Stetson Fashion Collection 1940s Stratoliner Fur Felt Fedora Hat

[RBH]

Looks like same left wing as mine. Duane at The Fedora Store said he was getting some replacements from HatCo.

I have to agree with Lefty in that HatCo simply slapped a label on a lid with little attempt to have the features that make a Stratoliner attractive to folks.
This crown & brim are very close to the Pinnacle I have, except the edge is bound & the band is like an Open Road. The crown is low & tapered, something NEVER part of the original Strat.
It is like getting a cheaply made car & slapping an iconic label like Nova on it....wait that did happen & it was a FAILURE!!!

Would it be possible that they were getting the hat out there before trademark time ran out?
They still should have had better suited blocks I would think....

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

I want to be VERY CLEAR that I am confident the quality issues are being & will be addressed. My issues from here on are about the design & business decisions that gave us this offering bearing a cherished name PLUS the direct association of the Lounge & the Strat Society with it on website marketing copy!

Maybe they will sit down with you guys an talk about this if done properly this could be an opportunity
for users to add input into how this type of hat is made.

 

[rlk]

Would it be possible that they were getting the hat out there before trademark time ran out?
They still should have had better suited blocks I would think....

Stetson, not Hatco has the trademark, not sure who does design work.

The general perception is that contemporary hat wearers prefer the lower more tapered crown. Remember Stetson and others reduced brim and crown dimensions and increased the tapering of their long best-selling models Whippet, Playboy, etc in the more recent past. Stingies likely outsell other "dress" styles currently. What is available obviously influences choices. I think there is a market for earlier dimensions, but I don't imagine that they view the Fedora Lounge as a microcosm of the world in general. We will learn more soon in Garland... There is some ammunition in the fact that Borsalino has continued to sell the "Alessandria" in approximately its original dimensions(close to a Stratoliner) while selling mostly lower, more tapered crown models currently.

 

[gtdean48]

...
The general perception is that contemporary hat wearers prefer the lower more tapered crown. Remember Stetson and others reduced brim and crown dimensions and increased the tapering of their long best-selling models Whippet, Playboy, etc in the more recent past...

Good info Robert. Thanks.
Now from The Fedora Store website = "I even found an online discussion group called the ‘Stratoliner Society’ at www.TheFedoraLounge.com,” he said. Because of the strong following and interest in this vintage Stetson hat, Dewsbury worked with the management at Stetson to bring the hat back. He said he is pleased to be the first, after nearly half a century, to offer the Stetson Stratoliner for retail sale on his website."
It is the bold underlined part that leads to my disappointment. It clearly leads to the belief of "bringing it back", not some modern manifestation of a Stratoliner...

 

[carldelo]

It seems to me Hatco could have used the blocks for the Nostalgia rather than the current Chatham/Profile 10 if they wanted to get close to the original Stratoliner without a lot of development work. But I guess the meager sales of the Nostalgia probably wouldn't be enough to persuade them that it would work. It's ironic, considering that when the Nostalgia was first introduced, there was discussion here on the lounge about getting a bound-brim version of it with a narrower ribbon, which came to naught.

 

[VetPsychWars]

I received my Stratoliner today in Silver Belly. It's the same color, minus the dirt, as an older Open Road I have. The fit is good, the block is good. The crease, for lack of a better word, between the brim and the hat body could be a little better. The ribbon looks good but was sitting a little high for me. I gently encouraged it down and it sits in a better place.

The liner, not much to say about it, it's a liner. The sweatband is nice, after wearing it for a while it sort of molds to your head like you'd hope.

The block is a taper, as previously mentioned, but I'm ok with that. It think that shape looks good on me. There is a light powder on it. I used my white brush and brushed it a little to get the excess off.

With the various discounts I got using the promo code and Google Checkout, I ended up paying $157, and it's definitely worth that price.

I don't have enough postings for pictures yet, but I'm sure there are plenty of you who will post pictures soon.

