Stetson crest dating

[ScottF]

I found this thread while trying to date my Royal Stetson today,...ScottF you posted a few beautiful photos in particular that are helping.

You indicated that the OPS tag and emblem are probably circa 1950-1953, the tag and emblem on my hat are almost identical. Also, the price of your Royal Deluxe at $12.50 and my Royal at $10 is leading me to believe my Stetson would also be from 1950-1953.

Here are a few more photos of the various tags inside my sweat-band:

If you or anyone could help me learn and identify the age of these tags I would sure appreciate it. I'm attempting to date the hat to find out whether a particular person might have owned it or not.

This man: http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/cbhines.htm
...
...

Thanks.

I think that particular size tag design can be tricky - I only know mine's 50-53 because of the OPS part surrounding it. Hopefully someone else can give you a better answer.

 

[jimmy the lid]

I understand that there are no hard and fast rules, but it seems really strange to see a circular sweat logo with stars in a mid-60s Stetson, given what you've shown us regarding 'stars vs leaf'.

I don't know Rilico, but is it possible he added a more modern liner to an older hat?

There is no consistency to the crest on the sweat -- and there are plenty of examples of post 1952 hats with stars in the crest on the sweat. From everything I have seen, the only really reliable indicator in this regard is the crest design on the liner. I think I have yet to see a post-1952 hat with stars in the crest on the liner -- whereas, the sweat is a different story. I think this is what Dinerman is getting at in his first post in this thread.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[jimmy the lid]

If you or anyone could help me learn and identify the age of these tags I would sure appreciate it. I'm attempting to date the hat to find out whether a particular person might have owned it or not.

High Pockets -- the one photo that is missing is one of the most important: a photo of the liner. If we could see that, it would really help.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[ScottF]

There is no consistency to the crest on the sweat -- and there are plenty of examples of post 1952 hats with stars in the crest on the sweat. From everything I have seen, the only really reliable indicator in this regard is the crest design on the liner. I think I have yet to see a post-1952 hat with stars in the crest on the liner -- whereas, the sweat is a different story. I think this is what Dinerman is getting at in his first post in this thread.

Cheers,
JtL

Good - well, I'd hate to be confused without good reason!

Just won this little puppy on ebay:

 

[High Pockets]

High Pockets -- the one photo that is missing is one of the most important: a photo of the liner. If we could see that, it would really help.

Cheers,
JtL

Alas,.....no liner.

Nothing, not a single thread left in the felt that might have once held one in place.

I'll settle for the 1950's,....based on four hours of research on the Lounge, for which I now have a headache.

Thanks for trying to help, guys.

 

[rlk]

I understand that there are no hard and fast rules, but it seems really strange to see a circular sweat logo with stars in a mid-60s Stetson, given what you've shown us regarding 'stars vs leaf'.

I don't know Rilico, but is it possible he added a more modern liner to an older hat?

Not a Hat but Stetson currently uses the star version of the crest for their eyewear. So much for its vintage dating.

 

[ScottF]

The stetson crest was redesigned at some point, it looks like around 1950, but I'm still looking to nail down exactly when.

Here's a side by side, older design on the left, newer design on the right.

-beaver has a different stance, more upright on the older design, more hunched on the newer

-The top left square on the old one has a field of dots (stars?) while the right one has a leaf.

- the curly bits under the crest extend beyond the banner on the older design, while on the newer, they end just about at the same point

I'm not going to really deal with the surround, as that seems to have changed on and off, and changed with model and the like.

And there are exceptions, and the design of the crest on the liner doesn't always seem to match the design on the sweatband. Depending on the level of detail of the stamping/ printing, you'll see different things as well.

The first hat dates around WWII, judging from a tag stating the liner's made from celanese yarn. The second hat dates from 1956 or before, going by 1956 dated newspapers under the sweatband.

..

