Stetson No. 1 Quality

[RossRYoung]

A beauty with history, what a hat.

Cheers Randy, there’s a cool pdf online from HSU, 2012 class I think, that has a few more classic photos.

I might have been responsible.. Just one of my cockamamie theories of course. Could also be from vampire moths that suck the red ink off of labels.

Thank you, Alan, for both the compliment and genuine LOL.

 

[RossRYoung]

Spent some time last night on the new No. 1 using mild hand soap, which cleaned up the binding nice but no visual effects on the ribbon. Also my very attempt with needle and thread and restoring the bow, I’m happy with the results. Also touched up the few visible moth divots and it’s ready for another outing this weekend. Will share a couple more pics in the pre 40s Stetson western thread then too.

 

[NewJack]

I picked this No. 1 a few weeks ago but it has been on the lounge before. Very nice thin pliable felt. Was sold to me as a 1920’s and does have the old taped rear sweat seam, but the lot # could make 30s?

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Beautiful! I was the owner of this piece and it went to an Asian fella. I purchased it from a fellow Lounger 'splintercellsz. I just didn't get the headtime! Happy to see it has remained in great shape!

 

[RossRYoung]

Beautiful! I was the owner of this piece and it went to an Asian fella. I purchased it from a fellow Lounger 'splintercellsz. I just didn't get the headtime! Happy to see it has remained in great shape!

Thanks NewJack, I had seen it change hands here the couple times and then I bought it from the fifth street market guy in Japan. Glad it came back to the US too, although my last time buying from him, too $$$.

 

[Jesse John]

This No.1 Quality has no block stickers inside of the hat and to be honest, I am hesitant to pull down the sweatband to look for a LOT #. It is quite frail! Still good enough to wear , though. Love the fact it's from Cody, WY. Any info would be much appreciated!

 

[TheGuitarFairy]

View attachment 347529 View attachment 347530 View attachment 347531 View attachment 347532 This No.1 Quality has no block stickers inside of the hat and to be honest, I am hesitant to pull down the sweatband to look for a LOT #. It is quite frail! Still good enough to wear , though. Love the fact it's from Cody, WY. Any info would be much appreciated!

You're on fire, man! I'm still looking for this hat!
The two dress Stetsons you posted earlier today are gorgeous as well. Especially w/ those two: the care and craftsmanship involved, in every detail, is to be admired I think.

 

[Jesse John]

You're on fire, man! I'm still looking for this hat!
The two dress Stetsons you posted earlier today are gorgeous as well. Especially w/ those two: the care and craftsmanship involved, in every detail, is to be admired I think.

thank you so much!! I’m just catching up on here. It’s a lot of work to set up for photos. I want to make sure I take good ones to do them justice- going back to what you were saying- they are very special. Couldn’t agree more. Thank you for dropping a line about them I appreciate it

 

[Just Daniel]

There is some mystery there on the reorder tags. Yours appears to be a reorder and manufacturing tag combination. The bottom section would appear to be the block for the reorder number.

Some folks (myself included) think these tags pre-date the red tags. If true, that would push the manufacturing date on this one a few decades back.

7 1/2” crown and 5” bound brim on this, most likely, early 30’s No. 1 quality. White size tag with block #405 but no reorder tag. I’ve read the white tag may signal renovation, and I had noticed the frayed end bow had been altered, tucking in and leveling the frayed ends. Perhaps this was the alteration? It is a large 7 3/8 though, so maybe a resizing was also in play.

 

[RossRYoung]

There is some mystery there on the reorder tags. Yours appears to be a reorder and manufacturing tag combination. The bottom section would appear to be the block for the reorder number.

Some folks (myself included) think these tags pre-date the red tags. If true, that would push the manufacturing date on this one a few decades back.

I have to ask, what do you make of all the other cues that put it right at the early 30’s? I know the back story with the original owner and dated photo has to be taken with a grain of salt, but what about the LOT #? What about the oversized/novelty dimensions of the hat, have we seen any evidence of 7”+ crowns any earlier than the 20’s? What about the sweatband stitching, shouldn’t it be VVVV vs IIII?
I have seen the pre dating red label notion, though I don’t believe I’ve seen any evidence to support that theories basis.

 

[Just Daniel]

To my reading and collecting experience, a 30s hat will almost certainly come with an orange tag and a three celled red tag. All 20s hats I have seen show the same but I do not have many.

The red, singular combination tags I believe came before these, the white combination tags before the red.

I believe the VVV stitching is more likely 30s. I don’t know anything about the pictures, etc. So much evidence like that has proven false I rarely give it credit. For the model and type of hat, let’s go back over the catalogs and see what we find. I have not looked at those posts in a while.

The hard part is I have not seen a hard date on any hat to prove any of this. It is primarily conjecture, although I certainly think the tag development order makes sense. For me the debate on the single combo tag is whether they are (*probably) from the 1910s or before.

If it were my hat I would say, “We can’t say for sure, but I think this is a pre 1910s hat, maybe late 1800s. I have to keep researching.”

For reference: I just went to look. I have three Paris 1900 long hair fedoras. Two have a small brown duplicate tag and red three cell manufacturing tag. One has a white combo like yours. I have a pre-1920s or pre-1900s 3X bowler with the red combo tag.

