Terms Which Have Disappeared

[scottyrocks]

To be fair, there was some pretty decent television in 1961 -- the Twilight Zone was at its peak, "Naked City" and "The Defenders" were doing serious, socially-conscious drama, and "Dobie Gillis" and "The Dick Van Dyke Show" were offering comedy that intelligent adults could enjoy without feeling like someone was force-feeding them corn syrup from a gallon jug. Minow himself acknowledged that there were a few things worth watching even from his perspective -- but that didn't change the fact that most of it was ground-out Boys From Marketing slop.

I always enjoyed "Dick Van Dyke" as a kid, but I never was able to *relate* to it -- who did I know who lived in New Rochelle and wrote for a famous TV comedian? The Petries might as well have lived on Neptune for all the similarity they had to anything that I could recognize. The only person I wanted to emulate on that show was Rose Marie, who I liked because she was sarcastic and mouthy.

"Dobie Gillis," which I caught in reruns, I absolutely loved -- because the Gillises were a lot more like us than most TV families. When Dobie's dad mumbled "I gotta kill that boy, I just gotta," he was paraphrasing one of my mother's favorite lines.

My My Little Margieville reference was to the innocence of the era, not the quality of the program, per se.

I could relate to The Dick Van Dyke Show because although I lived in Brooklyn, my Dad's sister's family lived in a mythical (at the time) place called Oceanside, Long Island, a place very similar to the setting in TDVDS.

I never had trouble relating to shows set in places different than my own setting because it was escapism. I could venture to these places in safe manner without leaving my living room, which was all I could hope for as a kid, anyway.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the thing that bothered me was that I *never saw people like us* represented anywhere in the popular culture of the time. Even as a kid I was aware of and thought about the deep class divisions in American society, and television seemed to me to be a really egregious example of how, if something makes you uncomfortable, the American way is to simply pretend it isn't there. The working class was all but invisible in 1960s television, except perhaps as the occasional walk-on or caricature in support of and subservient to the bourgeoisie. Even Herman Munster "went to the office." Even Fred Flinstone, who supposedly worked in a quarry, went to work wearing a tie.

I'd think about this stuff a lot as I was watching TV and wonder about it. I'd watch "Star Trek," for example, and I'd wonder about those anonymous people you'd see walking around in the background in the coveralls -- who were they? Were they the people who actually ran the ship while Kirk and Spock were swanking around on the bridge? I wanted to know about them, but you only ever saw them walking around in the background or getting killed. From a class point of view it was the same way you feel as a little girl when all the heroic characters in popular culture are boys or men -- you feel that this stuff isn't for you. You can read it or watch it because there's nothing else out there, but it isn't *for* you.

One of the things I really loved -- and still love, to this day -- about "Mister Rogers' Neighborhood" was that he always showed a sincere respect for working people. He'd always go on field trips to factories and such, and was always very specific in how he introduced them -- he'd never say "this is how crayons are made," or "this is how bread is baked," or "this is how glass is blown." He'd say "this is how people make crayons," "this is how people bake bread," "this is how people blow glass," and he'd emphasize that nothing happens in the world, anywhere, without the workers who actually do the labor. But he was a rare exception in a world and an era where blue-collar people and blue-collar lives were given very little acknowledgement or respect in the popular culture.

 

[kaiser]

I think the thing that bothered me was that I *never saw people like us* represented anywhere in the popular culture of the time. Even as a kid I was aware of and thought about the deep class divisions in American society, and television seemed to me to be a really egregious example of how, if something makes you uncomfortable, the American way is to simply pretend it isn't there. The working class was all but invisible in 1960s television, except perhaps as the occasional walk-on or caricature in support of and subservient to the bourgeoisie. Even Herman Munster "went to the office." Even Fred Flinstone, who supposedly worked in a quarry, went to work wearing a tie.

I'd think about this stuff a lot as I was watching TV and wonder about it. I'd watch "Star Trek," for example, and I'd wonder about those anonymous people you'd see walking around in the background in the coveralls -- who were they? Were they the people who actually ran the ship while Kirk and Spock were swanking around on the bridge? I wanted to know about them, but you only ever saw them walking around in the background or getting killed. From a class point of view it was the same way you feel as a little girl when all the heroic characters in popular culture are boys or men -- you feel that this stuff isn't for you. You can read it or watch it because there's nothing else out there, but it isn't *for* you.

One of the things I really loved -- and still love, to this day -- about "Mister Rogers' Neighborhood" was that he always showed a sincere respect for working people. He'd always go on field trips to factories and such, and was always very specific in how he introduced them -- he'd never say "this is how crayons are made," or "this is how bread is baked," or "this is how glass is blown." He'd say "this is how people make crayons," "this is how people bake bread," "this is how people blow glass," and he'd emphasize that nothing happens in the world, anywhere, without the workers who actually do the labor. But he was a rare exception in a world and an era where blue-collar people and blue-collar lives were given very little acknowledgement or respect in the popular culture.

