Stetson Fashion Collection 1940s Stratoliner Fur Felt Fedora Hat

[rlk]

Did the hats receive broad exposure and retailer participation and then not sell to due to lack of consumer appeal? Or was there a lack of interest and initiative(or marketing and salesman effort) contributing at any level to some extent? Not seeking to place blame but to understand the situation better. I have purchased other types of products for retailers but admit to not understanding the marketing and supply chain of hats in detail.

 

[HATCO]

They recieved equal exposure with other hats in the catalog. Salesman were required to have samples of the hats to show. However they carry so many lines they usually carry what they can sell. Some had it in their line, others didn't. I think we would prefer all crowns to be open. It would cut down SKUs and make everything much easier, but they don't sell as well.

 

[JimWagner]

I forgot to add my brim is 2 3\4.
Also I now notice TheFedoraStore no longer references The Lounge or The Stratoliner Society on the
new Stratoliner page.

If I'm looking at the correct page they are no longer hyping it as a reintroduced Stratoliner either. Now it's "today's Stratoliner".

 

[gtdean48]

I forgot to add my brim is 2 3\4.
Also I now notice TheFedoraStore no longer references The Lounge or The Stratoliner Society on the
new Stratoliner page.

Wow, that brim width must highlight the low crown!

 

[gtdean48]

If I'm looking at the correct page they are no longer hyping it as a reintroduced Stratoliner either. Now it's "today's Stratoliner".

Well played..

 

[jimmy the lid]

Out of all profiles that we have the 10 is the most popular with retailers and consumers and the 01 not to far behind. I'll give you a guess to the profile that sells the least. We discontinued the Nostalgia due to low volume. In the 3 or so years that it was offered it never sold more than 300 units a year. The last 2 years I don't think it broke 200 units. The Royston a silk finish open crown Dobbs sold even less and was discontinued after 1 year. From a business standpoint to make the Stratoliner a success it makes sense to offer it in a profile that will sell. That said, we are willing to make any profile a retailer requests provided they meet our minimum order which is 48 per color. I think in the past we even lowered it for a retailer here to 24 on a group buy, but nothing came of it, because in the end what everyone wanted was a little bit different from each other.

Very interesting. In my experience, seeing another gent in a quality fedora is about as rare as spotting a unicorn. In all seriousness, I marvel at how hat retailers even stay in business these days. So, I imagine that what gets produced is (and has to be) driven by consumer demand for particular styles. It also doesn't surprise me that open crown lids are in very low demand. Seems like most hat wearers these days (particularly new ones) might shy away from trying to shape hats for themselves. And, in light of the fact that a lot of the retail business these days is on the internet, it's not surprising that such retailers would want to offer pre-shaped hats. The days of gents walking into a hat store and having an open crown lid shaped to their own liking have just about vanished.

Previous FedoraFests have centered around a visit to a felt manufacturer. This year, we have the opportunity to visit an operation that is actually producing finished hats and moving those hats on through retail. I am really looking forward to getting your insights on the state of the retail market today, and how this shapes Hatco's approach towards production. I'm also very interested to see how the Western market differs from the dress fedora market, and exploring the Western side of things, given Hatco's long history of producing Resistols.

Really looking forward to it.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[rlk]

Is there no longer any evolutionary progressive(usually cyclical) modification of styles? I realize a hat's dimensions may no longer be comparable to a season's skirt length or lapel width. Consumers need(ed) the motivation to replace or supplement their wardrobe. In the case of hats these changes generally still involve an adjustment of proportions to succeed and generating a desire for what is new(even if it repeats the past). Wider brims generally were associated with an increase of crown height and fullness. Stingier brims with a lower more tapered profile. Wide lapels went with wide ties and narrow with the same scale of tie. The current dominant crown style seems to have remained somewhat stuck in its "new style" of the mid/late 50's.

Its hard to believe that the earlier styles which would now be new and different to a substantial degree would not potentially have a market if promoted and seen on popular figures as well as associated with nostalgia. At some point serving up the same because it has sold well for some time will lead to a stagnation or decrease in sales. I observe that Stetson has made some attempt to develop newer styles and details/finishes, but seems to have ignored the crown in these developments. The Stratoliner could have been something more new(despite a retro origin) from an American Manufacturer instead of being really more of the same. The name association begins with a somewhat limited audience, much of which may associate it with the older dimensions. The former proportions sold well for a good 20+('40-'60>) years and would now be more "fresh" again. Apparently Borsalino has had enough interest to keep its light full-crown thin-ribbon model going for 80+ years and Akubra sells a weightier hat with similar style currently as well as does Stetson in the Open Road(another possible candidate for a "renovation" to its older dimensions). A pre-shaped crown could certainly be offered in any dimension if that is a stumbling block.

