about the local (or national) team usually leads to an evening of loud conversation, beer and laughter. Some of my fondest travel memories include watching a match and the post match pub trip.

 

[matei]

You are spot-on regarding the phrasebook. Even something as simple as "thank you" in the language of the host country goes a long way.

Often people will be thrilled that you made the effort - especially if it is a hard language to master, like Hungarian! (speaking from personal experience!)

And for those that do decide to barge ahead with an English-only mindset... If someone doesn't understand English, speaking even more loudly and slowly isn't going to help matters!

Case in point - I saw a Spanish woman terrorise a tour guide at the Cliffs of Moher recently, she wanted to know where the loo was, but the guide thought that she was angry about something. She just kept getting louder and louder, but in Spanish. I thought she was going to push him over the cliffs...

 

[BellyTank]

Nope. I don't hang out with too many soccer Moms.

Since I am high waisted, should I now eshew all international travel?

It's really more of a crotch thing than a waist thing.

Your waist shouldn't need to hinder your travel plans.

Happy Holidays...


B
T

 

[Elaina]

Rudeness is a worldwide epidemic.

I've got family in the Bay area, and family in the backwoods of Tennessee. People act the same in both places. Rudeness is more common now then politeness anywhere you go.

I don't really care for people, but I'm not sure a 15 year long career in the food service industry isn't to blame for that. I've been all over the place, and you have nice people, and not so nice people from all kinds of walks of life, professions and religious backgrounds. It's not localized in one area. One of the sweetest people I've ever met was from Russia shortly after the cold war was over (heck of a shock to him to come to small town Texas and meet someone that thought Russia was pretty, the culture cool, and didn't know they were supposed to not like someone because of his country) , but I've met someone else from Russia that was so unpleasant I felt like choking him on a bottle of vodka. It's the same anywhere you go. Sad, it's more unusual to meet a nice person then it is to meet one that's not. And then they wonder why more and more people have social anxiety.

People all over are just embracing rudeness. Children are growing up with no manners (remind me one day to tell you about going to my son's class for an expo on sewing that turned into an expo on manners) and adults aren't teaching them because it takes too much time away from personal pursuits in our disposable society.

Elaina

 

[Barry]

On the way in, my son asks me what's wrong with people. What do you tell them? "People suck" is about all I can say.

Elaina

I was in Vegas last January and on the return flight I experienced a pretty upsetting incident. I took off my shoes and a leg brace that I wear and put them in a plastic tray for the X-Ray machine. The brace is over a foot long, slips in my shoe, runs up behind my leg. It straps underneath my knee. I can limp without it but not very far or for very long. I have foot drop and my foot will flop down without it.

I made it through the metal detector and I was waiting for my bucket and limping towards the end of the conveyor. I grabbed my bucket and starting walking and realized that it would be easier and safer for me to just put my shoes back on rather than limp around with the bucket.

I started to put my shoe and brace on (which takes about as much time as it would take for someone to tie a shoe, maybe even less) and I guess the guard held the line up for a few seconds while I did it.

A guy and his girlfriend or wife walk by me and the guy stops and says very loudly "You know, it's really nice of you to sit there like that and hold everyone up." I was just stunned. I'm not proud of what I said to him afterwards.

Barry

 

[Elaina]

I started to put my shoe and brace on (which takes about as much time as it would take for someone to tie a shoe, maybe even less) and I guess the guard held the line up for a few seconds while I did it.

A guy and his girlfriend or wife walk by me and the guy stops and says very loudly "You know, it's really nice of you to sit there like that and hold everyone up." I was just stunned. I'm not proud of what I said to him afterwards.

Barry

Makes no sense. I'm never in that big of a hurry I have to act like that. Or getting onto an onramp I have to hop on a cell phone, speed around them and cut them off, which happens to me on a daily basis. Common coutesy is a thing of the past.