Lizzie, I know exactly what you are talking about, your description is right on. I grew up in the 1960's and was confronted with what you describe all the time. My dad was a factory and construction worker, union member and blue collar to the core and would always point out to my brother and I that what we saw on television was not real, it was a show and nothing more. Real people like himself and my mom were the ones that did things out there, some times it was dirty, and not glamorous, but necessary. Television during that period just did not show that which made, I think a great number of people in my / our generation strive for a way of life that just was not realistic or attainable for them.

 

[Fading Fast]

Lizzie, I know exactly what you are talking about, your description is right on. I grew up in the 1960's and was confronted with what you describe all the time. My dad was a factory and construction worker, union member and blue collar to the core and would always point out to my brother and I that what we saw on television was not real, it was a show and nothing more. Real people like himself and my mom were the ones that did things out there, some times it was dirty, and not glamorous, but necessary. Television during that period just did not show that which made, I think a great number of people in my / our generation strive for a way of life that just was not realistic or attainable for them.

Growing up at the same time as you and Lizzie, TV did not reflect my household or life, but I also didn't (as a kid) aspire to it either. I liked that the parents on TV were more engaged and less my-way-or-the-highway than mine, but so what, we all as kids at least half knew TV was fake. And the lifestyle - the homes, the cars, the clothes, the new appliances - was something so foreign to me, that it might as well have been "Lost in Space:" it wasn't aspirational for me, just otherworldly.

But in reading this thread, I'm beginning to learn that maybe some / many kids of my generation saw "The Dick Van Dyke" show or "Father Knows Best" or "The Courtship of Eddie's Father" (that guy had money) as a goal, an aspiration, a way of life to shoot for. I was just worried about not having to live through another Depression like my parents did (and told me about all the time), so I was always much more worried about not going backwards to think that much about going forward. Maybe it was their constant fear of the Depression returning, which so dominated the mood of our house, that caused the aspirational aspect of those shows pass me by.

 

[Jayessgee]

I am not wading through 117 pages to see if these have already been listed! Anyway, here's my 2 bits worth. By the way, in case nobody has mentioned it, the origin of that expression comes from the American frontier where coinage was rare. Very often there was insufficient hard money (another obsolete term) to make change so coins were cut into "bits" by cutting into quarters and and again as needed making eights. Thus "2 bits" was a "quarter" or 25 cents. Another obsolete thing apparently is the symbol for "cents?," a diagonal line through the letter "c" as neither my keyboard nor basic font sets seem to carry one.

Another variation on obsolete terms are not necessarily the words themselves as much as pronunciation. Prior to and perhaps through, WWII (I am not sure when the change occurred but do not think it carried into the 1950s) "aviator" with a long vowel "A" was pronounced with a short "A" as in "avenue." "Radiator" was pronounced the same way. There were others I know but these are all I can think of at the moment.

I am 60 years old but was born to depression era parents so many of these older terms were and still are used by me. Anybody still say "tin foil' though it's been long since replaced by aluminum? There are some old phrases caused by english as a second language as well as time. My Grandpa came though Elllis Island in 1911. He was a Croat, Often times my dad would say "close the light." that was a result of grandpa's translating "Zapata lampa" Hrvat for "close the lamp" the means of turning off an oil lamp which is what was used in his village in the "old country" yet another long unused term.

 

[tonyb]

Nice to have you aboard, Jayessgee. It hadn't occurred to me, until you mentioned it, that the cents symbol has all but disappeared.

As to Lizzie et al's observations on TV characters ... I noted, way back in my high school days, that TV characters were rarely seen watching TV, which I took as perhaps the most telling illustration of how TV was a poor reflection of life as we actually lived it.

 

[LizzieMaine]

That was another way in which All In The Family broke ground -- not only did Archie watch TV regularly, he also argued with it.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Television during that period just did not show that which made, I think a great number of people in my / our generation strive for a way of life that just was not realistic or attainable for them.

I have a grown niece who's spent her entire life in deep, angry, poisonous frustration over the fact that her family doesn't sit around an elegant, tasteful living room at Christmastime, exchanging elegant, tasteful gifts and sipping elegant, tasteful wine like the people do in the TV commercials. It'd be ridiculous if it wasn't for the fact that she is so deadly serious about it.

 

[ChiTownScion]

I have a grown niece who's spent her entire life in deep, angry, poisonous frustration over the fact that her family doesn't sit around an elegant, tasteful living room at Christmastime, exchanging elegant, tasteful gifts and sipping elegant, tasteful wine like the people do in the TV commercials. It'd be ridiculous if it wasn't for the fact that she is so deadly serious about it.

I wasn't deadly serious about it, but at age 12-13, I really did wish that I had Barbara Eden living in a bottle on my bedroom dresser ("I Dream of Jeannie"). Healthy 60's American boy fantasy, I'm sure.