I have to ask, what do you make of all the other cues that put it right at the early 30’s? I know the back story with the original owner and dated photo has to be taken with a grain of salt, but what about the LOT #? What about the oversized/novelty dimensions of the hat, have we seen any evidence of 7”+ crowns any earlier than the 20’s? What about the sweatband stitching, shouldn’t it be VVVV vs IIII?
I have seen the pre dating red label notion, though I don’t believe I’ve seen any evidence to support that theories basis.

 

[RossRYoung]

To my reading and collecting experience, a 30s hat will almost certainly come with an orange tag and a three celled red tag. All 20s hats I have seen show the same but I do not have many.

The red, singular combination tags I believe came before these, the white combination tags before the red.

I believe the VVV stitching is more likely 30s. I don’t know anything about the pictures, etc. So much evidence like that has proven false I rarely give it credit. For the model and type of hat, let’s go back over the catalogs and see what we find. I have not looked at those posts in a while.

The hard part is I have not seen a hard date on any hat to prove any of this. It is primarily conjecture, although I certainly think the tag development order makes sense. For me the debate on the single combo tag is whether they are (*probably) from the 1910s or before.

If it were my hat I would say, “We can’t say for sure, but I think this is a pre 1910s hat, maybe late 1800s. I have to keep researching.”

For reference: I just went to look. I have three Paris 1900 long hair fedoras. Two have a small brown duplicate tag and red three cell manufacturing tag. One has a white combo like yours. I have a pre-1920s or pre-1900s 3X bowler with the red combo tag.

Thank you for the thoughts Daniel. I just have to pry on one last indicator then, the LOT #. The number on this oversized western is in the 6XXX range and just a few #’s off from my NRA tagged 5x CB, which we can firmly state is between 32-35 because of this tag. Would you propose the Western had been maybe sent to Stetson to have a new sweat put on around this time?

To me, other than LOT # (albeit isn’t fact either), the biggest evidence is in the shape/style of the hat and the existing catalogs there are. I have roughly 12 vintage mid 20’s-30’s Porters, Hamley, Stockman etc. catalog PDFs that I’ve downloaded and check frequently (usually when a new novelty hat shows up), and the reason I stopped trying to go any older is the style/shapes get smaller the closer I went towards the turn of the century. From everything I’ve read, Stetson did not start making (dare say impractical?) oversized westerns until the 1920’s with the rise in popularity of cowgirls adopting large shapes. This leads to cowboys and movie stars adopting the look as well, though was short lived as we saw a return to smaller shapes/‘normal’ size by the early 40’s.

 

[Just Daniel]

I think the lot numbers are good indicators when they fit the pattern. There are too many variables in the lot numbers we have found to take them as independent indicators. If I recall correctly Alan indicated they we reset at a certain point? Pre-1910? We have to go through those posts because my memory is vague.

Yes, page 4 of the Lot# thread shows the change with two posts - a 20s #1 and 1900s medal hat with high numbers. RLK has two, including an 8xxx.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/stetson-sweat-stamps-lot-xxxx.62350/page-4

My 1900s hats have Lot #s 5xxx. Presuming there is an order, your hat could fit pre-1910 comfortably.

Thank you for the thoughts Daniel. I just have to pry on one last indicator then, the LOT #. The number on this oversized western is in the 6XXX range and just a few #’s off from my NRA tagged 5x CB, which we can firmly state is between 32-35 because of this tag. Would you propose the Western had been maybe sent to Stetson to have a new sweat put on around this time?

To me, other than LOT # (albeit isn’t fact either), the biggest evidence is in the shape/style of the hat and the existing catalogs there are. I have roughly 12 vintage mid 20’s-30’s Porters, Hamley, Stockman etc. catalog PDFs that I’ve downloaded and check frequently (usually when a new novelty hat shows up), and the reason I stopped trying to go any older is the style/shapes get smaller the closer I went towards the turn of the century. From everything I’ve read, Stetson did not start making (dare say impractical?) oversized westerns until the 1920’s with the rise in popularity of cowgirls adopting large shapes. This leads to cowboys and movie stars adopting the look as well, though was short lived as we saw a return to smaller shapes/‘normal’ size by the early 40’s.

 

[RossRYoung]

 

[DaveProc]

Stetson No. 1

 

[hatophile]

Stetson No. 1
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That is one cool hat, Dave. Love the brim binding.

 

[Jesse John]

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That hat is a dream and a half. Need somethin' like that in my life

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Stetson No. 1
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Nice hat Dave! I have it's twin.

 

[DaveProc]

Nice hat Dave! I have it's twin.

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That's a real beauty Ken!

 

[DaveProc]

Stetson No. 1 after some steam.

 

[jlee562]

This is a No. 1 Quality refurbishment by Bob at Black Sheep Hatworks. Original sweat was trashed. 6" open crown, 3.5" brim, about 3" after the curl. Haven't found a match in the Miller -Stockman catalogs for the model name. Very moldable felt with that great black tone that these old hats have. Bob mentioned he thinks is a mercury processed felt.


Couldn't find much on the store despite the University of North Texas having an online database of the Temple Daily Telegram. I did find several references to a McCelevey-Hartmann women's store, which I assume was the sister store to the men's shop. One of the two references pulled up to the men's store was this 1939 high school yearbook.


And here's the hat:


Bob saved the original ribbon

I asked for a red satin liner, and Bob picked out a darker shade of leather like the original.


I think I've settled on this crease, I also picked up a horse hair band at Golden Gate Western Wear.