Stetson Ambassador?

[tonyb]

This tag

has me believing this model is called the Ambassador. Anyone ever heard of this model? Anyone else got one?

 

[jamespowers]

This is killing me because I know I have the ad at home. I can see it in front of me.
Nice hat. In the ad I think the man is wearing it with the brim up all around. I will post it and the definite date when I get home and settled.
Now give us the specifics like crown height, brim width, where you got it and is it my size?

Regards to all,

J

 

[John in Covina]

Brim style

I like that brim style, what is the trade name from the style of edging on the Ambassador?

Very cool hat.

 

[maintcoder]

Very nice!

That is a sharp hat, Tony. It is pretty much what I am looking for to pair with my dark gray and dark blue suits!

 

[tonyb]

I figured you'd come up with the answer, jamespowers. It has a 2 3/8-inch brim. Bashed as it is the crown measures 4 3/4 inches at the front and 4 1/2 at the back. I've already gloated a bit about this hat, seeing how it's in such nice shape and it cost me only $19.99 plus shipping. I found it on that infamous online auction site a few weeks back and noted then how the seller did herself no favors in her item description. It's a size 7 1/8, but it was a large 7 1/8 and I stretched it up enough to fit me fine. I also cleaned it and rebashed it into my preferred shape.
John, Stetson called it a "Mode Edge." Seems about the same as a Cavanagh edge to me. If it ain't, someone please set the record straight.
Thanks, maintcoder. I'll keep my eyes peeled for you. Seems like we must live within an easy drive of each other.

 

[Dick Tracy]

Magnificent hat! I wish I had one like that. Enjoy it.

 

[silverHalo]

walking the fine line of the edge....

And with Dobbs it would be called the "GUILD EDGE", .....how do they make that edge any how? It Looks like its folded over and in-on itself. Any one have the info on how the Guild/Mode/Cavanagh edge is made???

 

[feltfan]

And with Dobbs it would be called the "GUILD EDGE", .....how do they make that edge any how? It Looks like its folded over and in-on itself. Any one have the info on how the Guild/Mode/Cavanagh edge is made???

Actually, I have a Dobbs on which it is labeled
a "Dobbs Edge". Pretty nervy, I'd say.

If you want to know precisely how it's made,
search this forum. Brad Bowers posted the
original patent!

 

[jamespowers]

Aha! I finally found it.

I remembered right about the brim being up all around. It makes it hard to tell how the brim edge looks. You are right though. The Mode Edge was Stetson's version of the Cavanagh Edge. I am sure Stetson just loved having to pay Cavanagh for the use of his patent but they put out plenty of Mode Edges and later Selv Edges.
To answer another question, the Guild Edge was another version of the Cavanagh Edge. Dobbs became part of Hat Brands eventually and I am not sure if the Guild Edge was required to pay for the use of the patent as Cavanagh was a part of the group as well. It just depends on how old your example is.
Aside from referring you to the patent, the best way to describe the Cavanagh Edge is to say that it is a indeed sewn back onto itself before the felting process was over. Then it was felted more. The stitches were then removed and the hat body finished felting and filled any holes left by the stitch removal. There is also a piece of felt within the edge running the circumference of the brim. It felts in pretty well as you can see and it leaves the even raised area to the end of the brim. The process is difficult to get right because you have to correctly estimate how much the body is going to felt down (shrink due to heat and motion imparted to the felt by either machines or hand tools) and leave room in that estimation for a decent brim and crown size. I am sure it could be done now but it would take some practice to get it right. Would they be willing to waste a few dozen or more felt bodies to get the process right? I don't know but it could well be worth it---at least to me.

Regards to all,

J

 

[tonyb]

Thanks again, jamespowers. How old is that ad? I have a real good idea of the age of my Ambassador, seeing how it has "Dec. 23 1957" stamped on the inside of the sweatband. But I've yet to find any other references to that model. Makes me suspect it didn't have a long history and didn't sell particularly well.

 

[D. Hats]

Nice, Very Nice....

Tony, Do you have the before picture? The pictures you've posted are since you've cleaned it up... it looks like it was made yesterday and you bought it right off the store shelf.

1957, hmmm. jamespowers, what came first, this mode, shelv, cavanagh edging or the bound edges? Or, did both exist at the same time?

Tony, you got a great deal on this lid !!

 

[adamgottschalk]

Cav first

Tony, Do you have the before picture? The pictures you've posted are since you've cleaned it up... it looks like it was made yesterday and you bought it right off the store shelf.

1957, hmmm. jamespowers, what came first, this mode, shelv, cavanagh edging or the bound edges? Or, did both exist at the same time?

Tony, you got a great deal on this lid !!

My hat guy told me Cavanagh was the first to patent the "Cavanagh edge" and all other makers had to use different names; for how long I don't know. "Welted" edge is the most common phrase I've seen. Someone on the lounge pointed out that one of the reasons the fine Cav edge, which seems to dissolve into itself magically, was/is so highly revered is that to do it right, a good percentage of attempts fail and are discarded. The felt needs to be folded over perfectly all around. It seems older Borsalinos (and others I've sure) have miraculousy fine edges like the Cav edge. The vintage Dobbs, and a lot of other hats, I've seen and touched all had "beefier" edges, less subtle, more chunky. I think raw edges and bound edges came before the Cav thing.

 

[jamespowers]

Thanks again, jamespowers. How old is that ad? I have a real good idea of the age of my Ambassador, seeing how it has "Dec. 23 1957" stamped on the inside of the sweatband. But I've yet to find any other references to that model. Makes me suspect it didn't have a long history and didn't sell particularly well.

Your date int he sweatband is right to the ad. It is a December 1957 ad. Sorry I forgot to put the date in.
Several factors probably lead to its decline. the style change in the 1960s had hats brims getting even shorter than yours. You can see the evolution a bit in the Ambassador. The brim is a little shorter and the crown is a higher with a simple block.
As for those interested in the Cavanagh edge, Brad Bowers has already done the leg work at: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=4993

Raw edges and bound edges do predate the Cavanagh Edge. The first Cavanagh Edge we see is from 1913 but it really caught on in the 30s and 40s. Raw edges have been around since the first hat was made. I don't think they even knew it was a raw edge back then. Bound Edges came about later. It was a natural progression when you think about it. :cheers1:

Regards to all,

J

 

[John in Covina]

MAGIC

. Someone on the lounge pointed out that one of the reasons the fine Cav edge, which seems to dissolve into itself magically, was/is so highly revered is that to do it right, a good percentage of attempts fail and are discarded. The felt needs to be folded over perfectly all around. It seems older Borsalinos (and others I've sure) have miraculousy fine edges like the Cav edge.

********
The magic of a well made hat goes beyond art and science when it speaks to your heart.

 

[D. Hats]

The magic of a well made hat goes beyond art and science when it speaks to your heart

.

Well John, maybe not beyond Art....

 

[John in Covina]

.Well John, maybe not beyond Art....

****
Our Art Fawcett is a Michael Angelo & a Leanardo DiVinci
when it comes to Fedoras.

 

[J.D. Hunt]

Yes I do, the tag in mine is a small rectangle with size, lot number and price ($15.00). Unlike your mine had many miles on it before I picked it up. The crown has been home blocked in to a flat top, the band is gone. I believe that someone used it as a work or hunting hat. The liner is maked Imperial Stetson and the sweat band has the Philadelphia address on it. J.D. Hunt

 

[fmw]

I really like the way the brim looks in the ad - way better than snapping it down. That is a super looking fedora.