 

[Stearmen]

I wasn't deadly serious about it, but at age 12-13, I really did wish that I had Barbara Eden living in a bottle on my bedroom dresser ("I Dream of Jeannie"). Healthy 60's American boy fantasy, I'm sure.

Yes, yes it was!

 

[Stanley Doble]

It never occurred to me that a TV show or movie should resemble real life, let alone my life. Those shows took place in some magic land of imagination. The difference between a Twilight Zone episode and Leave It To Beaver was one of degree. Both took place in worlds of their own. Neither resembled the world I lived in. That is what I liked about them. If I had seen a show that reminded me of my life I would have immediately turned it off. Why would I watch some boring show when I could turn around and have the real thing?

 

[Stanley Doble]

If your niece is grown up I don't know why she can't have any kind of Christmas she likes. From what you tell me if she wants an elegant sophisticated Christmas she won't be able to invite any of your family but she wouldn't be missing much.

 

[2jakes]

It never occurred to me that a TV show or movie should resemble real life, let alone my life. Those shows took place in some magic land of imagination. The difference between a Twilight Zone episode and Leave It To Beaver was one of degree. Both took place in worlds of their own. Neither resembled the world I lived in. That is what I liked about them. If I had seen a show that reminded me of my life I would have immediately turned it off. Why would I watch some boring show when I could turn around and have the real thing?

I totally agree !
And this was not boring, but very sad .
I remember the sounds of the drums that were played during the JFK funeral .
There were only three stations available & all were showing the same thing all day.

Watching live, Jack Ruby get shot on television, all I could think of is one word,
“surreal” !

This was my first “real” disturbing realization that this was a crazy world I was
growing up in.

 

[LizzieMaine]

If your niece is grown up I don't know why she can't have any kind of Christmas she likes. From what you tell me if she wants an elegant sophisticated Christmas she won't be able to invite any of your family but she wouldn't be missing much.

She can do as she likes -- I haven't seen her in five years. I feel sorry for her more than anything else -- from what I hear of her, we have a lot more *fun* than she does.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It never occurred to me that a TV show or movie should resemble real life, let alone my life. Those shows took place in some magic land of imagination. The difference between a Twilight Zone episode and Leave It To Beaver was one of degree. Both took place in worlds of their own. Neither resembled the world I lived in. That is what I liked about them. If I had seen a show that reminded me of my life I would have immediately turned it off. Why would I watch some boring show when I could turn around and have the real thing?

If I really wanted to use my imagination, why would I bother with television at all -- there's nothing especially imaginative about mass-produced slop ground out to sell you stuff. I'd go climb up a tree, as I often did, with a Big Chief tablet and a pencil, and I'd write a story of my own.

I found early on that if I couldn't identify in some way with the protagonists or setting of a show it was very hard for me to particularly care about them, and if I didn't care about them, why should I watch them? This didn't mean everything had to be just like my life, but it did mean there had to be elements that I could relate to. Formulaic scripts and formulaic characters rarely presented this, so I had, and still have, little interest in them. You've seen one, you've seen them all, and you might as well just stare at a blank screen.

Family-type shows didn't have to be bland and formulaic. If you listen to "Vic and Sade" on radio, you'll find some of the most brilliantly-written American humor of the twentieth century. "The Great Gildersleeve" on radio took a family format and expanded it into the story of an entire small town, with all sorts of people from all walks of life. "The Andy Griffith Show" -- which had a former "Gildersleeve" writer on its staff -- came as close as any sixties-era television show could to to capturing this sort of scope, although it offered very little for a young girl to identify with. And "Dick Van Dyke" had a former cast member from "Vic and Sade" on its writing staff. The talent and the skill to do good scripts was there -- but too often television simply didn't care enough to bother. Cheap, shallow formula was king. People remember shows they watched when they were eight years old with great fondness -- because they were written for an eight year old mentality.

I'm not just picking on Boomer-era television, either. Most of eighties television was even worse, if such a thing is possible.

 

[MisterCairo]

^^^

Are you suggesting shows like Knight Rider, the A-Team and Alf weren't examples of good quality entertainment?!

Granted, they were no "Baywatch", but still...

 

[2jakes]

If I really wanted to use my imagination, why would I bother with television at all -- there's nothing especially imaginative about mass-produced slop ground out to sell you stuff. I'd go climb up a tree, as I often did, with a Big Chief tablet and a pencil, and I'd write a story of my own..............

Never was too keen with this tablet when I was in the first grade,
but it was cheap & the only thing around until I went to a higher
grade. I couldn’t erase a mistake without tearing up the darn paper.

And I made many “erasures” a kid !

 

[BobHufford]

2jakes -- you're not trying hard enough. Barcodes and .com?

 

[2jakes]

2jakes -- you're not trying hard enough. Barcodes and .com?

Like my baseball cards & golden age comics.....
Big Chief went the “way of the dodo”.....

Thanks mom !

ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha !

 

[LizzieMaine]

I have a stack of them, which I use to keep inventory at work. I call them my I-Pad, but the kids don't get the joke.