Stetson Open Road/Quality Designation Project

[jimmy the lid]

Well, since it's Super Sunday, I decided to engage in a little project this morning. Over coffee, I have assembled Stetson Open Roads (and one western) in every quality designation for a head-to-head comparison.

Let me start by saying that comparing felt qualities is not necessarily an easy thing to do. I think that our perception of the felt is colored by a number of factors, such as the quality of the finish, the weight of the felt, the stiffness of the felt, etc. Some of these factors may, in fact, be related to the actual composition of the felt itself (rabbit, hare, beaver) -- but that's not always true. So, it's a difficult exercise -- and, obviously, a highly subjective one.

In order for any kind of felt comparison to be meaningful, it seems to me that it's critical to be comparing lids that are very close together in time. It goes without saying that, over time, the "quality" of lids sharing the exact same marketing/quality designation will differ -- for example, one would expect that a mid-60's 3X OR selling for $15 would be of a lesser quality than a similar lid from the early 50's selling for the same price.

So, my control group this morning consists of a Royal Stetson, a Royal Deluxe Stetson, a 3X Beaver Quality, a Sovereign/Stetson 20, a Stetson 25, a 7X Clear Beaver and a Stetson 100. With the exception of the Stetson 25, which is a western, all of the lids are Open Roads. I am reasonably confident that all of these lids date to circa 1950.

So, here's how it stacks up...

The Royal Stetson, while being at the bottom of the marketing/quality designation heap, is actually a very nice piece of felt. The next step up is the Royal DeLuxe -- and, honestly, I cannot discern any meaningful difference in terms of felt quality. It has always been a bit of a mystery as to what actually justified the additional $2.50 in terms of pricing over the Royal Stetson. Perhaps there was a slight change to the fur blend, or perhaps the finishing was just a tad smoother -- but who knows? From my perspective, as a practical matter, I can't really discern a particularly meaningful difference.

Moving on to the 3X -- the felt feels discernibly more dense and a bit smoother in terms of finish. Was there beaver fur in a 3X Beaver Quality? The answer is that none of us really know. Given the increased density and smoothness, however, I would have no trouble believing that beaver had been introduced into the mix, if even in just a small percentage. Another possibility is that the fur blend changed in other ways -- in terms of different grades of rabbit or hare. Once again, I have absolutely no way of knowing. But, in terms of this project, I would say that the 3X represents a discernible, but still subtle, increase in felt quality.

Now, on to the Sovereign/Stetson 20. Here is where, IMHO, there really is a quantum leap in terms of felt quality. The felt takes on much more of the feel of a beaver lid -- it is dense and smooth. Really, a fantastic quality level. My own sense is that, back in the day, this quality designation was pretty much the top of the heap in terms of everyday retail sales of Stetsons. Of course, there were higher designations available, but the Sovereign was no slouch. A very nice quality of felt. I wouldn't even begin to suggest that I am knowledgeable in terms of accurately assessing fur content and blends -- I'll leave that to our pros. But, I would completely buy the proposition that the Sovereign is at least 50% beaver (and may well be a higher percentage). Whether it is or not, who knows? But in terms of perception of the felt, it certainly has this feel for me.

The Stetson "25" represents a discernible step up in felt quality from the Sovereign. Like the Sovereign, the felt is dense, but it is smoother and more substantial. Is the "25" a 100% beaver lid? After this morning's experiment, I'm not willing to rule that out. In order to assist me, I compared it to a couple of custom lids I have that are made of Winchester 100% beaver felt. The "25" compares very favorably to the Winchester beaver felt. Does the "25" fall a hare short (pun intended ) of pure beaver? Maybe. But, once again, in terms of perception -- I find the "25" to be in that general ballpark.

The 7X Clear Beaver introduces the "ahhhh" factor. You can't help yourself -- the felt feels that good. Compared to the "25", the felt is more dense. But, the incredibly striking feature is the nature of the finish -- it is smooth as a baby's bottom. Just amazing. What accounts for this? Finishing techniques, certainly. But, I would imagine that part of this feel may also have to do with a higher grade of beaver fur being used. The quality of felt and finish is, in a word, superlative.