PS: I looked at the current Stetson offerings to perhaps chose a hat in support of the Company and the upcoming tour and found that many designs are potentially appealing with interesting finishes and trimmings, but that the one crown profile and dimension is so dominant, that I could find no options with a crown that both is my preference and balances out some of the wider brims. The variety is only on the surface. Surely offering some alternative crowns is potentially expanding possible sales. I don't delude myself that I personally represent a huge market, but certainly there are some idle blocks that could lead to some new sales and these may even appeal to a broader audience than some imagine.

 

[gtdean48]

... That said, we are willing to make any profile a retailer requests provided they meet our minimum order which is 48 per color. I think in the past we even lowered it for a retailer here to 24 on a group buy, but nothing came of it, because in the end what everyone wanted was a little bit different from each other.

One last post then I'm done on this topic....
So this New Strat is listed as "Stetson Fashion Collection 1940s Stratoliner Fur Felt Fedora Hat" so by the name conjures thoughts of getting a 1940s style hat not a modern popular style 10. It is offered in 4 colors so that would make a minimum of 192 hats with your 48 per color minimum or just 96 for a group buy?
That Open Door can't be closed since the bull is already out of the barn....

 

[HATCO]

Yes it is cyclical but it is still moving to shorter crowns and stingier brims. I've opined that we don't have enough offerings in that area as we only have 4 under 2" and 11 over 2 1/2"

 

[rlk]

As noted in my belated PS. There is some brim variety, but the crown does not seem to change to balance it and offer more choice.

just as example, not complete and a few Western mixed in.

 

[hatophile]

Perhaps the Lounger's visit to Hatco will bring to light that there are groups of folks who appreciate and wear some of the older style hats. I can see the difficulty in a company manufacturing a product that would potentially have very few customers, as the larger majority of fedora wearers today (other than many of us here on the lounge, and some religious organizations) are more likely to wear the smaller crown and brim varieties.

I can also understand the disappointment in a hat that is marketed as the 40's style, but looks like a knockoff of the newer styles, for those that were expecting the vintage version.

 

[billyspew]

Out of all profiles that we have the 10 is the most popular with retailers and consumers and the 01 not to far behind. I'll give you a guess to the profile that sells the least. We discontinued the Nostalgia due to low volume. In the 3 or so years that it was offered it never sold more than 300 units a year. The last 2 years I don't think it broke 200 units. The Royston a silk finish open crown Dobbs sold even less and was discontinued after 1 year. From a business standpoint to make the Stratoliner a success it makes sense to offer it in a profile that will sell. That said, we are willing to make any profile a retailer requests provided they meet our minimum order which is 48 per color. I think in the past we even lowered it for a retailer here to 24 on a group buy, but nothing came of it, because in the end what everyone wanted was a little bit different from each other.

I just want to say a quick note on this.

It's just about every week that we here on the FL see an enquiry about a hat that fits either of the two styles worn by a certain Johnny Depp.
These hats are both vintage straight sided and large brimmed. No one really does provide accurate factory versions. One of these is very vintage Strat like and would have fit the bill, the other is very vintage Whippet like. There has to be a market there, not just for people like us but for the fashion/celebrity concious people. It's about market to the demand.

On your point about the open crown's not selling, again, I think this is marketing. No where really in marketing literature does it explain the potential in having it like that, benefits etc. play up to the excitement that can be experienced in making the hat your own. Look at the way the Stetson 3 way was advertised back in the 50's(?).

 

[carldelo]

I did. Take a look at L.L. Bean's Moose River, which is what I was referring to. $119. In none of my posts on this have I mentioned any hats other than the Moose River or the Stratoliner.

Well, go figure - my apologies. I had no idea that hat was still offered, and that's a good price. I imagine the felt is a lower grade than the current Strat offering, but who knows? LL Bean has some clout, so maybe they are able to offer it at a discount. Is the felt grade mentioned anywhere on the sweat (i.e. Royal or Sovereign)?

PS it seems the new Strat is sporting a 2-5/8" to 2-3/4" brim, which is too wide for me (I know, I'm weird). I'm thinking if I want a Silverbelly profile 10 hat (this crown shape looks completely perfect on me, I know, I'm odd), I should just buy a Moose River, spend a little having the brim trimmed to 2-1/4" and bound, and be $40 bucks ahead.