Oh, my Stratoliner pin was complete. Usually I take the fancy stuff off but I think I'll leave this one for a while.

Tom

 

[JimWagner]

That's encouraging. Still waiting for mine to arrive.

 

[gtdean48]

Unfounded?...

I am posting the email reply I got from Duane at the Fedora Store fully as he specified below...

Now to address a couple of your posts:

The open crown height should be nothing LESS than 5 1/2" but for me it should be 5 3/4" to reflect a 1940s to 1950s style hat.
This is a LAME attempt to exploit a historical model with a pure labeling move instead of a true re-issue.
Colt went & reissued the Peacemaker & the parts were interchangeable with the originals.
When Indian motorcycles came back out, they slapped badges & fat fenders on an existing V-twin & the motorcycle enthusiasts blasted it.
This just shows me that neither HatCo nor The Fedora Store are really reading what goes on in the Lounge but trying to extract some $$$ as cheaply as they can.
I think the term I used above is accurate = EXPLOITING.....
and...

I think WE deserve something BETTER! The post on The Fedora Store Website specifically mentioned the Stratoliner Society. HatCo has an employee that IS a Lounger.
To come out with this offering for such a revered model that they claimed to be well aware of goes beyond disappointing!

We are FREE marketing research for them! To know what we LIKE about a lid & come in this low below the bar is inexcusable!

I will keep the replacement to this hat like I kept the Road Master that I bought to check out.

To do right by The Fedora Lounge & the Stratoliner Society who I feel they have slapped in the face, they should reissue the Stratoliner using an acceptable block = 5 3/4" straight sided open crown, & take back in an even swap these atrocities! JMHO
​

These remarks are really unfounded. First of all, I included my remarks about TheFedoraLounge and Strat Society to share some interested in the site for MK and the group, since they inspired me to look into getting this hat brought back. How Hatco decided to produce the hat was outside of my control. This is not a slap in anyone's face, and certainly not exploiting or a cheap attempt to make money. I paid to have my press release marketed around the world, and had full intention in sharing the lounge and hatco in the release to bring recognition to all parties concerned.

Here's just one link to the published release.
http://fashion.broadwayworld.com/ar...com_Reintroduce_a_Hat_from_the_1940s_20110121

I am sure this has drawn some new visitors to the lounge.

Now, Hatco and I both recognize that your order was a mistake, and we are making BETTER THAN GOOD on it. Neither of us feel that your remarks are fair, nor straightforward. Any manufacturing company can make a mistake, and as long as they make good on it, they don't deserve this sort of exposure. I have sold many hats. There have been times when a customer is unhappy with quality, and we have always made good on the relationship. Very very seldom, when making good on a mistake, have we had to face this sort of slander.

I wish you the best in your endeavors, I hope you like your hat, and your tour at Hatco, and I hope that we can part without hard feelings. I also have no problem if you post any of this correspondance, but if you do.... I would hope that you keep it in context by posting all of it.




Thank You,

Duane Dewsbury​

 

[JimWagner]

The crux of the matter is whether or not this reintroduced Statoliner looks like and has the same dimensions as the 1940's Stratoliner. The ads and literature clearly state that Stetson is bringing the hat back. Not that it is just putting out a hat called the Statoliner and it's "inspired" by the earlier model. Citing the FL and the "Stratoliner Society", acknowledging that there are knowledgeable Stratoliner collectors out here, and a strong following for the vintage Stratoliners, and because of that Stetson is bringing back the hat certainly raises a legitimate expectation that this reintroduced Stratoliner should match very closely if not exactly to a vintage Stratoliner.

Now, I haven't received mine yet so I cannot state with any authority at all whether or not this new Stratoliner looks like and has the same dimensions and shape as a vintage Stratoliner.

But I do know that I bought this hat based on it being advertised as a reintroduction of the vintage Stratoliner and that it is a reasonable expectation on my part (and likely many others) that the new Stratoliner match as closely as possible to a vintage one. If it does not, then that is a problem.

