some general hat info that I have been afraid to ask

[moontheloon]

first of all ... I have searched the forum and wasn't abel to find exactly what I am looking for

also if this needs to be moved I understand.... but I hope it is not

ok

so there are a bunch of terms I hear thrown around that I would love some clarification on

I have been a hat person my entire life and own many hats but never got in to the depth of collector knowledge of my brethren around here .... I basically bought what I liked and wore it

so there are some things I would love some clarification on

I understand that Stratoliners are very popular right now and I understand where and when they come from and where the name comes from

what I would love clarification on are these terms that I keep hearing

open road

silverbelly

then all the numbers like 15 , 20, 25

and also the Beaver X's if you would be so kind

also.... any additional terms you can think of that I should be aware of that are commonly used that you could tell me about I would greatly appreciate .... like I sometimes see things like OR ... and stuff like that

thanks so much gents .... I'm thirsty for knowledge ... and this is the place to find it indeed

Anthony

 

[facade]

first of all ... I have searched the forum and wasn't abel to find exactly what I am looking for

also if this needs to be moved I understand.... but I hope it is not

ok

so there are a bunch of terms I hear thrown around that I would love some clarification on

I have been a hat person my entire life and own many hats but never got in to the depth of collector knowledge of my brethren around here .... I basically bought what I liked and wore it

so there are some things I would love some clarification on

I understand that Stratoliners are very popular right now and I understand where and when they come from and where the name comes from

what I would love clarification on are these terms that I keep hearing

open road

silverbelly

then all the numbers like 15 , 20, 25

and also the Beaver X's if you would be so kind

also.... any additional terms you can think of that I should be aware of that are commonly used that you could tell me about I would greatly appreciate .... like I sometimes see things like OR ... and stuff like that

thanks so much gents .... I'm thirsty for knowledge ... and this is the place to find it indeed

Anthony

Open Road - A Stetson marketing name that was usually applied to a thin ribbon semi-western style fedora. Vintage hats with fancy names were generally the entry level version. If a customer wanted an upscale hat it was generally rebranded with a cost based or an X based name.

Silverbelly - Today it almost exclusively refers to a dyed color. Originally it referred to fur taken exclusively from the belly of a beaver.

15, 20, etc. also a marketing term but directly tied to the price of the hat. A Dobbs Twenty cost $20.

X's are a marketing gimmick. There is no standard for an X. More X's assumes greater quality fur. Aka 7x is better than 3x. The make up of the felt is at the whim of the manufacturer. Thus 3x from the same manufacturer can not be assumed to be the same from year to year. As a general guideline, I equate an X to $5. Thus a 3x hat would be equivalent to a Fifteen.

 

[tommyK]

OR is an Open Road
Silverbelly is a very light beige/silver color (depends on hat make; some are more yellowish some are more greyish)that is common for Open Roads

Stetson Royal Deluxe Open Road 50's

Royal Deluxe was a quality designation one step up from the bottom which was Royal at the time of this hat

 

[viclip]

silverbelly = a light colored hat color, not white as such but ranging from off-white, somewhat silvery, to a very light tan depending upon the manufacturer's choice of shade. An extremely versatile color, silverbelly goes with most outfits, it ranks right up there with dark green in that regard

OR = Open Road

 

[KingAndrew]

The above gentlemen have pretty well covered it. I would only add a couple of small details:

A Dobbs Twenty originally cost $20. Bids may go higher today

Silverbelly was originally the undyed belly furs of a beaver (actually many beavers to make a single hat). Today most silverbelly hats are dyed to a greyish-tannish color. Optimo sells actual undyed beaver belly hats (for $1000) and Matt Deckard has recently posted pics on his Instagram of some new undyed Stetson prototypes. But as far as I know, any other silverbelly hat is just dyed that color.

 

[Mystic]

moontheloon,

When I first came on the Lounge I found the early comments or beginning of threads to be full of useful information that as time went by became common vernacular in threads.

Some of these threads began in 2005-2006 when everyone was sharing and dispensing new found information and knowledge they obtained about all things hats.

These threads contain quite a journey in hats when you start at the beginning and see how it has all come together from guys buying vintage hats and sharing info to other guys interested in vintage hats.....

Take the ride......it will be interesting.

 

[gtdean48]

 

[tonyb]

...