 

[Jedwbpm]

This has turned interesting now. Hatco would Hatco make a Strat or Whippet or Open Road on the old dimensions if we could get a run of 48? To us here lets face it the kids are the future of the hat wearing word and they are making the move. they started wearing $50.00 baseball hats and now are wearing $50.00 cloth stingy brims. I think that as they move out of college and into the work force you might see if marketed properly good old fashion fedoras. Stingys seem to be unisex thus making a bigger market with fewer SKU's. So first I would see Hatco making felt stingys then moving them or not into wider brim fedoras. If they sell enough stingys no need to move them up. I spent many years in the Liquor and Wine industry. This is a industry very similar to the hat industry as to volume and social acceptance. Volume has been dropping since the 60's and manufacture has also consolidated. Kids tend to start on beer. They then move to premium vodka (the biggest rip off ever) this gets them used to paying a high price for a quality product. From that group some we move to Brown goods (the liquor equivalent to Wide Brims and Straight High Crown). We are not Hatco's main market right now for growth. Westerns are the biggest part of there sales and I see the growth of the dress hat for the time being on the side of the stingy move up from cloth to felt.

Jeff

 

[JimWagner]

Well, go figure - my apologies. I had no idea that hat was still offered, and that's a good price. I imagine the felt is a lower grade than the current Strat offering, but who knows? LL Bean has some clout, so maybe they are able to offer it at a discount. Is the felt grade mentioned anywhere on the sweat (i.e. Royal or Sovereign)?

PS it seems the new Strat is sporting a 2-5/8" to 2-3/4" brim, which is too wide for me (I know, I'm weird). I'm thinking if I want a Silverbelly profile 10 hat (this crown shape looks completely perfect on me, I know, I'm odd), I should just buy a Moose River, spend a little having the brim trimmed to 2-1/4" and bound, and be $40 bucks ahead.

No problems and no apology needed. As far as the felt grade is concerned I'll be better able to answer that once I've received my Stratoliner and can compare them side by side.

 

[Jedwbpm]

Now as to open Crown hats. There seems to be a perception here that in the good old days men would go to the store and buy an open crowned hat and bring it home a crease it themselves or change a ribbon color. I would think that most hat shops and men's departments had trained staff and equipment on hand to steam and crease a hat right there and then for the customer. This allowed the store to carry less SKU's since a variety of styles could come from one body. When thing went to self-serve more preformed hats were needed. Most hat shops do most of there sales online and I bet don't want to crease a hat that is being sent out. When the crease comes from the factory it is what it is but when the store does it the customer can get picky so why push a labor intensive hat. Hatco offered the Nostalgia but I bet it was the retailers that did not get behind it.

Jeff

 

[gtdean48]

This has turned interesting now. Hatco would Hatco make a Strat or Whippet or Open Road on the old dimensions if we could get a run of 48? ...

48 in each color as I read what HATCO posted...question is = Is there a minimum number of colors?

 

[gtdean48]

.... Is the felt grade mentioned anywhere on the sweat (i.e. Royal or Sovereign)?

...

My Moose River was Royal Stetson grade. I saw no designation of grade on the New Strat that I recall. The sweat seemed of better grade than a Royal Stetson but not quite that of the Sovereign Roadmaster. The liner looked like a modern Open Road type.

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

I just want to say a quick note on this.

It's just about every week that we here on the FL see an enquiry about a hat that fits either of the two styles worn by a certain Johnny Depp.

This is a big market miss as like you say this question is asked all the time and then the new hat wearer finds out that the hat they want cost's several hundred dollars and is hard to find too boot. Hatco get a contract with Mr. Depp to have a hat line made to his spec. and you will see a sudden rise in Fedora wearing. I big market is being missed here.

 

[carldelo]

My Moose River was Royal Stetson grade. I saw no designation of grade on the New Strat that I recall. The sweat seemed of better grade than a Royal Stetson but not quite that of the Sovereign Roadmaster. The liner looked like a modern Open Road type.

Thanks, that's interesting about the liners - my two Royal grade hats have the same white liner as the new Strat, my Sovereigns have black liners.
As I understand it, the modern Open Road is Sovereign too, so I guess sometimes the white liner is used in them as well. I think I read above that the Moose River is unlined, which makes sense for an outdoorsman's hat.