 

[jlee562]

While I don't disagree with the point that the new Stratoliner is not really like the old, Mr. Dewsbury has a point: how Hatco produced the hat is out of his control.

More than that, we here on TFL are, let's be frank, hat snobs. We are not the exclusive market for these hats, we are merely a segment of said market.

 

[JimWagner]

I meant to add that from the pictures this new Stratoliner looks very much like my early 90's Moose River with the addition of a bound edge. Same bash. It originally came with the thin ribbon as well, although the most recent versions of the Moose River come with a leather band and is unlined. It's also not what I'd call a dress hat felt.

If what I get is a Moose River with a thin ribbon, bound edge and a liner (my Moose River had no liner) then I'll be pretty disappointed. But for now it's wait and see.

 

[JimWagner]

While I don't disagree with the point that the new Stratoliner is not really like the old, Mr. Dewsbury has a point: how Hatco produced the hat is out of his control.

But the advertising was under their control.

 

[gtdean48]

I want to be VERY CLEAR that I am confident the quality issues are being & will be addressed. My issues from here on are about the design & business decisions that gave us this offering bearing a cherished name PLUS the direct association of the Lounge & the Strat Society with it on website marketing copy!

In support of my confidence in addressing the quality issue of the hat I received, Duane Dewsberry of the Fedora Store refunded my purchase price in full & has arranged for HatCo to give me a replacement when we go for the Factory tour on March 18. He also arranged for a free return shipping label that I used to ship the hat back to HatCo for their quality control use.

 

[gtdean48]

...If what I get is a Moose River with a thin ribbon, bound edge and a liner (my Moose River had no liner) then I'll be pretty disappointed. But for now it's wait and see.

I too have had Moose River hats from LL Bean by Stetson. One was Silver Belly with a thin ribbon & the other was Olive with a leather band.
The new Stratoliner that I received can be described as almost identical to the thin ribbon Moose River with the addition of a bound edge, the plane pin, & Stratoliner stenciled on the sweatband.

 

[Lefty]

I bet the one that they give you at the factory gets checked at least three times. It's not an audience they want to disappoint.

 

[gtdean48]

I bet the one that they give you at the factory gets checked at least three times. It's not an audience they want to disappoint.

Probably so. I am interested in what some of the lawyers here think of this statement = "Very very seldom, when making good on a mistake, have we had to face this sort of slander."

 

[gtdean48]

An arrogant slanderer with personal issues...

Probably so. I am interested in what some of the lawyers here think of this statement = "Very very seldom, when making good on a mistake, have we had to face this sort of slander."

In full disclosure & expectation Mr. Dewsbury posting here in the Lounge..

From: HatsAmerica
To: Tom Dean

I am sure the lawyers on the lounge could care less. This is your personal issue. You have chosen your terms carefully, and EXPLOITING is the one I am reflecting on. We are selling hats, not exploiting knowledgeable people. However, there is a lot of arogance in this thread, so I will leave it at that. I have asked the lounge to reinstate the posting priviledges I formally asked to remove so that I can deal with you publically.

Our listing clearly states and has always stated "Although the original hat was an open crown, today's Stratoliner is blocked with Stetson's dress teardrop crown, which is approximately 4 inches at the front crease.Although the original hat was an open crown, today's Stratoliner is blocked with Stetson's dress teardrop crown, which is approximately 4 inches at the front crease."

Thank You,

Duane Dewsbury
​

From: Tom Dean
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 2:09 PM
To: HatsAmerica
Subject: Re: TheFedoraStore.com : Order #50194


Like I said. I'll let the lawyers of the Lounge reflect on the term you chose.
I used my terms very carefully in stating how this is perception = "This just shows me...."
Slander & libel are serious terms to be accused of.