Last, but certainly not least -- the Stetson "100". Well, what can I say? Just an amazing experience. In terms of comparing it to the 7X, I perceive two palpable differences. First, my sense is that the felt is "super" dense -- compared to the 7X, the difference is subtle, but it's there. The second difference has to do with the finish -- so smooth that it's like a skating rink. Is the beaver fur of a higher grade than that used on the 7X? It would be interesting to find out. One way or the other, it really is an extraordinary felt.

Looking back over this project, I tend to put all of these lids into two groupings. The first group consists of the Royal, Royal DeLuxe, 3X Beaver Quality and the Sovereign/Stetson 20 -- with the Sovereign being the King of the bunch (no coincidence that Stetson chose the "Sovereign" moniker, methinks). The second group is comprised of the "25", the 7X Clear Beaver and the "100."

So, there you have it. I don't pretend to have the knowledge or expertise to offer meaningful conclusions regarding the precise composition of any given felt. My purpose in making this post is a practical one: namely, to catalogue my perception of how these different quality designations compare -- as if I had walked into a hat store in 1950 and was trying to distinguish between these designations for purposes of buying a new Stetson.

Hope this serves a useful purpose.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

... better than football any day. Great write up and really helps "figure" what the quality designations might mean.

 

[handlebar bart]

Thanks Jimmy. Expert assessment, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Thanks, guys.

I just want to be clear that I am not pretending to offer the final word on anything -- so, if people have different impressions about lids they have come across, I'm hoping this thread can engender some interesting discussion.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[Lefty]

I'd love to get my hands on a 50s 100. While the 60s version I owned had felt that was equal (in my estimation) to the 7xCB, I cannot say it was better. With the thinner sweat that came with the 60s hats, for me, the 50s 7xCB is superior to the 60s 100.

In terms of the 25 vs. the CB (both 50s hats), I share your opinion. The 25 has a wonderful feel, well beyond almost any other hat I've handled, but the CB (and the 60s 100) are the reason for the "almost".

Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts.

 

[RBH]

Great info Jim, what about a photo of the hats so we can 'see' what you are talking about.
Maybe one or two of the hats together.

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks for sharing these reflections, Jim. My impressions are very close to yours, with the exception of my 25 - a later model with a dense, but soft and somewhat wooly felt. I worked it over 3 times before I got a good bash to stick. Who knows how many styles were made in the 25 dollar designation... probably a gazillion. I've yet to find anyone with less than raves for a 7X Clear Beaver. Not sure of the range of production on this felt... both of mine are late 40s/early 50s, and they are both sublime.

I would guess that Stetson and other makers found naming hats for their retail price impractical once inflation took off in the second half of the last century. A 25 dollar hat would have cost almost 70% more to make in 1970 than it did in 1950. Some compromises must have been made, and perhaps this is what we feel comparing the felt from a 1950 hat with a later one. The Stetson 100 model was produced during a shorter period - mid fifties to mid sixties, I believe. During that time, inflation was modest, only 17% over those ten years. But perhaps the decision to keep the qualities of this model unchanged led to a Stetson 150, rather than a cheapening of materials. From my limited sampling, after the superb 7X and 100, my favorite Stetson felt is in my 1930s No. 1 western.

Just guessing at all this, of course. It's kind of like paleontology - trying to figure out what the dinosaur looked like from a small collection of bones. We do have some excellent scientists here... one of the many pleasures in hanging around the lounge.

 

[Michaelshane]

I have two 1960s 25s.
One 1950s 25.
One 1950s 7x CB.
One 1960s One Hundred.
Three 1950s One Hundreds.

They are all silverbelly and everyone of them is a slightly different shade.
The 60s 100 is the stiffest hat of the bunch,but has smooth very luxurious felt.
The other 100s are each different than the other in softness.All have the same smooth incredible felt.
The 7x seems to be the exact same quality as the 100s.
I can change the crease or shape of the brim with no steam or water anytime I want in the 50s 100s or 7x.Not the 1960s 100.
The 1950s twenty five is the softest of all the hats,but holds it's shape perfectly.
The two 1960s twenty fives are wonderful soft hats.Smoother than the 50s one.
If I had to choose one to wear everyday for the rest of my life it would be one of the 25s,they are the most comfortable, wearable of the group.
That's my opinion today,I might change my mind after I own a few more of these,because I intend to buy more.....