Silverbelly was originally the undyed belly furs of a beaver (actually many beavers to make a single hat). Today most silverbelly hats are dyed to a greyish-tannish color. Optimo sells actual undyed beaver belly hats (for $1000) and Matt Deckard has recently posted pics on his Instagram of some new undyed Stetson prototypes. But as far as I know, any other silverbelly hat is just dyed that color.

That's why I avoid using the term. One maker's "silverbelly" is far from the same color as another maker's. And, knowing the term's origins, it can be argued that it carries a faint whiff of deception. It's not quite the same as calling a nickel-plated doodad "silver," but it kinda bends in that direction.

When we get into the realm of thousand-dollar hats, we had better hope we're dealing with the truly extraordinary. Is a hat body made exclusively from beaver belly fur superior in any meaningful way to one made from fur that came from elsewhere on a beaver? Probably so. Those in a position to know seem to think so. Does that make it worth the additional cost? That's up to the person contemplating the purchase. There was a market for hundred-dollar hats back when perfectly serviceable hats, hats of a quality we bemoan the lack of these day, could be had for a small fraction of that -- 10, 15, 20 bucks. It has me thinking that part of the appeal of such items is their high price.

 

[jlee562]

Dobbs Twenty:


Stetson 100, undyed silverbelly (bottom hat, 3x OR on top):

 

[tommyK]

I've always wondered if the 7XCB or XXXXXXX Clear Beaver is undyed. I know the X's are not always meaningful but Clear Beaver sounds like the good stuff.

 

[tommyK]

Those number designations can be deceiving as well. I have a Stetson 3X Fifteen that is a much nicer felt than my Stetson Sovereign Twenty. The Fifteen is an earlier hat and the 3X trumps the Sovereign in terms of quality.

 

[gtdean48]

If you look at the Miller Catalog thread, earlier 4X were double the price, $30, of a 3X/$15.
Then later you see the 5X CB being just $5 more = $35 with a 7X CB going for $50.
So one X, 3X to 4X is worth $15 but the next X, 4X to 5X CB, is only worth $5, then 2X's, 5X CB to 7X CB, being $15 ??? [huh]
The X confusion is well rooted in Stetson lore....

 

[viclip]

That's why I avoid using the term. One maker's "silverbelly" is far from the same color as another maker's. And, knowing the term's origins, it can be argued that it carries a faint whiff of deception. It's not quite the same as calling a nickel-plated doodad "silver," but it kinda bends in that direction.

When we get into the realm of thousand-dollar hats, we had better hope we're dealing with the truly extraordinary. Is a hat body made exclusively from beaver belly fur superior in any meaningful way to one made from fur that came from elsewhere on a beaver? Probably so. Those in a position to know seem to think so. Does that make it worth the additional cost? That's up to the person contemplating the purchase. There was a market for hundred-dollar hats back when perfectly serviceable hats, hats of a quality we bemoan the lack of these day, could be had for a small fraction of that -- 10, 15, 20 bucks. It has me thinking that part of the appeal of such items is their high price.

With free shipping included, this one is hard to resist:

http://www.rodeowesternwear.net/1m48-diamant1481000.html

Pity I opted for early retirement.

 

[mikespens]

Anthony, here is a useful link that used to be a sticky but was inexplicitly removed at some point:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?52584-Links-To-Important-Hat-Forum-Threads

Here's another:

http://www.hatsuk.com/hatsuk/hatsukhtml/bible/glossary.htm

 

[moontheloon]

cannot thank you enough gentlemen .... all of you

I learned more reading this thread than I have learned about hats in many years of collecting

great pics guys .... really makes me want a nice open road pretty badly

thanks so much everyone .... I feel nourished

 

[tonyb]

With free shipping included, this one is hard to resist:

http://www.rodeowesternwear.net/1m48-diamant1481000.html

Pity I opted for early retirement.

I'll take two, if they'll take a check.

 

[RBH]

Anthony, here is a useful link that used to be a sticky but was inexplicitly removed at some point:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?52584-Links-To-Important-Hat-Forum-Threads

This has been a sticky again for some time.
Kind of goes to show my point that ''most'' do not take notice of the stickies.

 

[-30-]

"I'll take two, if they'll take a check."
tonyb, esq.

Not to worry; it's in the mail; I promise!


Regards,
J T

 

[jlee562]

great pics guys .... really makes me want a nice open road pretty badly

Oh, you need one!

 

[tommyK]

If you're going to collect hats at least one Open Road is a must.