​

From: HatsAmerica
To: Tom Dean
Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 3:50:52 PM
Subject: RE: TheFedoraStore.com : Order #50194


Probably so. I am interested in what some of the lawyers here think of this statement = "Very very seldom, when making good on a mistake, have we had to face this sort of slander."


This just shows me that neither HatCo nor The Fedora Store are really reading what goes on in the Lounge but trying to extract some $$$ as cheaply as they can.
I think the term I used above is accurate = EXPLOITING.....​

 

[jlee562]

But the advertising was under their control.

Products that don't live up to advertising hype? Well gee, that never happens....[huh]

Honestly, with all due respect to Mr. Dean, I think he's overreacting. I do not think any exploitation took place. When I first saw the picture it was immediately clear to me what the hat was: nothing like the original.

 

[gtdean48]

Duane's last message of the exchange....

From: HatsAmerica
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 2:51 PM
To: Tom Dean
Subject: RE: TheFedoraStore.com : Order #50194
Importance: High


Sure, post it ALL my friend.

I did not call you arrogant, I said that there was arrogance in this thread. I don't have personal issues. It appears you do, if you think I called you arrogant. Read it again. Perhaps that is what happened when you ordered the hat. Did you read the description? Honestly, your two main issues are easily addressed.

1. The issue does seem to be with the crown being different. Thread posts seem to be indicating that we claimed we were bringing back the same exact hat when we clearly state "Although the original hat was an open crown, today's Stratoliner is blocked with Stetson's dress teardrop crown, which is approximately 4 inches at the front crease."

2. I mentioned the lounge and the Stratoliner Society in my press release. I have been a member of the lounge for quite some time, and certainly long before November 2008. I have had many conversations with many members about the Stratoliner hat over the years. Several members have encouraged me to pursue with Hatco releasing this style again. This was not a marketing ploy mentioning the lounge in my press release, but good faith recognition where it was due.

I find the tone of the following comments do convey some arrogance. Nothing wrong with that, as it is an open forum. However, this is what I see.

"I bet the one that they give you at the factory gets checked at least three times. It's not an audience they want to disappoint. "
Understand that many many more Stratoliners have been sold to non-fedoralounge members. We DON'T want to disappoint anyone, including this audience.

and another member proving the point:
"More than that, we here on TFL are, let's be frank, hat snobs. We are not the exclusive market for these hats, we are merely a segment of said market. "

Tom, I hope your feelings aren't hurt. I don't consider you to be arrogant. I didn't call you a slanderer either. I guess you should read that again too.
"Very very seldom, when making good on a mistake, have we had to face this sort of slander."

I think if you accuse my company of EXPLOITING the fedora lounge, that is slanderous. I say this because obvisouly you have no idea how the relationship of the introduction of this hat with members of the lounge came about.

Tom, I think I am done now, and will let you have the last word. Again, feel free to post it. At least for my dialogue with you, I am glad I asked to have my posting priviledges removed, as it allowed me to answer you while taking time before hitting send. I guess this strategy worked for me.

Best wishes Tom. I bought you a Stratoliner, which is being made to be delivered to you on your tour. We are done.

Duane
​

 

[carldelo]

Honestly, with all due respect to Mr. Dean, I think he's overreacting. I do not think any exploitation took place. When I first saw the picture it was immediately clear to me what the hat was: nothing like the original.

I have to agree - it was clear to me from the ad that the hat is a profile 10, which is to say that it has the same crown as: Chatham, Downs, Ashland, Hampton, new Whippet, Moose River, Bear Creek, etc. I never concluded that a replica of a vintage lid was to be offered.

This issue of the hat designers just adding a bound brim to a Chatham and calling it the New Whippet came up when that hat was released, but didn't cause as big of a stir. It didn't appear to be a serious issue with this hat until this major quality snafu showed up.

The design and fabrication issues are separate, and deserve to be discussed separately. As far as the fabrication of GTDean's hat, it sounds like the Fedora Store is doing the right thing and then some, so that appears to be resolved. The usual jabs about modern Stetson design should be sent to a different target.