Braces are something I'm sure you'd probably rather do without, but it's also a necessity for you. Putting it back on shouldn't be a big deal. My son and I saw 2 teenagers almost knock a woman off her feet using a walker because they were in a hurry and pushed past her. I won't repeat what I said to them, but, you know, I don't even know what to say about it. It's a downright shame.

People suck, I tell you. And you can bet, if this is happening in the USA, they're the kinds of folks that act that much worse overseas.

Elaina

 

[raiderrescuer]

Travels...

Whatever happened to the phrase "When in Rome do as the Romans"?
I think part of it is Americans not studying the culture they are about to visit...they go to Country X because it's the current rage according to the Media or Travel Agency and not even think about what is appropriate.
In some cases the person is being sent against their wishes by their company (Uncle Sam included) so they do so begrudgingly. They in turn make their own time in the country unbearable.
Learn a few phrases, get a basic understanding of the host country's etiquette and try to be on your best behavior!


Here's a good start for study:
http://www.executiveplanet.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

 

[Baron Kurtz]

And for those that do decide to barge ahead with an English-only mindset... If someone doesn't understand English, speaking even more loudly and slowly isn't going to help matters!

Brings back an horrific experience in Paris (where shopworkers are notorious for their refusal to deal with idiots) where another Brit proceeded to shout at increasing levels and getting slower upon each repeat: "I want a pack of fags!". Turns out the assistant could speak english but decided that this guy was enough of an ass that she'd be an ass back and refuse to understand english. I gave him a Gaulois and sent him on his way to find some cigarettes - could hear him coughing all the way down the street. Rather nasty of me, but he was being a terrible ambassador. I'm not sure how the entente cordiale has lasted this long.

I agree with her.

bk

 

[jamespowers]

Well Elaina, I can tell you right now, I don't think you'd like the Bay Area one bit - out here those types are as common as Black Angus meadow muffins in a cow pasture and just as appealing, too!

See? Now that is your problem right there. You live in an area that is reknowned to be the world's largest outdoor loony bin. Obviously you are going to see nuts, ingrates and poltroons everywhere because it is more accepted. It seems where ever there is ocean front property---they are drawn to it. [huh]
I am not making excuses for it but there seems to be a ridiculous acceptance for that kind of stuff around this area---San Franfreako in particular. You Really can't get away from it because it has become pervasive and if you confront it then you are labeled as "intolerant." Give me the Bay Area of 60 years ago. I want my civility back. :rage:

Regards,

J

Regards,

J

 

[jamespowers]

I hear from my mom that Switzerland is one of the best places to visit. She lived there during her summers when she was a teen, she even attended finishing school there! Oh,, the stories I've heard about the skiing and chocolate and the beauty of both th people and the country. I can't wait to go there. But, I've got this big trip to Italia planned, leaving in four weeks, yahoo. So when I get back from that I'll start making arrangements for another trip, possibly to Switzerland. MMMM, lot's of chocolates.

She is quite right about that country. Like I say, if it weren't for the snow it would be perfect.
Italy has a lot to offer as well. I am sure you will find it beautiful and the architecture of old Rome is everywhere. I just had to laugh at some vandal's proclitivity to steal or break off parts of statues that really don't belong in a personal collection.
The people are some of the most welcoming as well but I am probably biased as my mother's sister-in-law had family there and treated us wonderfully. Her brother (Liandro) worked for the Italian Consulate. He had quite the sense of humor.
One thing I like and hate about Italy is that they leave their artifacts in place---even if they are tumbled down and falling apart. It would be nice to see it resurrected but then again it is better than seeing it gone. [huh]

Regards,

J

 

[Curt Chiarelli]

See? Now that is your problem right there. You live in an area that is reknowned to be the world's largest outdoor loony bin. Obviously you are going to see nuts, ingrates and poltroons everywhere because it is more accepted. It seems where ever there is ocean front property---they are drawn to it. [huh]
I am not making excuses for it but there seems to be a ridiculous acceptance for that kind of stuff around this area---San Franfreako in particular. You Really can't get away from it because it has become pervasive and if you confront it then you are labeled as "intolerant." Give me the Bay Area of 60 years ago. I want my civility back. :rage:

Regards,

J

Hi James,

There's far more to it than that. In essense, I'm stuck between Scylla and Charybdis. I came out here to work in the arts/entertainment industry and as we all know, much of it is based in the major metroplitan areas of California (Los Angeles and San Francisco). I would subscribe to the theory that the combination of the faux Mediterranean climate and the uncomfortable confusion between fantasy and reality, desire and hungry necessity is the basis for attracting so many losers and users to this place, like iron filings to a magnet.

Nevertheless, I've always maintained that I was here for purely business reasons, not to "go native". I figured that, since I'm a hardcore individualist and nonconformist, if I kept my head buried in my work this nonsense would roll off my back like water on oilcloth. What I didn't count on is how this culture of narcissism and hollow materialism would penetrate and corrode the fabric of my life, to confound it on even the most basic levels. I admit it was rather naive of me to think otherwise at the time.

I take full responsibility for my actions, but I cannot account for the fact that my talents are what they are or as strong as they are and knowing this I would attempt to make a living from it. A charisma or a curse or a complex blend of both - you decide, but ply my trade I must. I've grown accustomed to three square meals a day. I go where the work is and, so, here I must stay, at least for the time being.

 

[Elaina]

I take full responsibility for my actions, but I cannot account for the fact that my talents are what they are or as strong as they are and knowing this I would attempt to make a living from it. A charisma or a curse or a complex blend of both - you decide, but ply my trade I must. I've grown accustomed to three square meals a day. I go where the work is and, so, here I must stay, at least for the time being.

And there's nothing wrong with it.

We all do what we do for reasons of talent, desire, and necessity. Fashion isn't a nice job, and schools supposed to be less cut throat then work, and you adapt or die. I would imagine it's like that everywhere in every job.

I'm good at what I do. I also know that acting like a diva is the rule of the day and comes with the job, but it doesn't mean that I have to be witchy about it. I see people in styles unsuitable, or whatnot, and it doesn't mean I should go around screaming "But darling! How awful for you! No no no and no!" whilst ripping the clothes from their back. I'm never going the route that that behavior would be seen as acceptable, unless Alexis Arquette decides she's going to wear my stuff exclusively, then I can be as snobby as I want.

I understand that people have to react in a certain way for jobs. I've had to be aggressive and rude to get my foot in a door to show designs, even more aggressive and pushy to get said designs looked at, and aggressive and savvy to get materials cheaper. Sometimes I'm not even polite to people, because I can't be. All of these are things I don't do day-to-day. This is, unfortunately, a requirement of the job I want. To me, there is a fine line in doing what you have to do for work and then reacting the same way outside of work. (Because let's face it, I'm not going to threaten the public at large with a seam ripper if you touch my stuff again.)

So I apologize if I offend here, I know designers outside of working who are as sweet as can be, and some I'd like to drown in a pile of chiffon. Using "I work in an area that rudeness is a way of life" is a cop out. You seem a pleasant enough fellow, one I wouldn't walk away from thinking what a jerk you are. I'm sure if I had to work with you, I'd have a different opinion, but where do you draw the line? Isn't this part of why the thread was created? Because the world at large views Americans as pushy, pampered pretentious prats?

I know wherever you go rudeness IS the way of life. People forget basic human acts like kindnes. And really, isn't that all politeness is? A choice to be nice to people you don't know, or to be kind to people you do know and don't like? If it was adopted again, we wouldm't think "Ah ha! French are rude little snots!" or "American trash!"

Sorry, I woke up in a weird mood this morning. My fabric is delayed. And I had to bite my tounge and be nice about it.

Elaina

 

[Paisley]

Here is a blog post about dressing somewhat native when going abroad:

Manolo for the Men