 

[gtdean48]

Good stuff Jimmy! Now for your next investigation Chief, how about comparing some other models of similar designation you may be able to do, like a Knox 20 to a Stetson 20?

 

[Mr. Paladin]

Great short treatise on Stetson felt quality, Jimmy. Very interesting reading.

 

[hatophile]

Thanks, JTL, as I only have the standard Stetson OR/Westerns, it is good to know about the other more quality hats out there that were made by Stetson. It would be interesting to see the pics of them, also.

Do you have a sense for what color silverbelly really is? I have several that I assume are silverbelly, but not marked as such, but the lighter colors of the Stetson Westerns and ORs seem to be all over the place, as Michael Shane pointed out.

 

[gtdean48]

...Do you have a sense for what color silverbelly really is? I have several that I assume are silverbelly, but not marked as such, but the lighter colors of the Stetson Westerns and ORs seem to be all over the place, as Michael Shane pointed out.

Not to jump Jimmy's authority here but wanted to add a tid bit.... When we last toured Winchester Hat Co., they had some beaver belly pelts that they were doing exclusive runs for a hatter of pure beaver belly fur felt, the true origin of the color Silver Belly. The color of the hat made from this was a very light gray. They are wearing them in the photos of the High Point dinner on the Monteagle thread = last photo of this post http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...010!-Tennessee&p=980563&viewfull=1#post980563

 

[hatophile]

I like the look of the light gray, but many of mine are more of a greenish-gray or tan color. Maybe not true "silverbelly"?

Great pictures by the way, I don't think I ever saw those.

 

[gtdean48]

I like the look of the light gray, but many of mine are more of a greenish-gray or tan color. Maybe not true "silverbelly"?

Great pictures by the way, I don't think I ever saw those.

Remember, most of those are dyed to a color the felter comes up with as "Silver Belly". A 7X CB will be Clear Beaver = undyed beaver fur felt but not necessarily all beaver fur from the belly of the beaver. For the lighter colors, they take the felt & bleach it, then apply the dye.

 

[hatophile]

I see. So the original color of the Beaver belly pelt is a light gray, then the felt is mixed with rabbit fur, and then dyed to the silverbelly color?

 

[azhiker]

Great post, now if someone could come up with a reliable way to date the Open road.

 

[gtdean48]

I see. So the original color of the Beaver belly pelt is a light gray, then the felt is mixed with rabbit fur, and then dyed to the silverbelly color?

Well sure. I am not sure how much beaver belly fur is going to get used for a rabbit/beaver blend. I'm betting those will get the regular beaver fur blended with rabbit. Also, you have to figure there is regular beaver fur felt, beaver belly fur felt & then a blend of those to certain levels. That may be why you see the differences in the 25, 50/7X & the 100 by Stetson. They are all pure beaver but the 50 & 100 may have higher levels of belly fur. Who knows??? The way Winchester folks put it, the beaver belly is like down & the other beaver fur is like the rest of the feathers.
I have 2 hats from Winchester that are undyed pure beaver, sort of a mottled brownish color. As I understand it, my Stetson 100 is also undyed beaver according to some of the catalog writings I have read.
To get some of the lighter colors, like Blue Smoke, Winchester takes the undyed beaver & bleaches it then dyes it. They don't bleach it for the darker colors. That is why the lightweight Blue Smoke feels lighter than the Pecan lightweight I have. Bleaching takes some body out of the felt.

 

[gtdean48]

Great post, now if someone could come up with a reliable way to date the Open road.

It is on a stone tablet right next to the Holy Grail!!!!!

 

[danofarlington]

I wonder if X content of beaver, or model name, is analagous to purchasing undercoating on a car. Because no one can tell whether it was ever done, they don't actually apply any coating for the money. If so, then buying some kind of hat with a supposed beaver content might all be fictitious, no?.

 

[gtdean48]

... If so, then buying some kind of hat with a supposed beaver content might all be fictitious, no?.

I know you can look under a microscope & the fur looks different from each animal even in the felt body. Calculating the exact percentage may be a little tricky, not like doing parts per million in quantitative chemistry. That still is not too costly but the damage to reputation of felter or hatter would be too costly, IMHO.