Here I go starting trouble again - here's a circular logo WITH stars, where the curly bits do not extend beyond the banner. Other than the encircling, it seems to be exactly like the 'Royal Deluxe' sweatband stamp on jtl's 1948 hat.

 

[rlk]

Here I go starting trouble again - here's a circular logo WITH stars, where the curly bits do not extend beyond the banner. Other than the encircling, it seems to be exactly like the 'Royal Deluxe' sweatband stamp on jtl's 1948 hat.

Your beaver has poor posture like the leaf logo. The whole stamp is a little different. Some they probably had to replace from wear more frequently than others.

 

[Dinerman]

Here I go starting trouble again - here's a circular logo WITH stars, where the curly bits do not extend beyond the banner. Other than the encircling, it seems to be exactly like the 'Royal Deluxe' sweatband stamp on jtl's 1948 hat.

The curly bits seem to, there, above the T in Stetson.
Posture is clearly different, but the stars vs. leaf seems to be the main change.

 

[ScottF]

The curly bits seem to, there, above the T in Stetson.
Posture is clearly different, but the stars vs. leaf seems to be the main change.

I see what you're saying (I misunderstood your original post). This one looks like a hybrid of the two you posted.

I had originally thought that the hat this goes with was early '40s, but a more knowledgeable lounger says that Stetson didn't use reeded sweatbands in the '40s until the late '40s. So I guess this is an example of a 'stars' stamp from the late '40s.

Thanks!

 

[Lefty]

Further discussion of the Paris 1900 logo in this thread, including this statement:

My bet is that it's earlier than the '20s. Jamespowers, wouldn't you agree? We've both seen that liner logo before: I used to think it was on Stetson's '20s hats, but Jamespowers leaned more towards the World War I era -- and I think he's right.


.

It seems that all of the hats with this logo have a velour finish - likely the finish that won Stetson the prize in Paris.

 

[High Pockets]

I'll submit few photos of a stingy brim that looks like the style of the 1960's.
The liner is glued in and there are no paper stickers on the interior.

I'm assuming the liner is an indication of the mid 60's, but I know very little about the bow or sweat logo.

 

[texashatman]

Here are the details from three Open Roads I have. The first one is a Royal Deluxe (with no liner) that can be dated to 1950-53 by its OPS tag. The second one can be dated to pre-1951 because the owner died that year - also, it has the stars in the background. The third one has the leaf in the background, and plastic over the liner logo.

What year did they begin putting "The last drop from my Stetson" in the OR's? I know you can still get new ones with that picture but not the quality of embroidery.

 

[ScottF]

What year did they begin putting "The last drop from my Stetson" in the OR's? I know you can still get new ones with that picture but not the quality of embroidery.

I think the embroidered version replaced an embroidered brown and white design, sometime in the early '40s, then was in turn replaced by a non-embroidered version in the late '50s or early '60s.

I would love to find the embroidered brown and white version, but have only seen it in photos.

Feltfan, Dinerman - please correct my dates if necessary and I'll edit this post. I posted a response more to get others to correct me, than anything else.

 

[jimmy the lid]

The embroidered "Last Drop from His Stetson" liner was used through the 50's, at the very least. I think it probably survived into the 60's, as well. To my mind, the "air-brushed" version is indicative of a more modern, post-1970, lid.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[texashatman]

Thank yall so much. I've been researching this for about 8 hours. I know the picture was originally painted by Lon Magargee in 1923 and used in Stetson ads from 1924. The hat I bought today has a very nice embroidered liner but there's a lot of sweat staining and wear where it rides under the sweat band. The felt is 3X and it's the most supple,pliable felt I've ever run into. Thanks again.

 

[Lefty]

8 hours?!?!
Save time, use the express!

 

[texashatman]

I hate to post a question until I just absolutely can't find it myself. I have fun searching around. You get led in a million directions and learn things you never even expected. Thanks again.

 

[Lefty]

That 30s cap from yesterday had a great shot of the crest.

 

[Rodkins]

Stetson Supper Club...